new lifters

Hi,
I just dismantled and assembled back my valve lifters of my 5.7 and i don't know if i have to fill them up with oil or not. If yes how is the method?
Krinad

There is a small hole on the side of each lifter. Get a small oil hand pump or a medium sized syring and hand fill each one or put a quart of oil in a can or bowl or jar and let them sit for 24 hrs in the oil...........mix them up a couple times over the 24 hrs to allow any air to escape....

When filling by hand thru the side oil hole oil will come out the top. continue pushing oil in for a additional 10 seconds.

when installing these lifters it is somewhat important to be ready to set up the valve train rather soon after installing the lifters.


Follow manual for which cylinders/valves to adjust based on harmonic balancer timing mark alignment and adjust each rocker so you just start to feel a small bit of resistance while spinning with thumb and index finger. Then 3/4 to 1 turn more. NO MORE .

This will be sufficient preload on the lifters...........

If any of the rocker nuts are not difficult to turn (requiring a socket) the replace with new ones.

My take on this is quite different.
In my opinion, now is the time that you want the cam followers to be as dry as possible.

Here is why:

But first.......
We are not actually setting valves nor adjusting valve clearance.
What we are doing....., is finding zero valve stem-to-rocker arm lash, and then making the necessary further adjustment as to set the plunger depth within the cam follower body!

The term "setting valves" or "adjusting valves" is a misnomer when it comes to a hydraulic system.

I would recommend that you adjust the depth of the cam follower plungers prior to installing the intake manifold.
Being "dry" (or not yet oil primed) will allow you to compress and operate the cam follower plunger.
While not yet oil primed, the plunger will remain very sensitive to the slightest of pressure.
With the intake manifold not yet installed, you will have clear view of the plunger cups.
The slightest of pressure will allow you to view the plunger cup movement as zero lash has just been achieved.

The rocker stud thread pitch, X's nut revolution, X's rocker arm ratio = plunger depth!
See your OEM specs for this.



Use the 8 stop procedure beginning with #1 cylinder at TDC compression stroke, and do not let anyone talk you out of it!


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I agree with rick. i would add one more thing.i would start with the timing marks lined up for no 1 and run the oil pump with a half inch drill till oil comes out of the push rods then turn crank one turn to line up marks again run drill now all rods should be oiled

That would defeat the purpose of setting the plunger depths prior to oil priming.

Once the plunger depths have all been set, then you can prime with the oil pump (drill motor method) while you use the starter motor to spin the engine over.


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i too agree with riick......

if you didn't mark which bores they came out of - throw em away and spend the $4 each on new ones. However the thread title says "new lifters" and the text says otherwise so I'm confused. Why open new lifters?

I set valves with a compression gauge and a remote start switch, but maybe that's a Canadian thing.

I agree to disagree,,,,,,,,,

I always have primed the lifters first........on a motor such as this...4,6,v6,v8

There are many methods and most all work fine.....

I just reviewed the service manual. NO mention of pre oiled or not.

In fact the adjustment procedure for a running engine confirms my method because the lifters will be pumped up with oil.
The only difference is the rocker is loosened to achieve "clacking" then tightening to no noise which is considered ZERO lash vs tightening the rocker on a non running motor to achieve zero lash (friction on push rod when spinning.

Review your own service manuals and confirm or not...........



Hystat, Good point!!

Kghost, I'm glad that we can agree to disagree.

keep in mind that service manuals are written for average Joe mechanic.
Average Joe may be very sharp, but nonetheless he is not an engineer.


When beginning at Zero lash, stud thread pitch, X's adjustment nut revolution, X's rocker arm ratio = correct plunger depth!
It does not matter whether this is done via a static procedure or a dynamic procedure, the results will be the same.
With a sharp ear, and with valve stems and rocker arm tips that produce an audible "clatter", it's pretty tough to beat the dynamic procedure.
However, it's less messy, and if done correctly, the 8 stop static procedure will rarely cause the need to run back through these dynamically.


As I have suggested, doing this prior to the intake manifold having been installed, and while the cam follower plungers are free to move (in/out..... not yet oiled), we can see the cups as they just begin to move.
While some of you may not agree with me, I see this as a more precision means.

As for the forum, we offer suggestions only.
It's up to the individual member to decide what he wants to do!


