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  1. #1

    Default 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    hey guys im new to this site but I got some problems with my engine. Went out this weekend and my boat ran ok till lunch we was out for about 2 hours then after lunch it didn't wont to run for crap I got it back to dock but was lucky I guess. this is the set up I just bought the boat this spring and the guy has a funny way of cranking it. HE has a wire going straight to the coil from the battery. He said just use it to crank it. so that's what I was doing. Well it ran fine in the yard at home here but when we got to lake we had problems after lunch the only way I was able to get it back to dock was to put that wire on battery. Also while all this was going on the engine would idle fine so I raised the cover and touched the wire from distributor to coil and it shocked me I know that's not right. I guess my questions are were should I start. Change coil, New plugs and Wires, Distributor,. Also will it hurt to have that wire from coil to battery on all the time while im out running on lake. Also can these parts be bought at local auto parts store? And just a few more items the wheel will turn but it is very tough you get a work out I know it shouldn't be that hard should it ?Also the water temp gauge dosent seem to work I guess that's a simple fix just do some testing .Any help would be very appreciative. Thanks Michael

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    The jumper wire is not a good idea...I'd suggest rewiring what you have to the factory configuration and go from there...many times, ignition coils need ballast resistors to limit the current flowing thru them...without the resistor, the coil has a short life...

    Best to figure out what is wrong BEFORE you start throwing parts at a "problem"...unless your budget is very generous...you can buy some parts at the auto suppliers but certain ones NEED to be MARINE RATED...details depend upon what you have...coil, wires, points & plugs should be ok...Cap needs to match the marine distributor that should be installed.

    Best to post one question/symptom/problem in a thread and start new threads for other issues - your steering system needs regular lubrication...based on your description of the ignition system, that lubrication was likely done rarely, if at all.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Thanks for the advice I talked to a mechanic today and he said the same thing about the coil wire going to battery it needs to b run off the ignition switch. Also went to Orielys and got new plugs and wires haven't installed them yet but will soon when not working. Also found on here about switching over to eletronic ignition with hott spark found the kit that matches my distributor prestolite 7008as. Is this a good thing to do? My mechanic said it would b a no brainer if it was him to get rid of those points. Will keep you posted on what happens

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Quote Originally Posted by mmabe24 View Post
    1. I talked to a mechanic today and he said the same thing about the coil wire going to battery it needs to b run off the ignition switch.
    2. Also found on here about switching over to eletronic ignition with hott spark found the kit that matches my distributor prestolite 7008as. Is this a good thing to do?
    1. Your mechanic has apparently forgotten about the "start-by-pass" circuit used with the kettering system (contact point style) ignition systems.

      These older ignition systems were set up to include a "start-by-pass" system that provided a full 12 volts to the ignition coil during cranking ONLY.
      This was due to the lowered voltage during cranking.

      What the previous owner has done...... is that he's created a cheeze ball "start-by-pass" system.
      During the time between actual starter motor operation/load, your ignition coil has been receiving a full 12 volts that otherwise would NOT be seen until starter motor engagement.... and would be cut the moment of starter motor disengagement.
      This is NOT good!



    1. Not in my book! But this is my opinion ONLY.

      These Pertronix kits (also Hot Spark) use Hall Effect in a fashion that is very inaccurate, IMO. Hall Effect triggering is great.... just not the way that Pertronix does it.

      And the kits will do absolutely ZERO for any worn advancing mechanism issues that may be inherant of an old 1986 ignition system.

      You'll do much better if you were to replace this with an actual electronic ignition system using either Photo-eye, or VR technology.



    BTW, and you may or may not run into this.... but you'll occasionally see sellers advertising these for either the 5.0 or 5.8 engine.
    The Ford 5.0L and 5.8L ignition distributors are not the same as with the GM SBC's.

    The 5.8L Ford distributor shaft "hex drive" is larger for the oil pump drive.





    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 06-22-2013 at 10:47 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  5. #5

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Well I guess I will just stay with the points system really don't have the money to get a new distributor. Or do you have any other suggestions ? I was gonna put in new plugs and wires and check all wiring and then see how she runs after that. Just a few more details to my problem the day the boat didn't want to run first off the wire from coil to distributor shocked me and second it ran better or at least got me back to shore when I put the wire that was straight to coil on battery. Also can I leave this wire there just for cranking it or should I hook it to ignition. Why did he do this you thing I just want it done right. Thaks for all the help and don't mean to be an idiot with all this

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    .........

