Honda BF50AY "NO SPARK" problem

Thanks Matt for the info on Rydlyme.

Thanks Mike for the info on the coils. I certainly do appreciate the extra effort. I hope to keep this boat/motor for several more years unless I decide to go bigger so am pretty much sticking to new Honda parts as much as possible. That's why I asked about swapping the coils. Ordered a #3 since it has the longest lead wire and will also give me a known good spare.

Thanks Guys,
Bob

Thanks Matt for info on Rydlyme. I see there is also a Rydlyme Marine. Haven't checked to see what the difference is yet. I'm sure the one that says Marine will cost more though

Thanks Mike for the coil info. Certainly appreciate the extra effort. Decided to buy a new #3 coil since it has the longest spark plug wire. I want to try to keep this as close to new as I can. Hope to have it awhile unless I decide to go bigger, but it's a very economical engine so I can go out a lot more often, just not as fast as the others.

Sorry guys, didn't see my first reply.

Mike,

Service manual says turn the idle screw in or out for max rpm at 950 rpm and adjust idle stop screw to maintain 950 rpm. Carb manual says turn it in until it starts to drop out, count turns & turn it out until it starts to drop out and set it in the middle.

Which one is the best method?

They are both basically the same. The Carb manual just gets very specific on the method.

I generally, turn the screw out to the initial setting....1 turn out for your carbs.

Once the engine is warmed up, I turn the screw in a 1/8 turn at a time and watch the speed. If it goes up (which it generally does not), I keep going until it drops off. I note how far I went and then go back to initial setting and turn the screw the other way until it drops off. Then pick the middle.

Then I quickly accelerate the motor to see how it takes fuel and see if it sneezes or pops. If it does not accelerate very well, I back each screw out about 1/8 turn and try the acceleration again.

Keep doing this until the motor idles and accelerates well with not sneezing or popping.

Bottom line, unless there is something going on in the carbs, setting it at the initial setting and backing it out about 1/8th turn usually does it on the older Hondas.

For others who are reading this post.....on the newer carbs that have the bystarter on them, the initial setting is generally where it will work the best....of course there are always exceptions.

Of course, these adjustments should ideally be made in the water, although, I generally do them on a hose, then take the boat to the water to make final adjustments running under load.

Mike

One last thing....once the adjustments are made at 950 rpm, I like to set the final idle to more like 990. I personally think the 50HP runs a little smoother that way. I go to 1000 if it is going to be used in cold weather, like for duck hunting.

Since you are doing all the work yourself, you can always readjust at a later time if you do not like how it is idling.

Mike,

Dropped the lower unit and you were right about the impeller pieces. The impeller is actually in very good condition. Those pieces have been floating around in there for at least the past year that I've had the boat. No telling how long they've been in there and the one sitting in the bottom of the water jacket was a decent size piece. Too late and too dark to do anything else. Will back flush the motor tomorrow when I can see everything and hope the idle screws show up for the BC carbs, but I probably won't see them until Monday. Gives me time to take it slow and make sure I go over everything else.

Bob

Just remembered. I also have parts on order to change the water joint and water flow indicator hose to the newer style they went to in 2004. Why did they enlarge the motor fitting and hose but keep the same size outlet? I'm guessing I should use Hondabond HT on the threads for the water joint.

What is the purpose of the black tube in front of shift rod b in the lower unit? What's the easiest way to break the gear case end nut loose? I have the Honda 62mm lock nut wrench but haven't been able to break it loose yet. The removal procedure says to grease the threads on the end nut and the installation procedure says to apply Threebond 1211 to the threads. I read another post somewhere that said the end nut should be removed and greased twice a year. What's right?

The black tube is for hooking up a speedometer to your motor. There is a small hole in the front of the nose of your lower unit, which picks up the water pressure as you move.

By end nut, are you referring to the big nut holding the prop shaft holder into the lower unit? You have invested some bucks in Honda tools, haven't you?

If so, personally, I would leave it alone unless you have water in or problems with your lower unit. It does have a locking tab behind it that locks it in place. If you run this in salt water, I have heard that it is almost impossible to remove with the tool.

I suppose, if you remove it twice a year (which I have never heard of), it would be easy to take off if you really had to.

Soaking with PBblaster and using tool on an impact gun sometimes works. Adding heat....heat, let cool, heat let cool.etc might help. Once you use heat, you are probably commited to removing the prop shaft holder and resealing.

I have heard of many cases of having to using a chisel and carving the nut out. Even being in a fresh water area, I had to do that a couple of times.

Once again, unless you have a problem with that area of the lower unit, I would leave it alone. You may cause more problems than you care to deal with at this point.

Mike

Regarding the impeller pieces....make sure you also check under the water pump and down in the water pick up area. Pieces will fall down there.

I do not know why they changed hose sizes. I am sure any heat resistance sealer is ok for the water joint going into the block.

Mike

Thanks Again !! Will take your advice and leave the end nut alone. I know about the lock washer tabs. I unlocked the tabs, but couldn't budge the nut in either direction and didn't want to take a chance of damaging anything else since I couldn't find anything that said one way or the other if it was a right-hand or left-hand thread. Don't really need any extra work anyway.

Someone had written in another forum that the end nut holding the propeller shaft in place should be removed and greased periodically because it's the weak link in the BF50 and has been known to crack the lower unit case. They said the nut should be removed, clean the threads on the nut and lower unit case, grease and reinstall the nut. That was back when I was searching everything I could find on the BF50 before I found this forum and settled here.

Will definitely check under the water pump/impeller. Hadn't thought of that.