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""""""keep in mind that service manuals are written for average Joe mechanic.
Average Joe may be very sharp, but nonetheless he is not an engineer.""""""



I do not agree at all with that statement.........I have the Mercury Manuals and they are written for the professional who work on there product.


I will say that with a harley davidson motor it is specified to allow the lifter to bleed all the oil out before adjustment when using a adjustable push rod as the rockers are not adjustable and the push rod is what is adjusted. I have not completely understood the reasons why.....

From the internet....for Small Block Chevy


Should I "pump up" my lifters with oil before installing them?

Generally speaking, no. The lifters can be dipped into a container of oil but unless the manufacturer's instructions tell you otherwise, there's no need to pump the lifters up before installing them.

There are some exceptions to this. For instance Rhodes lifters DO recommend their "original" lifters be pumped up prior to installing and adjusting them to 3/4 of a turn, or so the lifter cup is about 1/16" below the retainer. The Rhodes "V-Max" lifters are adjusted so the plunger is from 0.010" to 0.030" from being fully compressed- quite different than 'normal' hydraulic lifters are adjusted.


How much preload should I use?

The basic idea is to set the lifter plunger to the center of its travel. That gives the most leeway for temperature expansion/contraction. The amount of turns needed to set the plunger in the middle of its travel will vary from engine to engine because of differences in the thread pitch, rocker ratio, and lifter design.

The old Chevy factory manuals said to use anywhere from 1 to 1-1/2 or more turns after zero lash, but this has largely been replaced by using 1/2 to 1 turn total. For instance, Comp Cams recommends 1/2 turn for regular SBC lifters.

The recommendation given to use 1/2 to 1 turn past zero lash is based on what has been shown to work well on many engines when using stock or most performance hydraulic lifters. However, the amount of preload may be different, depending on the type and brand of hydraulic lifters being used as well as the reasons mentioned above. For example, there are Rhodes lifters that are set using a feeler gauge- something that's traditionally reserved for solid lifters. Always refer to the manufacturer's instructions first before proceeding. If the manufacturer's instructions differ from those given here, follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

I do not agree at all with that statement.........I have the Mercury Manuals and they are written for the professional who work on there product.

Click to expand...

Kghost, my apologies for not being more clear.
I was referring to Average Joe factory trained mechanic...... not necessarily Average Joe backyard/Shadetree mechanic!

Always refer to the manufacturer's instructions first before proceeding. If the manufacturer's instructions differ from those given here, follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Click to expand...

I do agree with that.
However, if an alternate method can be shown and clearly described, and if that alternate method is valid, what would the harm be?

How often do we successfully modify camshaft profiles, or piston selections, or connecting rod lengths, or modify the balancing of the factory rotating assembly, or modify cylinder head runners, valve size, valve spring pressures, and so on......... none of which are described in an OEM factory service manual!!!!


Kghost, I fully agree with your comment that the objective for adjusting hydraulic cam followers, is to place the plunger at it's midway travel distance.

Again, and at the risk of redundancy:
Stud thread pitch X's OEM adjustment nut revolution X's rocker arm ratio = correct plunger depth!
That is the simple formula that the engineers have used to place the plunger correctly!


There are many ways to skin the cat, no question about it!
But the Furrier Dealer will tell you that some Cat Skinners will sell them a better pelt!



None of us appear to have a dog in a fight here, and it just shows that we can agree to disagree without hating each other!
This has been fun and amusing.



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"""Again, and at the risk of redundancy:
Stud thread pitch X's OEM adjustment nut revolution X's rocker arm ratio = correct plunger depth!
That is the simple formula that the engineers have used to place the plunger correctly!""""""""""
I myself fully understand this thread pitch size vs turns equal plunger depth........

What I do not think is needed is this info to "the average joe" who posts here........

if this info is asked for, then fine but to throw this into a simple question and answer post on basic motor work is over the top.


We have all come to the conclusion that you have a fair amout of "technical language knowledge" for describing some of the "engineering" terms regarding common work performed but this type of explanation is way to deep for 99% of posters here and most other places.

If this were a SMALL BLOCK CHEVY PERFORMANCE web site I could understand this type of reply. Especially the piston/timing CHRONIC replies.........