    Again.... in my opinion, you'll do as well or better (over that of the Pertronix or Hot Spark) if you replace the contact points, and set/adjust them via "Dwell".... not point gap!
    Point gap is an estimate ONLY of correct dwell.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmabe24 View Post
    Well I guess I will just stay with the points system really don't have the money to get a new distributor. Or do you have any other suggestions ?
    See above.

    I was gonna put in new plugs and wires and check all wiring and then see how she runs after that.
    Never a bad idea if you know that these are due for a replacement.


    Just a few more details to my problem the day the boat didn't want to run first off the wire from coil to distributor shocked me and second it ran better or at least got me back to shore when I put the wire that was straight to coil on battery.
    Find out which ignition coil is being used.
    We'll see an internally resisted coil, and we'll see the style that requires external resistance..... I.E., balast resistor.
    Look for a balast resistor.
    Measure the voltage at the coil lead.

    Also can I leave this wire there just for cranking it or should I hook it to ignition.
    NO.... you should re-connect this to include the proper "Start-by-pass" circuit.
    The OEM did this for a reason.



    Why did he do this you thing I just want it done right.
    Who knows.... perhaps he was not very mechanically inclined.
    Most importantly..... look up your OEM Marine engine ignition advance specs.
    Time the engine for BASE advance, but DO NOT stop here.
    Strobe your timing marks, and see what the "Progressive" and "Total Advance" are doing.

    Marine engine loads are substantially greater than automotive loads, and it's extremely critical that the ignition advance is correct!

    Rusty and/or weak flyweight return springs may allow for an early advance.... of which can be very destructive.

    If it won't make the specs, pull it and take it in to a shop who owns/operates an old school Sun, Allen or King distributor machine.
    If you give them the specs, they can make the corrections.




    I'm not able to find the Ford 5.8L Marine curve right now.... perhaps you can look for it in your OEM specs.

    Here's the curve for the GM SBC for Volvo Penta.
    DO NOT use this..... example only.

    Note that the curve is minus BASE advance and shows the progressive advance only, as do most Marine curves.

    When you strobe your timing marks, BASE will automatically be included in what you see.

    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 06-24-2013 at 08:03 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Well today I put new plugs and wires on boat and no help still running rough I have not done any thing with distributor so I'm back and forth between the hot spark and the old points setup. Also I'm thinking of just taking it to someone who knows what they are doing. Also I ran the coil wire to the key ignition and when I tried to crank it the starter stayed engaged what could cause this?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Quote Originally Posted by mmabe24 View Post
    ...ran the coil wire to the key ignition and when I tried to crank it the starter stayed engaged what could cause this?
    Likely incorrect wiring - somehow, you have applied 12 VDC to the starter circuit if it engages

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    I agree with Mark.
    The "Start-by-pass" circuitry should not allow for this to occur.
    Somehow you have powered the "S" terminal on the starter motor solenoid via the coil feed.

    While I'd not do this, you can take the purple lead directly to the helm and power it.... but I'd have to ask why?
    You'd be better off to fully test your engine harness and hull harness, and find the problem...... if one exists.


    Michael, at the risk of redundancy here...... I'd pull the distributor, take it to a shop who has a Sun, Allen or King distributor machine, and let them look it over.
    Make sure that they understand that the curve must be correct for a 5.8L Marine Engine....... not automotive.


    .
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Well took it to marine shop and they said needs new distributor and the carb needs a rebuild and as for the crazy wiring they just gonna reside the main ignition. My question is what type distributor is the best to use so I can suggest one. Also is there any thing I can do to try save a few bucks on this project. Thanks Michael

  11. #11

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Ok well this is the lateston my baot problems. Went on vacation to the lake for a week and the boat did great for 2 days then this happend. First let me get you up to speed. Wiring is straightened out fires with key and no wires to deal with. Running good. Same Distrubiter or orginal just upgraded to the hot spark eletronic thing that removes points and condencer. Ok so on the lake just about an hour and it dies while just idling picking son up that was sking. Well at first it didnt do anything no gauges no horn nothing! so raised the cover and found that 40amp breaker was triped or resced out. So i reset it and then I got my horn and gauges and then tried to start it nothing . Well it was just spinning over was making battery week so stoped and got pulled in. So while at dock was working and come to find out no spark to plugs no fire at all. Got it home and the guy thats working on it said its the distrubiter so ok no problem I will get one. My couple questions are 1. I think its a RH rotation. 2.Whats better points or go with eletronic ignition and if I do go eletronic what all do I need to change? 3. What would make that circuit breaker trip like that has anyone seen this problem before. Just at a cross road and getting tired of this crap and want to try to enjoy baot before its winter. Thanks Mike

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    circuit breakers are made to open when too much current passes thru them...they also have a tendency to open if they are degraded due to exposure (or age)...

