1972 Johnson 65hp.

Mainly just wanting to say hello as of right now. Found this forum through Google. I've got '72 Starcraft Jupiter with a '72 Johnson 65hp outboard. Just got done doing a little maintenance to it as it's been in the salt a good bit this year.

Yanked all three carbs and pulled the bowls. Squeaky clean and no debris. Checked the floats and needle and seats. All seems well. Also pulled the screen filter and sprayed it out with carb cleaner. Just a very small amount of debris.

Also drained the lower unit. Got a good bit of discolored oil. Couldn't tell for sure if it was metal or water I was seeing. I need to eventually take the L/U apart as I've had some issues with my reverse gear. Think I broke something in there as it will occasionally slip if I give it too much reverse throttle. I'm hesitant to take it apart as I've never done that before. I do have a repair manual that covers it, though it covers a LOT of Johnson engines. I refilled it with type C oil pumped in from the bottom until it flowed out the top.

Put it mostly back together so I could give it a test fire. (It's been hard to start recently) It wouldn't turn over. I thought that maybe it was neutral safety issue, but again, I'm in pretty unfamiliar territory here (I'm a heavy diesel mechanic). Not running, it's locked in forward which I believe is normal. I have not done a compression test yet as I don't have a compression tester at the house and I have to get it to crank to test compression anyways. Once it failed to crank, I just closed everything up and called it a night. It's sitting on the trickle charger overnight. I do have the throttle cable removed. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.

I love this boat and look forward to learning more and more about how to maintain it from the folks here at this forum. From some of the posts I've read, there's a LOT of experienced marine mechanics on here. I welcome all advice. Keep in mind that I do understand the basics of a two stroke with reeds instead of ports, but I am a bit out of my element and may need you to break it down Barney style from time to time.

That's it for now.

If it helps to know, the model is a 65ESL72. I just found an actual service manual for THIS motor. I can almost hear the angels singing. Currently I have the Clymer (sp?) manual which is good, but is a lot like a Haynes manual which I hate.

Hopefully, this will help keep me from seeming too uneducated when I hear you all talking about power packs (are these coils?) and such that I have no clue of. When you say that to me, I think of a tank engine and transmission assembly that gets easily pulled from the hull of the tank as one unit for any sort of serious maintenance.

While I'm waiting on my new service manual to arrive, Are there any special tools that I'll need to disassemble the lower unit and inspect it for damage? What about a stand to attach the the lower unit to? Is there something I can easily construct? I do have a bench vise that i could block the L/U in with wood.

I will probably wait a bit to actually start on this as I have a fishing trip scheduled in a week and half to go CPR some white sturgeon.

Once I get home from work, I'll see if I can get the motor to crank over while I've still got a bit of daylight left. Then I can make sure she's still running properly. Might even put her in the Puget sound to make sure she's revving properly under a load. If I don't have time for that today, I will do that tomorrow.

Well for one thing your motor has reed valves for intake into the crankcase AND lots of ports cast into the cylinders.----Powerpack is the term often used for the ignition module / black box / cdi unit.-----The manual will be needed here.

(Slow Acting Electric Starter)
(J. Reeves)

Remove the spark plug boot connectors from the spark plugs to prevent the engine from starting.

To test the starter, having a good known battery which is fully charged, run good known jumper cables directly to the electric starter. If that causes the starter to engage the flywheel and crank the engine in a normal fashion, then obviously the electric starter is okay.

If the starter armature is spinning (you'd see the top nut turning) but the gear is not, that would indicate a faulty bendix gear assembly, in which case, replace it. The bendix gear contains a clutch of sorts.... when that clutch fails, the starter armature turns within the bendix gear and the gear stays stationary.


If the starter armature IS NOT turning but rather the gear and also the top nut is simply sitting there with the key in the START position..... before going into the replace the starter bit, do the following to eliminate any possible voltage drop problem.


First make absolutely sure that you have a known good battery and that it is fully charged.


Now, remove all cables and wires associated with ther electric starter system, clean the end terminals thoroughly and also the components that those terminals attach to. This includes the battery terminals themselves, the starter solenoid terminals, the connection at the starter, and the ground terminal at the powerhead. When this procedure is completed, should you still have the same problem, grab hold of the main battery cables, one at a time, feeling the cable from the battery to its attachment completion. A hot cable indicates that the cable is either corroded internally or has a bad terminal connection close by.


