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BF 150 not cranking/starting and no power to the gauges

S

styyy

New member
I bought a BF 150 with 140 hours on it,supposedly a 2008. Ive finally gotten around to hanging it and beginning the rewireing process on the boat. The harness wires have some green corrosion on some of the pins,so I went ahead and ordered a new harness. I have a shop manual but it dosent say which battery wire is positive and which is negative(stupid question). I assume the wire with 2 wires crimped together is the positive?? The other wire is a single wire. I decided before connecting anything Id check the fuses and the #3 fuse was no good as was the main 90amp fuse(area inside the cover war somewhat corroded and the bolt on the top right was rusty?). Ive replaced them both.So I wanted to confirm the battery cable polarity before connecting the battery.
thanks,
Jerry
 
Thanks Hondadude. Another question ,would a faulty ignition switch cause the #3 10amp and main 90amp fuse to fail? Mabey I should make sure my ignition switch is good before reconnecting everything and turning the key?
thanks
Jerry
 
The 90 amp generally fails if someone connects the battery cables up backwards even for a brief moment. It protects the alternator. Other things like a short in the wiring could do it, but the only thing that I have seen was the reverse polarity of the battery.

#3 fuse could blow from various things. It could be your key switch (there is a ground in your key switch so if shorted internally, it could blow the fuse); any one of your gauges or your gauge wiring; that fuse also powers your power tilt switch.

It would be wise to check the switch before you reinstall. Also, double check your wiring.

Mike
 
Hey Mike,I replaced the main fuse and the blown#3 fuse confirmed the ignition switch wasent shorted. Today I finally got a chance to reconnect the harness and battery and,the "on"light and buzzer cane on and still no crank of the starter. There is power at the starter ,altenator and the trim on the motor works.
I have a shop manual but won't have access till thurs(left it at my dads). Should I be focusing my energy on the neutral saftey switch?he main engine relay? Or mabey the harness? Ecu? My harness does have some greenish corrosion that I was able to clean he male ends but the female side I haven't found a way yet? Would you recommend ordering a new harness?
thanks,
jerry
 
I would first spray some wd-40 on your female side...then reseat the connector several times.

I assume that the buzzer and all the lights come on for about 2 seconds. Then the battery charge light should say on until the motor is started.

Does the high pressure fuel pump in the vapor separator run for 2 seconds also?

I know you are dying to start your engine. See if the engine will start by taking the small wire with the spade tip connector off of the starter solinoid. If you have a remove starter switch, connect one wire to the small connector on the starter and the other to the positive battery cable lead on the starter. Once you have the key switch to on and fuel pumped up by the fuel bulb, push the starter switch button and the engine should crank...and hopefully start.

If you do not have a remote starter switch, you can just use a small jumper wire. Clip on end onto the small terminal on the starter solinoid, then touch the other end of the wire to the 12v terminal on the starter.

At least you can see if it runs.

Yes, check the neutral safety switch and find the procedure for checking the main relay. The starter relay is in the main relay module.

Follow the start voltage from the black/white lead from the keyswitch to main relay (starter relay). Have someone operate the keyswitch to check for the voltage. The black blue lead at the main relay supplies the ground to the starter relay through the neutral safety switch. So you can shortcut "checking" the neutral safety switch by checking for the ground on the black/blue lead.

Mike
 
Interestingly only the OK light comes on and the buzzer does sound for the 2 seconds. I dont hear the hp fuel pump either. Ill try the wd-40 and jump the starter thurs. if it dosent at least crank the motor, ill pull the main engine/ starter relay and neutral safety switch and check them at home that eve.
thanks a ton again for your help.
jerry
 
Well,the neutral safety switch checked out,I was able to confirm that the main relay steps 1 and 4 from the shop manual checked out but steps 2 and 3 were unclear to me. Step 2 referred to putting 12v+ to the main relay wire but didnt specify a color and #3 had similar unclear directions?? I also decided to test continunity of the wires to the ignition/gauges harness. I found the re wire didnt have continunity? Is it supposed to? I also tried testing the idiot lights using the shop manual and I got all to work except the low oil warning light?
Help!!
 
Yes, the manual misses a couple of words.

If you are on p 18-21, it also shows a schematic of the main relay.

In step 2, if you connect the positive lead to the white/green lead, it goes through the resistor and a diode to operate the main relay. Of course the negative is on the other side of the relay for it to operate.
You are testing the operation of the relay and the contacts.