The Harly Davidson web site i frequent has 3 basic pages to post to, One for non motorcycle topics, One for motorcycle non engine or technical topics and one other for chasis, handling, fuel, carb/efi. Also many highly technical posts regarding the nitty gritty on motor components and performance related questions and answers.

Just dont think it should be continually posted here, agian for the average Joe..........KISS..........Keep It Simple Stupid

What I do not think is needed is this info to "the average joe" who posts here........
if this info is asked for, then fine but to throw this into a simple question and answer post on basic motor work is over the top.

Click to expand...

This is post #1.

Hi, I just dismantled and assembled back my valve lifters of my 5.7 and i don't know if i have to fill them up with oil or not. If yes how is the method?
Krinad

Click to expand...

You and I both know that the OP has a choice here.
We can suggest that he leave the cam followers dry (just as they are in the package), or that he can find a way to pre-oil them.
Is he going to question the "why", and/or which method would be preferred???? Quite honestly, I do not know!
But if we explain the pros and cons of either, then he can make an intelligent decision!



Questions:

How are you able to determine the level of technical assistance that the OP is asking for?
How are you able to determine the level of the OP's ability to comprehend?
Are you somehow able to decypher the original question, and assess whether or not it requires a simple answer or a a more complex answer?
Other than your own personal dislikes, what harm is there in presenting a few alternate procedures and detailed explanations?
Is this personal, or do you somehow know that the OP is NOT welcoming this additional information?

I'm asking you these questions honestly and sincerely!


The typical questions that are asked here in this forum, are technical questions.
It's fair to assume that the OP is capable of taking on the task.
Offering good, sound and accurate information is important.
If it spills into "more info than asked for", what is the penalty?

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""Questions:

How are you able to determine the level of technical assistance that the OP is asking for?

99% are simple boat owners looking for simple answers to questons.


How are you able to determine the level of the OP's ability to comprehend?

99% are simple boat owners looking for simple answers to questions.

Are you somehow able to decypher the original question, and assess whether or not it requires a simple answer or a a more complex answer?

99% are simple boat owners looking for simple answers to questions.


Other than your own personal dislikes, what harm is there in presenting a few alternate procedures and detailed explanations?


99% are simple boat owners looking for simple answers to questions.


Is this personal, or do you somehow know that the OP is NOT welcoming this additional information?


99% are simple boat owners looking for simple answers to questions.


I'm asking you these questions honestly and sincerely!


The typical questions that are asked here in this forum, are technical questions.
It's fair to assume that the OP is capable of taking on the task.

No it is not fair. most understand the basics and not the engineering or highly technical jargon I am sure if they wanted the engineering or highly technical answer they would ask for it.

Offering good, sound and accurate information is important.

Yes that is true, BUT keep it simple simple and even more simple (example....3/4 to 1 turn (easy to understand) vs 7/16 x 20 tpi and X amount of turns will give a Y equivilant of plunger depth based on a Z rocker arm ratio ( greek to 99%)


If it spills into "more info than asked for", what is the penalty?


To speak to this specific topic of valve lifters, Not even the factory service manual refers to rocker arm stud thread size vs thread per inch equating to turns to aquire correct prelaod depth...........It simply states 3/4 to 1 turn

Again KISS keep it simple stupid

Unless you own a crystal ball, the comments "99% are simple boat owners looking for simple answers to questions" ....... and "greek to 99%" ...., are your opinions only.

Bottom line........ you and I simply continue to agree to disagree!
Would you consider that to be a fair statement?


All that we can do on a forum, is to make suggestions.
We do this to the best of our ability and with the OP's best interest in mind!
It's entirely up to the OP as to what he or she decides to do.



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Hi,
Thanks for the various replies. I am quite able to conclude by myself now which is the best method as although it's the first time i completely dismantled my 5.7 i know accurately what you mean by the term rocker arm ratio. stud TPI and how to calculate it as i tuned various engines from toyota celica gt4, glanza's, GT's and Ford Zetec's up to 500bhp but never had this problem. And yes, the manual does not state which method to use, instead simply say put them in their original location and that's all. My conclusion is to set the lifter in mid position and prime the system with oil to fill em up. And another method to set them mid position is by means of a dial gauge placed on the valve retainer. Anyway i guess you all know this method as you're not average joe's. Thanks guys.