Tapping on those electric starters with a hammer or whatever? Be extremely careful as the field cores in those starters are solid one piece components that can and will break. Once broke, the starter is useless... $$$$!
****************

(Slow Cranking Engine)
(J. Reeves)

Assuming the battery is good and fuilly charged. Slow cranking can be the result of a loose cable OR a tight but dirty cable connection OR a failing starter. Do not assume that any connection is okay and bypass it! Remove, clean thoroughly, and retighten all cables and wires related to there starting system. This includes the battery terminals themselves, the ground cable at the powerhead, the starter solenoid connections, and of course the electric starter terminal stud itself.

With the engine cranking in the slow condition, feel the cables (all of them) from one end to the other. A hot cable at any one area indicates that the a loose connection exists close to that hot spot OR a internal portion of the cable is failing due to corrosion etc.

A electric starter that becomes very hot within a few seconds of cranking (15 to 20 seconds) usually indicates that something is amiss with the starter and it should be torn down for inspection. Cranking the starter for an extended length of time can (and usually does) result in having the armature winding connections melt down.

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Racerone, I'm well aware of the exhaust ports in my cylinders. I was alluding to the difference between a two-stroke diesel which has intake ports and exhaust valves vs a small fuel-lubricated two stroke which has reed valve intakes and exhaust ports.
I figured that was what a powerpack was, but I appreciate the clarification as I wasn't positive. I'm sure I will run into quite few other terms that I will not understand and have to ask for clarification.

Mr Reeves,

The boat has a large AGM deep cycle which was purchased in Aug 2013 and I maintain it with a trickle charger due to their 12 month discharge shelf-life. It still load tests as good and maintains 12.4VDC. I do need to take all the accessory and starting wires off to clean up all the leads. I haven't done much troubleshooting as I'm working in my driveway and my kerosene heater isn't quite effective enough and I don't feel like setting up my work lights on a weeknight. I have not even checked for continuity or voltage presence at the soleniod or starter. I will be doing that this evening when I get home from work. I literally just put it all back together, turned the key, got nothing and called it a night.

I appreciate your insight. Hopefully this evening, once I get home and run some tests, I will have more information to help clarify the situation.

OK so you mention exhaust ports for your motor.--------The cylinder has intake AND exhaust ports cast right in.--Reed valves are no where near the cylinders.

Roger. The reeds are on the opposite side of the crank correct? Hence the fuel/oil mix acting as a lubricant prior to it acting as a fuel. It then goes into the cylinder through the intake ports located in one end of the cylinder. The piston skirt acts as a valve. Am I correct? I've never had one of these torn down to a bare block. The only two strokes I've ever tore down that far were V92 Detroits. They're a totally different animal though.

Intake ports are located on the side of the cylinder, not on the bottom or end of the cylinder.----They are opened by the piston after the exhaust ports are opened by the piston.

OK, running out of time to mess with it, but I have ruled out the battery and the starter. I pulled the leads off of the battery and cleaned them up with a wire brush. Did the same for the hot lead going to the starter.

The battery hasn't been on the charger since I took it off this morning. It was putting (after I hooked everything back together and keyed the ignition to run) 12.8VDC to the starter solenoid. Turning the switch over to start does not crank the engine though. I did jump the solenoid very briefly and the engine cranked smoothly.

I do not know that the ignition switch is ok, or any sort of neutral safety or throttle switch that it may or may not have, I do not know that solenoid is good (have not pulled it and run the pin continuity tests). I have also not ruled out wire corrosion or breaks.

As I get time, I will check the ignition switch and make sure that it is passing voltage properly and I will check continuity and signal switching the solenoid.

Another issue that I've noticed but haven't talked about yet is that my throttle is very stiff. The cable and control operate smoothly, the actual throttle on the engine seems to be causing all of this. Is there a certain way to lubricate this?

I appreciate your input Racerone or Mr Reeves or anyone else that may be able to spread a bit more insight while I'm waiting on the service manual to arrive.

If the electric starter doesn't crank the engine at all via the ignition switch.... possibly the safety switch is either flawed or the throttle is advanced too far which would disengage it.

Turning the key to the START position should have 12 volts flowing to one of the 3/8" nut terminals of the starter solenoid... with the wire from the remaning 3/8" nut terminal running to the safety switch which must be grounded in order to activate the solenoid.

Thanks. That's good to know. Is the throttle safety the plunger activated switch on the the throttle arm? I ASSUME it must be depressed to start?