In step 3, you are looking for continuity between the white lead and the white/yellow lead.

Not sure what "re" lead you are referring to at the dash. There is typically a red and a red/white...maybe others.

Mike
 
Mike,
Thanks for clarifying that. And yes the red wire in the dash harness dosent have continuity? Is it supposed to? I decided to check the harness for continunity to help r/o any other issues. I should get the new 20 wire main harness tomorrow. And Ill test the rest of the main relay.
thanks,
Jerry
 
If this is the red wire from the 4 pin connector to the light panel (overheat light), it should have continuity from the light panel (red overheat light) to the 4 pin connector under the dash to the 14 pin connector at the engine.

Mike
 
OK,main relay checked out. Yes its the red wire from the light panel that goes to a 4 pin connector,it looses continunity when it goes into the harness around the buzzer. Do I need to open the harness(are there other connections it makes within the harness) or just jump it? Also put in the new 20' main harness yesterday.
thanks
Jerry
 
No other connections that I know. You may end up just jumping it, but you should probably open the harness up. There may be other problems that you find at the same time.

I assume the new main harness did not improve anything.....

Mike
 
Ill open it up tonight. I havent tried to crank it with the new harness yet. Ill keep you posted. Thanks for help!!
Jerry
 
Well I opened up the harness and there was a diode on the red wire where the continunity stopped. Where can I find one to replace it with? Radio shack? Or is there a Honda part #?
thanks
Jerry
 
I was not aware that there was a diode in that circuit. Must be there for some isolation, possibly when using the digital gauges. Any numbers on it?

I would guess that it is probably a fairly low current diode, but I like to figure out where in the circuit it sits and what its purpose.

Without knowing for sure, I would probably get one from Radio Shack, something like this one with a decent amount of current capability http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062579&filterName=Type&filterValue=Diodes This can handle 3 amps, which is probably an overkill, but most stores have them in stock....at least around here.

Make sure that you install it in the proper direction.

Mike
 
Forgot to ask....did you reverse the leads to your ohm meter in measuring the continuity? The diode will only pass current one way. Maybe it is ok.

Mike
 
hondadude said:
Forgot to ask....did you reverse the leads to your ohm meter in measuring the continuity? The diode will only pass current one way. Maybe it is ok.

Mike
Click to expand...

Well,long delay(baby #2) came along. Wanted the get things moving along, so I decided to bring the boat to a certified honda dealer so I could get her in the water for the season. Having him do all filters,t-stats,water pump,plugs,hook up rigging and gauges. Just can't find the time.
So the mechanic calls me yesterday to say that I need a starter and he recommends cleaning the injectors? Said he has pics from what the vst filter looked like when he changed it.
Wtf this motor has 142 hrs? I'm not sure what happened?
I also decided to replace the main harness( corrosion On the old one).
I've never used this dealer before. I'll be stopping by the boat tomorrow to ask if he actually checked the starter? I did have to replace the 30.amp main fuse when I tried starting it last summer. I do have a shop manual but not infront of me. Is there a way to check the starter vs the solenoid?

thanks,
jerry
 
First...congratulations on #2. Babies tend to change the priorities.

Generally...if there is 12v coming out of the solinoid (and it stays at 12v and does not drop) when you try to crank the motor and the starter does not operate, it is generally a bad starter. You need to be sure that the starter is well grounded.

The final test would be a load test at a starter shop. You can always try to apply 12v directly to the starter, but you will need big cables and be ready for lots of sparks. Therefore, it is safer to take it somewhere, if you want to be sure.

Anytime we ever sent one out, it just verified what I already knew by the above simple test.

Mike
 
Thanks for the info,stopped by earlier and the starter spins but dosent engage the flywheel. Guess Ill have to get a new starter. Ebay has them ,NEW (aftermarket) with a 1 yr warranty for $189 shipped or boats.net OEM for $600! Any opinions,experience? Looks like itll take 20 mins to swap the old starter out?
 
Also ,is there a way of knowing if the motor was submerged? Would hooking it up to the honda diagnostic computer give normal results,or would it throw codes for bad sensors,etc?? The mechanic said the HP fuel pump was rusty and there was alot of gel in the filters. I dont want to sink money into a lost cause.
thanks
 
Make sure that the battery is strong and the voltage at the starter does not drop beyond 10 v. If it does, it is possible that there is a connection or battery cable issue. It could also be a starter justs drawing too much current. That is when it needs to be load checked by a starter shop.