I probably could have taken this to a real mechanic for what I've spent on test equipment, tools, parts and miscellaneous already. But my wife wants to move back to Missouri when I retire and there aren't very many marine mechanics around there. I'm sure even if I don't have this boat, I'll have another, so it's time I learned how to maintain it. That, and I've actually liked learning everything I have so far, with your help. I've already been from cover to cover on the service and carb manuals, but experience is the real teacher.

Thanks again teach !!
Bob

I did not find any more impeller pieces anywhere. When I bought the boat it had a box with about 80% of the water pump parts with it. When I found pieces of the impeller in the motor, I ordered the couple odds and ends to make a complete water pump so now it's 100% new from top to bottom. Did get some more parts today but still waiting for the idle screws for the BC carbs.

Can't wait to get it running again and get back out on the water.

Does the service manual always tell you when a sealer should be used on any of the gaskets?

Generally, it does. If referring to water pump gaskets....no sealer.

There is always an exception, like if the surfaces are really corroded and rough. Only a very light coat should be used. OMC gasket sealer or equivalant works well in those cases.

Mike

Should have mentioned it but was wondering about the water jacket packing seal/o-ring and thermostat gasket.

Bob

Same answer. Generally, you should not need any sealer with o rings or thermostat gaskets, however, those surfaces do get rather rough and pitted, so you just have to use your best judgement, since you are the one there and looking at it.

Just remember, more sealer is not necessarily better. Just enough to smooth things out and seal good without oozing out into the orifices.

Mike

Finally got it running. Rebuilt the carbs, sort of. They have the original bodies and floats but that's it. Also replaced the thermostat. Synced the carbs and they're all running at 9-10 +/- 0.5 inHg, at an idle speed around 990 RPM. I'm not 100% sure they're exactly where they need to be since it's the first time I've done it. Accelerates and decels ok. Sounds good to hear it running again. Probably should go through all the linkage adjustments and diaphragm setting but will take it out for a test run tomorrow and see how it runs under load first.

Bob

It does not matter what the values are. You are just trying to get #1 and #2 to match whatever #3 is.

An easy way to make sure the diaphragm is set correctly is to adjust the gap at the cam so you can just see light through the gap. Then you are good to go.

Sounds like you are ready to go.....have fun!

Mike

First off, MANY THANKS TO HONDADUDE for hanging in there and giving me advice throughout this endeavor. It has been a long journey and needless to say I've learned a lot and will take extra good care of this motor.

Couldn't wait any longer, so took it for a short test run this morning in the wind and chop and everything checked good for a change. WOT was about 5500-5600 with an 11-1/8 x 13 prop which I figure is pretty good since I've added about 300 Lbs to the boat with trolling motor, batteries, anchor, cast net, etc.

I did have to bump up the idle stop screw this morning about 50-100 RPM according to the boat tach which is pretty accurate. It was running at about 900 RPM when I started it this morning. I set it at 990 RPM yesterday with a digital tach after adjusting the carbs and ran it for at least an hour while monitoring the sync gauges and tweaking the adjustments. I have not sealed any of the adjustment screws yet in case anything had to be tweaked again.

I know the temperature switch will alarm at 194 degrees. Do you know if they make a temperature sensor that could be installed in place of the switch, and be connected to a NMEA network for real time temperature monitoring? It probably isn't really needed but my original thermostat was stuck so I'm curious.

I'm running REC90 gas with Stabil marine fuel stabilizer in the fuel tank right now and want to switch to Yamalube Ring Free Plus. Do I have to burn off all the gas in the fuel tank before I start mixing ring free with the fuel I add to the tank?

Back to decarbonizng the motor: You mentioned spraying CRC or Evinrude Engine Tuner directly into the intake manifold thru the sync tubes. Do you alternate back and forth between the three carbs until the can is gone? How long do you let the engine sit before you take it out and run it hard?

Thanks Again for helping me bring my motor back to life !!! I was a little anxious when I reinstalled the carbs but it all went well.

Bob

Congratulations on surviving your quest. Sounds like you did good!

I know of no replacement for the temperature switch. i would not replace it....it provides the signal to the ECM to sound the audible alert and put the engine into safe mode if there is an overheat.

I did do a quick search for an NMEA temp sensor and came up with one made by Lowrance. http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/NMEA-2000/EP-80R-Temp-en-us.aspx

It looks like you could attach it under a bolt on the head. Possibly on of the bolts for the thermostat cover. That way you could leave the temp switch in and get your temperature reading at the same time.

I am no chemist, but I see no reason to delay putting the Ring Free in your tank. Others may have a different opinion.

Yes, I alternate between the sync tubes, opening the tube up as I need to shoot the tuner into it. If you leave all the tubes open, the motor will not run.

Follow the instructions on the can. Different manufacturers have different times.

Make sure the engine is warmed up.....you will find that the engine will smoke like crazy....that is good.

Remember, when you are finished with your process....change the oil....it will be diluted.

Mike

That reminds me. The manual says 5W-30 for my motor oil but I can only find 10W-40 at all the dealers I've been too locally. Can I run the 10W-40 in the warmer weather here or should I find the 5W-30 oil?

I wouldn't think twice about it with a car engine so maybe I'm just being over cautious now.

Bob

Sorry, One other question about the spark test in the manual. It never mentions grounding the other two disconnected spark plug wires. I've read where people say ground them to prevent damaging the ignition coils and others say it doesn't matter. What's your opinion?

Bob

Can you find 10w30? Try an auto parts store. As long as it is mineral based and at least an SG, SH, SJ or higher rating, you should be ok.

I have not had a problem either way.

Mike