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BF130 hard to start.

Mike,

I found the 3 pin connector you mentioned with the correct colors, but could not get a reading off them. Nothing when I turned the key on and nothing when I crossed the red plug. If there are any codes, are they stored on the ECM? If so, couldn't I just hook that ECM to the other motor, the one with the pgm light and check it that way?

If there are no codes, any suggestions on what to check next?

thank you
 
Yes, you can probably check for codes by swapping. However, once you find the codes and write them down, you should erase them and then see what reappears...if anything.

If you pulled a connector off of the engine while it was running and then put it back, it will throw a code and store it...even though nothing is wrong once you put it back.

Make sure you are using just a simple test light with a 12v bulb....or you could use a dc voltmeter in lieu of a test light. Check for 12v on the Yellow/Black lead. So test from yellow/black to a good ground. I am not sure if it is there all the time or just when the key switch is turned on. That lead comes from the connector that plugs into the alternator.

I am just thinking if there are any corroded connectors, etc or a problem in your wiring harness. It is possible, although, no very likely, that it could be causing your starting problem.

The solution to your problem will probably be something very simple (once you find it). You just have to be suspicious of everything.

Once you get past the warning light issue, I would go for the valve clearances.
Intake clearance - .24mm - .28mm
Exhaust clearance - .28mm - .32mm

Torque for adjusting lock nut is 14 ft-lb

Mike
 
I'm sure it's the right pin. It's located right behind the 14 pin plug. I traced the one back from the other motor with the pgm light and its plugged into that one. Its got the red/blue and yellow/black keads.
 
3 is the map sensor
6 is ECT sensor
8 is pulse coil sensor
4 is also a pulse coil sensor However, you said that the first one was long. A long "one" would represent a 1 in the number 14, as an example. There is no 13 code but there is a 14 which is IAC valve.

These codes indicate a disconnected, shorted or open circuit or a faulty sensor.

So now you need to clear the codes and see what you really have. Do you know how to clear them?

If not, where you connect your safety landyard...is there a red button to push that will stop the engine or does the safety landyard hold the button down?

Mike
 
Not sure where it went, but I posted earlier I retrieved some codes from the motor. I got 3, 6, 8, and 4. The 4 may have been the sequence repeating itself as the first flash was longer. Anyone know where i can look those codes up?

Thank you
 
That code is for pulser coil #2. The coils are on either side of the crank on the top of the engine. Before you go trying to change them, do some testing.

Just above the ECM is a round 4 pin connector. Two of the leads are a green/white and a brown/red. Check the resistance between these leads. The resistance should be between 970 and 1170 ohms. If out of that range, the manual says to change the sensors. They are changed as a set of two.

If the resistance checks out ok. Then measure the resistance between either lead and a good engine ground. This should read as an open circuit. If you are getting any resistance, then the coil has a short to ground and should be replaced.

If all that is good....check for any corrosion or bad connection at the connector.

The green/white goes to terminal 12 on the ECM. The brown/red goes to terminal 21 on the ECM.

If all the above checks out....go to the ECM and find the connector that the two leads go to. Disconnect it from the ECM and check the resistance between the two leads at that point....checking to be sure that continuity goes all the way to the ECM. Also, check each lead to ground to check for any resistance to ground (there should be none).

And to answer your question, this could affect starting. These sensors provide the basic timing for the engine.

Mike
 
My colors were slightly different, I don't have a green/white. This is on the large round 4 pin connector direct above the ECM. However, the greatest resistance I could get was 904. I didn't get any resistance between any of them and the ground. I assume the next step is to replace as it falls outside the specs you gave me? Keeping in mind temp is 10 degrees at the moment. Not sure what that effect on the number would be.

Thanks
 
Ok, after further testing both motors have compatible resistance. They are within 2 ohm of each other. I also tested the rest of the connections to ground and get a zero reading on all of them. All connections are clean and show no corrosion. Should I go ahead and swap it out anyway? Is there something else to check first or is there another cause for this code. The other motor with the same resistance reading has no engine code and fires right up.

thanks again
 
Cold will lower resistance.

Did you check all the way to the ECM?

Erase the code and try again before changing anything....I don't think they are that easy to change.

Mike
 
I still get the same code. Even with starting fluid is takes 10-15 seconds of cranking to get it to fire, then it will start and die a half dozen times before running.

I'll double check, but traced it back to the ECM and got 0 resistance. I also checked the parts motor for the fun of it and all 3 motors show almost identicle ohm's. is it possible for it to read correct ohm and still be bad? Could anything else trigger this code, timing or anything?? Like I stated earlier I'm not sure how to set timing on this motor, but the timing marks did match between the 2 motors.

thanks again
 
So, if you connect the sensors back up and measure the resistance at the ECM connector, you get zero ohms?

You should get the 904 ohms or so that you got at the round connector. You should get zero ohms to ground.

It is possible that the sensor is faulty. But I do not know how to tell you how to check for sure.

