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  1. #1
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    Default electric choke hook up

    I have a boat with duel stations ( fly brige)) the engines are 1973 chyslers 440s, I am going to install new elderbrocks.Where is the best place to get positive power for the choke? Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by donsense View Post
    I have a boat with duel stations ( fly brige)) the engines are 1973 chyslers 440s, I am going to install new elderbrocks.Where is the best place to get positive power for the choke? Thanks
    In my opinion, the easiest place to get power is the coil. Keep in mind that you won't get 12V there (more like 9V), and some will say that the power isn't sufficient to heat the choke thermostat. Keep in mind that I've seen several electric choke installs where the coil was used for power, and all of them functioned properly.

    The slightly reduced power probably means an extra 2 minutes before the choke is fully open. Not an issue in my opinion. If I installed electric chokes on my motors I would have no problem using the coil.

    Thanks,
    -JJ

  3. #3
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    i disagree with getting power from the coil. period.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  4. #4
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    I used the wire going to the ballast resistor. Its a full 12 volts.

    Jeff

  5. #5
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    i disagree with getting power from the coil. period.
    I'd be interested to hear why you feel so strongly about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by fastjeff View Post
    I used the wire going to the ballast resistor. Its a full 12 volts.
    Jeff is correct.
    If your ignition system incorporates a ballast resistor, the feed or power side of the resistor will be close to 12 volts.
    The output side of the ballast resistor will be your 8 to 9 etc volts.

    If your entire ignition system/circuit is healthy, it will easily power the Helix heating element.


    My pet peeve:
    The industry has called these "Electric Chokes" for years.
    Once we understand how the Helix and Helix heating element works, and how the warm Helix pulls the choke plate open, we should actually call these an "Electric Un-Choke".
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    ricardomarine....adding any additional load to the primary side of a ignition coil is to be avoided.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  7. #7

    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    ricardomarine....adding any additional load to the primary side of a ignition coil is to be avoided.
    Where would you get power?

    -JJ

  8. #8
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    ricardomarine....adding any additional load to the primary side of a ignition coil is to be avoided.
    Crankbait, without sounding condescending or sarcastic, can you then explain why the auto industry (and the Marine industry) has been able to pull this off for years and years, and with no apparent issues?

    Typically, what you're calling the primary side, is well capable of this load.
    If it was not, I'd certainly agree with you.

    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    it is not "currently" being done with distributors that use contacts. (as indicated by the use of ballast resistors and the 9 volt reading at the coil). with hei system you can do this. just not with ignition systems that use contact sets.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  10. #10
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    edelbrock is very clear. the choke must have 12 volts. using less voltage to delay the opening of the choke coil is silly. now days you want the choke coil to heat up as quick as possible so the choke vacuum unloader can pull the choke off high idle and open faster. this helps reduce emissions, and plug fouling.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  11. #11
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    We should be seeing a choke chimney, a choke plate, choke plate linkage, a Helix, and an electric Helix heating element.
    I'm not aware of any thermostat being used.

    Crankbait, if your carburetor incorporates a fast idle step up cam and linkage, it's most likely an automotive carburetor, not a Marine approved carburetor.




    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by kimcrwbr1 View Post
    1. The helix is a bi-metal spring that responds to the heat produced by the heating element.
    2. The two metals expand at different rates any bimetal spring can be considered a thermostat.
    Kim,

    1. I am fully aware of that. Not only via heat from the heating element, but also from heat produced by the exhaust cross over in the early V engines..... such as this style.




    1. In my neck of the woods, this individual bi-metal component (on a stand-a-lone basis), has typically been referred to as a Helix.
      (I'll agree w/ "thermostat" when/if the entire assembly is considered)



    I'll concede, and will go with thermostat during this thread! How's that?


    Getting back to the electric heating element power source.......
    If the ignition power lead is used for the heating element, just make certain that this circuit is healthy, and there should be no problem.