    The electronic points conversion kits eliminate the maintenance of the points...

    As far as the lack of spark after running, did you check the voltage on the + post of the coil? Without checking there, the best you'll get is a guess....could be the ballast resistor or the coil itself, among other items...

  13. #13

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Well i forgot i did change the coil but not the ballast resister. Where and what does the ballast resister do? Also bought a new distrubitor a mallory 9-2061 I think thats it. So lets go from there. Also about how much is a new circuit breaker and what is the exact name of it. Thanks to everyone for your help. im learning

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    The ballast resistor limits the flow of current thru the ignition coil when the key is on and the points are closed. It will be in the wire between the + terminal of the coil and the ignition switch...should be a purple wire...it will be about 2" long and maybe 1/2" square on the other two dimensions. Probably get two from the autoparts store so you will have a spare

    No idea what a new breaker goes for...you can get an idea by looking up a mercruiser one at the top of the page. You should be able to find a suitable alternative in any decent marine supply catalog.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Mike, if this is a single engine boat, your engine is most likely a Standard LH Rotation engine.
    Same as if it was in a car/truck installation.

    Even if this was a RH Reverse Rotation engine, the ignition distributor rotation remains the same but the firing order would be opposite.
    The driven gear cut and the vertical thrust are opposite....... so Mallory's P/N changes for the RH engine applications.





    I can't come up with anythng for the Mallory 9-2061.
    The Mallory MAL9-26302 is the YLM version ............ previously known as the YLM554CV for the Standard LH rotation Ford 5.8L Marine engines.
    (the 5.0L distributor is not same)
    The YLM uses VR technology... it's pretty tought to beat, and would be my choice also.






    I would suggest that you use the ignition coil that Mallory recommends for the YLM series.

    As for the ballast resistor....... if the ceramic style is used, it will look similar to this one.
    Keep in mind that the ignition coil determines whether or not the input voltage should be resisted.

    The VR will function on either resisted or non-resisted voltage.







    Please see my previous post re; the Progressive Advance and TA.
    This is very important for the Marine gasser!



    As for the red button 40 or 50 amp breakers..... these are manufactured and sold by Cole Hersee.







    .
    Last edited by RicardoMarine; 08-24-2013 at 10:16 AM.
    Rick ... aka Ricardo..... AQ series Volvo Penta repair
    Portland, Oregon
    28' SDN F/B w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.7L DP drives

    "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death." Albert Einstein

    Please... no PMs! Post your questions on the forum.

  16. #16

    Default Re: 1986 dixie 351w PCM Igniton Problems (Needs Help) Newbee

    Quote Originally Posted by mmabe24 View Post
    hey guys im new to this site but I got some problems with my engine. Went out this weekend and my boat ran ok till lunch we was out for about 2 hours then after lunch it didn't wont to run for crap I got it back to dock but was lucky I guess. this is the set up I just bought the boat this spring and the guy has a funny way of cranking it. HE has a wire going straight to the coil from the battery. He said just use it to crank it. so that's what I was doing. Well it ran fine in the yard at home here but when we got to lake we had problems after lunch the only way I was able to get it back to dock was to put that wire on battery. Also while all this was going on the engine would idle fine so I raised the cover and touched the wire from distributor to coil and it shocked me I know that's not right. I guess my questions are were should I start. Change coil, New plugs and Wires, Distributor,. Also will it hurt to have that wire from coil to battery on all the time while im out running on lake. Also can these parts be bought at local auto parts store? And just a few more items the wheel will turn but it is very tough you get a work out I know it shouldn't be that hard should it ?Also the water temp gauge dosent seem to work I guess that's a simple fix just do some testing .Any help would be very appreciative. Thanks Michael
    I have the same problem I have the 351 Cleveland Ave 2min 81 Ski supreme and I it yesterday it started fine but now it won't start till turnover in I don't know what's going on so if you gotta give me some help that would be great

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