I do have 12VDC at the one large lug on the solenoid. I'm away from the house to make sure that I'm getting 12V and a ground at the safety which I have not yet located.

The safety switch is located in the control box.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Thanks for the info. I'll check out seawaymarine.com. I found the type C oil I needed at South Sound Marine across from the Airport in Tumwater. I really appreciate the graphic with the schematic. That may come in handy here tomorrow when I've got more time to dig into this motor.

On your second post with the link for replacing a power pack; is the power pack not the coils then but that long thing on the right side of the engine that looks like a bus bar? Is it supposed to have a cover? Mine does not and never has had a cover since I got the boat three years ago.

Lastly, VOM? Are you referring to a multimeter? I have a digital multimeter. I just want to make sure I'm on the same page here.

Again, thanks all for your help.

''Not running, it's locked in forward which I believe is normal.''..this is in your original entry..this is not normal...is the control arm that is on or near your console locked in forward?...if so the motor will never turn over with he key..it must be in neutral...thats where the safety switch is located....

No, the control is in neutral, the motor in forward. The motor won't go into neutral unless it cranks. That's normal for this type of hydro electric motor from what I've read.

The hydro-electric drive is in forward when the motor is not running !-----If it does NOT go into forward when the motor stops , then there is something wrong.

Yeah, that's what I had read. It only stayed in gear for a very brief moment when I jumped the solenoid yesterday. I've got a good deal of troubleshooting to do today after work.
For the neutral safety switch, if the control lever is in neutral, I should have continuity across the switch, is that correct?

Another question while I'm thinking of it. What size and material is best for the fuel supply lines and the carb fuel lines? I also need to replace the vacuum line that goes into the air intake. My main fuel supply line has a bit of a crack in it. Rather than trim it, I'd like to replace them all as I have no idea how old they are.

The carb lines I replaced a few months back when I brought the boat up from Ohio. Had a hard time finding a fuel line size that matched and an even hard time finding a clamp for them. My fuel line tore on the #3 carb when I took it off. Rather than just going to get more of what I used last time, is there something more preferred for two stroke fuel? Is it supposed to be 1/4" ID?

Yes, continuity across the safety switch when in neutral.

Alrighty then. Pulled the control off and took the cover off. Turns out the neutral safety switch was frozen. Got it unstuck and working properly. The boat cranks now. Now I'm going to see how easy she'll start up in this 30 degree weather.

I really do appreciate all of the advice I've gotten so far from everyone. I still need to pick up a compression gauge. What's normal for these motors? 110-120psi?

The safety switch is where I said it is...... follow the ground wire from the 3/8" nut terminal of the starter solenoid to the safety switch which will be found attached to the powerhead at the vertical throttle/timer base lever.

It is not inside the control box on the 1972 model.

Yes, I saw that switch also. The one that was keeping it from starting was in the control/throttle box though. Once I put it where it needed to be, the boat cranked fine.

Ok. Just got home with a comp tester. I'll start yanking plugs here in a bit.

zmany2k said:

Yes, I saw that switch also. The one that was keeping it from starting was in the control/throttle box though. Once I put it where it needed to be, the boat cranked fine.

Click to expand...

Strange.... The 1972 control box does not incorporate a safety switch within that box. No matter... if you got it cranking, that's what counts.

If I can figure out how to add photos, I can show you a picture of what I'm talking about. It's definitely a neutral safety. Maybe it's something that Starcraft did.

Must have some other kind of control.

Alrighty. Got it running before I yanked the plugs and tested the compression numbers. Was only running on two cylinders.

When I pulled the plugs, there was a good deal of salt build up on the #1 spark plug. Wasn't sure what it was and was praying it wasn't salt. Scraped it out and tasted it. It's salt for sure.

I assume this motor flows water through water jackets just like a normal engine does with coolant right? I assume this means I've got a leaking head gasket. I do have pretty decent compression in that cylinder though. The numbers are as follows:

Cylinder one: 119psi
Cylinder two: 115psi
Cylinder three: 130psi

How long does it take to do a head gasket on one of these? Keep in mind that I've never separated a lower unit from a motor or pulled a motor from it's mount in an outboard. (Have pulled a 302 out of a 20' bayliner, but that's an in/outboard) I'm still waiting on my service manual to show up. I ordered earlier this week on the same day I joined. Are there any special tools I'll need for this?

Spark was great on all but the fouled plug. Swapping a good plug onto that coil produced a great spark.

Can I swap the head without pulling the motor out?