    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 09-12-2013 at 06:51 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    I am only responding to what the ORIGINAL poster said he is using. I AM NOT the one hooking up the carbs. read the original post before you pile on with your wizard advice.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  14. #14
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    I am only responding to what the ORIGINAL poster said he is using. I AM NOT the one hooking up the carbs. read the original post before you pile on with your wizard advice.
    Most of us here are adults and we use adult like behavior. We are usually polite to one another, and we show deserved respect to one another.
    We very seldom allow our disagreements to cause our underwear to become all wadded up.



    BTW, I noticed that you avoided responding to my comment here.
    Crankbait, if your carburetor incorporates a fast idle step up cam and linkage, it's most likely an automotive carburetor, not a Marine approved carburetor.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    ricardo.....thankyou for your attempt at a forum spanking. i did not avoid your wickapedia statement regarding the difference between a marine carb and a automotive one. a response was not warranted. again.... i am not the poster that is installing the EDELBROCK carbs.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  16. #16
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    i am not the poster that is installing the EDELBROCK carbs.
    That is correct! I believe that we all know that.

    However, are you NOT the one who posted this?
    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    ................ so the choke vacuum unloader can pull the choke off high idle and open faster...........
    If I am mistaken, please correct me, but I'll ask that you do so in an adult like manner.

    Fair enough?


    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  17. #17

    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Text book responses about what should or shouldn't be done are great for the classroom.

    However, I'm trying to give donsense some practical advice about electric chokes. Yeah Edelbrock says you shouldn't do all sorts of things with their products that I see guys do everyday with success. Maybe it's for liability reasons.

    My point is this: you can use the 9V at your coil and the choke will work fine. I've seen it many times. Obviously, it's your responsibility to make sure it's working properly before you leave the dock.

    Thanks,
    JJ

  18. #18
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    JJ, I hope that no one actually calls me to task on this.... but I could probably find and post two dozen or more Merc, Volvo Penta, PCM, Marine Power, etc, electrical schematics that would show exactly what you are describing.
    This has worked for years and years, and to my knowledge, it has apparently worked just fine.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    the vacuum unloader can ONLY pull open the closed plate @1/8 inch on initial start up. it cannot overcome the tension of the choke coil spring when cold.....no matter how high you rev the engingine, or no matter how much vacuum you apply to the vacuum pulloff pot. it will not happen. the vacuum pulloff is designed only to eliminate a full choke condition at inital start. if you notice, later emission q jet carbs, have two vacuum pull off diaghprams. the initial is to serve as an unloader......the second, is to act as what you you currently think the unloader is supposed to do.....is to help pull the choke off quicker. now a days, that second pot has been replaced by a heavier fulcrum weight.(only when a carb was used). it was more cost efficient, and the vacuum pulloff was prone to leak due to the high engine temps.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  20. #20

    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by crankbait View Post
    the vacuum unloader can ONLY pull open the closed plate @1/8 inch on initial start up. it cannot overcome the tension of the choke coil spring when cold.....no matter how high you rev the engingine, or no matter how much vacuum you apply to the vacuum pulloff pot. it will not happen. the vacuum pulloff is designed only to eliminate a full choke condition at inital start. if you notice, later emission q jet carbs, have two vacuum pull off diaghprams. the initial is to serve as an unloader......the second, is to act as what you you currently think the unloader is supposed to do.....is to help pull the choke off quicker. now a days, that second pot has been replaced by a heavier fulcrum weight.(only when a carb was used). it was more cost efficient, and the vacuum pulloff was prone to leak due to the high engine temps.
    This tidbit is irrelevant. Initial startup condition doesn’t change whether you have the choke wired to 9V or 900V. The choke pull-off will still pull the plate open the same way regardless of the power supply.

    It’s what happens AFTER initial startup where the choke wiring comes into play. Again, it may take an extra two minutes for the choke to fully open. During those two minutes you’ll have reduced emissions efficiency.

    If I was concerned about emissions I wouldn’t have bought a boat with two V8 engines that burns 20 gallons of fuel an hour. I would have bought a Prius.