The Honda HDS will tell if there are any codes, but it will not indicate that it has been under water.

I have found....the best way to tell that is pulling the starter and looking inside the flywheel area. There should be no signs of water, rust or oil in that area.

Depending on the aftermarket, I have not seen a lot of trouble with the starters. Being inland, I do not sell them to boaters on the big water. A starter failure is not quite as critical on a small lake or river as it is on the ocean...miles from anywhere.

Mike
 
Yea I relocated my batteries up into the console so I ran new 1 gauge wires. Battery is also new and fully charged. I'm praying the motor hasent been submerged. Guess when pull the starter I should be able to tell. As usual thanks for the help.
cheers ,
JerryJerry
 
Well the worst possible scenario, I pulled the starter and found corrosion,rust and salt! I contacted the loser I bought the motor from and he said he new nothing about it, that he bought the motor at an auction. Not what he told when I bought it.
So what steps do take to give this motor its best shot at surviving? I've already cleaned the vst,changed all filters,plugs,fluids. Is there a way to flush the flywheel aera then put some rust/corrosion inhibitor in there without disassembling the motor?
 
Yuk!!!! Hopefully the guys deal with salt water will jump in.

My thoughts.....

As you know the right way would be to remove the powerhead and clean the area and replace all the seals.

It does not look like a shortcut will work effectively....but since you have nothing to loose at this point....this is not my recommendation....just some ideas.

Fill up the cavity with a solution of something like saltaway or similar product..to get rid of the salt. You might have to rig a small pump up to agitate the solution by circulating the solution. Then you will have to tilt the motor to one side to pump all of the solution out and flush good. You may have to do this several times.

Take out the spark plugs and then use a deruster like pbblaster to clean off the flywheel as best that you can. You will have to rotate the flywheel by hand and clean it little by little.
A long flexible rod or very stiff wire with a rag will help you get to the parts that you can not see.

Clean all that out with a mild solvent like brake clean.

Then get something like MotorKote or similar lubricating spray (with a fabricated long straw to reach the far corners) and give everything in there a good spray over and under the flywheel.

Once this is done, clean up any excess lubricant inside the area.

Unfortunately, doing it this way will not allow you to examine the seals, sealing bolts, or crankshaft.

If you choose to take this shortcut and finally get the motor to run, recheck the area after you ran the motor a few times to see if it is taking on any water or the engine is leaking oil into the area.

Mike
 
I may opt to do it the right way if the motor starts and runs. How difficult is it to remove the power head? I have an engine lift , are there any special tools needed? I had the OEM starter professionally rebuilt and it should be done midweek.
Thanks for your input.
jerry
 
It is not difficult to remove the powerhead....just takes some time and standard tools. You will have to remove the lower unit, midsection, oil pan, and lower motor mounts to get to the powerhead bolts. You also will have several things to disconnect around the powerhead.

If you are going to do that, I highly recommend the official Honda Service Manual. It is available on ebay or Amazon.http://marine.honda.com/owners/manuals/shop-manuals

The investment is well worth the money. It has good step by step on taking it apart....and putting it back together.

Mike
 
hondadude said:
It is not difficult to remove the powerhead....just takes some time and standard tools. You will have to remove the lower unit, midsection, oil pan, and lower motor mounts to get to the powerhead bolts. You also will have several things to disconnect around the powerhead.

If you are going to do that, I highly recommend the official Honda Service Manual. It is available on ebay or Amazon.http://marine.honda.com/owners/manuals/shop-manuals

The investment is well worth the money. It has good step by step on taking it apart....and putting it back together.

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,I had the chance to check it out in the Honda FSM already. Seems do able. Just not 100% sure I want to sing a bunch of time and money into a motor that may have other issues down the road. Electronics(ECM,altenator,sensors,..) or corrosion issues where I cant see? Whats your take?

Also what process would you recommend before firing it up after a year in storage? Apparently it ran fine before going into storage. Is it necessary to pull the plugs lube the cylinders with a little motor oil , then try starting it up?

cheers,
Jerry
 
If it is just a year in storage, you should not have to lube the cylinders. It will not hurt if you want to. That way you can crank it without any load.

You said that the filters were changed by a tech. If you are not sure if the vapor separator was drained at storage time or by the tech, I would fill it with fresh fuel , then drain it to be sure you are starting with fresh gas.

Check the oil and check the gear lube, if you have not already......put water to it....and fire it up.

Fingers crossed......

Mike
 
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