The troubleshooting guide for code 8 reads "

- Loosely connected or disconnected pulser coil sensor connector.
- Short or open circuit in pulser coil sensor 2 wire
- Faulty pulser coil sensor 2

The flow chart indicates that if resistance is good all the way to the ECM and no shorts to ground, then replace the ECM with a known good ECM. I think you said you already did that.

One thing that maybe you could do is compare the output of it compared to that of your good engine.
I do not know what the output should be but the output should probably be very low. You might need a peak reading voltmeter for this. But if you can get a reading off of the good one first, even with a standard meter, you will have a reference voltage to compare.

I don't want to suggest you do more work than you have to....we may be chasing a ghost here. Sometimes, it just comes down to changing out the part to find out for sure. Fortunately, you have spare parts at hand. I should take about an hour or so to do it....that can be a long time in the cold.

Mike
 
Haha...yeah an hour at -10 working on bare metal is a bit cold on the fingers. Maybe it'll warm up a little more today. I did goof up and tested resistance to ECM with the sensor unplugged. Guess that's what happens hurrying in the cold. I will check again. I did test with another ECM and got the same starting condition.

When you say to test the output, I'm assuming you mean test it while the engine turns over?

If all else fails I don't mind swapping it out if that's the only way to be sure. Like you said I've got the parts, its more of knowing what to check and the know how to do it. I appreciate the time and thought you've put into this. Definitely the most knowledgable person I've found on these 130's.
 
Thanks for the accolades, but it is not fixed yet!

Yes, test the output while cranking.

Besides the output, we want to be sure that the circuit is good all the way to the ECM.

I know what you mean about the cold...it is finally going to get to above freezing, here, tomorrow. Lucky me.... gets to go the the River tomorrow to work on a couple of 90's on a workboat that went under water. Hope it is at least sunny.

Mike
 
Sorry, looks like my last message didn't post. I hope the weather cooperated for you on those 90's.

i connected the plug and got the same reading all the way to the ECM. I swapped the ECM again, but still would not start. Next, I checked the reading from the plug while cranking and it jumps all over from 400-1700. I checked the other motor and the reading was identicle, 400-1700. I cleared the codes again and still get the same one: 8.

decided to swap out pulsars anyway just to eliminate it, but looks like you have to remove the crank pulley to access the screws. Any trick to removing it? Or is it even worth perusing the pulsar itself since I get the same readings as the other motor? Could there be another ground or anything I'm overlooking?

thanls
 
Both wires from the sensor go to the ECM, so there should not be any other ground.

As far as not pursuing the pulsars....the code is coming from somewhere and it is indicating a problem....but it may not be "the problem". I do not want you to get hung up on this if it is not the problem but that decision is your call....you are there and I am sitting in a nice warm room.

The trick to removing the crank pulley is to have the right tool. LOL There is a holding tool with a very long handle (07MAB-PY3010A holder and 07MAB-001020A handle). Maybe your friend at the dealership will loan it to you.

The nut is very tight. It is torqued to 181 ft-lb.

One alternative may be to remove the starter and insert a locking tool (07WPB-ZW50100) or similar device Into the flywheel and lock it in place. It is not the recommended way, but I do remember doing it that way years ago, before we had the correct tool.

Mike
 
If you can think of something else to Perdue, I'll gladly go that route before removing the crank pulley, just not sure what else would cause that code. Otherwise, I'll go bug honda and see if I can borrow their tool.
 
The only thing that seems questionable is your measurement of the output of the sensor. Your meter, obviously, can not read it accurately.

Since you can measure the resistance of the sensor all the way to the ECM and no leads have any short to ground...I do not know of anything else.

Hopefully, someone else will jump in with magic answer.

Trying not to have tunnel vision on the sensor....

We still have valve adjustments on the hit list. They will not cause the #8 code to be set.

Mike
 
Been following this thread. One off-the-wall thought – I think that the 130 has a vacuumactivated fuel pressure regulator. If that is failing, or thevacuum line is leaking, couldn’t that cause the hard start problem you arediscussing?

 
Mike, your the man! Changed the pulsar sensor and she fires right up. Everything was intact and in good shape, just had an 1/8 line of corrosion across it. If you ever make it to Alaska look me up, I run a charter service and will gladly get you out fishing.

Not a hard job with the correct tool, but very tough without it. If anyone's looking for one Oreillys has it on their free tool rental list.

thank again Mike
 
Wow! That's great! I would have never thought of O Reillys having it. I just googled their tool list and there it was... on the front page.

You took quite a journey around your engine. Now you are the expert.

May the fishing gods smile down on you and fill your boat to the max. I do not see how you are able to fish in that cold weather.....while I sit in this warm room.....

It was a pleasure working with you.

Mike
 
I really wish I found this thread earlier.. I have the exact same problem with one of my twin bf 130s. I have swapped just about everthing except the pulsar sensor. If this works I am going to cry tears of joy.
 
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