    Thanks,
    JJ

  21. #21
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by JJDebeers View Post
    1. This tidbit is irrelevant. Initial startup condition doesn’t change whether you have the choke wired to 9V or 900V.

    2. If I was concerned about emissions I wouldn’t have bought a boat with two V8 engines that burns 20 gallons of fuel an hour. I would have bought a Prius.

    JJ......
    1. Fully agree.

    2. Funny that you'd mention Prius.
      My wife thinks that spending $XXX to save $XXX in fuel, was worth buying a Prius over.
      Guess what she now drives?

    Actually, I'll have to say that it's not a bad little car. I like most anything by Toyota.

    It's certainly not for me..... but she loves it, and if she's happy, I'm happy.


    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Prius?? time for comedy ..................... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL4wfilTe-o

  23. #23
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by daves69 View Post
    Prius?? time for comedy ..................... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL4wfilTe-o
    Although I try to avoid this, I usually wear a skirt and sweater when I drive it.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    look...... there is a difference between a "choke unloader", and a "choke pull off". aftermarket carbs that are sold now, ONLY come with "choke unloaders". they ONLY open the carb an 1/8 inch once the engine fires. they CANNOT pull the choke plate open fully !
    if you do not understand this, is is very apparant that you have no industry experience in carb rebuilds.
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  25. #25
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    Jul 2006
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    Redmond, WA, USA
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Allow me to share my experience with this. I replaced my carbs with new 1410s on my 440s and hooked up the electric chokes to the coil power (ballast resistors have been removed for the electronic ignition kits). Everything worked great but, I did notice that the keys would be very warm after cruising so I decided to check things out and the ignition wiring was melting! The power from the coil comes from the solonoid and runs all the way to the key in the dash before returning to the coil and with the choke added to the draw it's way too much load. I have disconnected the chokes and repaired the wiring. The only way to do this correctly would be to wire the chokes up with relays like the ones used for driving lights and then the coil wiring would only have to supply the control power for the relay. I will try that this winter but for now I just have to crank and pump a little longer to get them started. The Edelbrock instructions say the coil wire is a no no.

    Dan

  26. #26
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    tolly_family, you are absolutely correct in your thinking to use a relay to power the chokes. now if you would have wired it to the coil, that is exactly what I was trying to point out by it creating a "primary load" on the coil. there is a lot of mechanics disagreements on this subject. my advice, is to read over what has been posted and see what makes sense . in my opinion......you nailed it. do the relay !
    *** In comparing the virtues of various calibers, using hollow point ammo: it is absolutely undeniable that, while a 9 mm or .40 S&W may or may not expand, a .45 will never shrink. ***

  27. #27
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Dan, I like your relay idea.
    These little 5 pin relays can be found in a continuous duty version.
    The "triggering" or "coil" side of these relays do not require much current.

    If the OP is concerned about the ignition circuit falling short of this capability, then the relay certainly solves his concern.



    Crankbait, speaking of experience and correct terminology ...... we're not powering a choke .... we're powering the Helix heating element.... aka "thermostat"! (that was for you, Kim. )



    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 09-14-2013 at 07:45 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    IMHO, the choke power should be hooked up to the Alternator. If this could be done with your ALT it would be optimal. Turn on the ignition and test all the alternator connections for 12 volts. IF you find a connection that does not have 12volts (besides the ground) Fire the engine and see if that connection now has 12 volts.

    The reason for this, The choke will not heat up until the engine is running. Ford did this with a lot of the carbed Vehicles.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by Docksidemarineservices View Post
    The reason for this, The choke will not heat up until the engine is running. Ford did this with a lot of the carbed Vehicles.
    ... and if I recall, it worked very well.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP's

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: electric choke hook up

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoMarine View Post
    ... and if I recall, it worked very well.
    Yes, yes it did.

    Hey Rick. Bought a 383 stroker complete to replace the 6.2 with the broken head bolts.
    Chris
    Dockside Marine Services
    Jersey Shore.
    Mercruiser/Mercury Certified
    Let the insanity begin.

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