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DP-C Bearing Carrier

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timm

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Last season I had a prop slip on the hub. This caused the prop to rub against the bearing carrier. I did do some damage, I am just not sure how much, as I can't recall how it looked before.
In looking over the carrier and looking at the shop manual, something doesn;t seem right. It says the seals are inserted from the AFT side, but a seem to have a lip from that side. Can anyone confrim what side I should be installing new seals from? Is it possible to do the new seals without the speacial tool for installing them?
 
You've lost a good portion of the housing.... and most all of where the two seals install.

The AFT-most end should look like this one.




Were you the person who recently asked me if I had a good carrier for sale?


.
 
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Rick,
Yes I was. Was hoping to find a good used one as new will set me be back over $500.
Did you get a response from your customer?
 
Rick:
I took the dimmentions of the exisitng bearing race. Are these the dimmentions that you said need to be folowed to avoid shimming? Dim "D" is approximent, because I had to take it with feeler guages, my calipers are to big to get in there.
dpc-bearingcarrier.jpg
What is the best way to pull the exisitng race out? (Without the factory tool that is). The lip doesn;t seem large enough to use a puller. Or will a couple rounded 1/8" flat stock work, putting the in the senter then shifting them outward, then press them out?
thanks,
Tim
 
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Rick aka Rickardo:
In further review of the manual, am I supose to have shim stock in the area "Dim D"? I don;t have any , it apears they just pressed the race in to wher eit needed to be. (Drive was rebuilt by Marie Parts Express about 2 years ago)
Thanks,
Tim
 
timm said:
Rick aka Rickardo:
In further review of the manual, am I supose to have shim stock in the area "Dim D"? I don;t have any , it apears they just pressed the race in to wher eit needed to be. (Drive was rebuilt by Marie Parts Express about 2 years ago)
Thanks,
Tim
Click to expand...
Volvo Penta did shim behind the bearing race in the beginning. There were some issues with the shims shifting and becoming damaged.
With the later drives..... the shimming was relocated to forward of the roller cage.


To change the bearing carrier, technically the shimming process should be performed again.

However, with precision measurements, you can calculate the different dimensions between the current damaged carrier, and the replacement carrier.

See my note where I point out the the control dimension from the carrier into the lower unit gear case.
Then look at the control dimension for the bearing race "stop".

This dimension will not be the same between any two carriers, but you will be able to calculate the difference between the two.

Take both to a good machinist.
He'll clamp each one to a table, and he'll use a precision dial indicator to check the difference between the two surfaces.
The difference in these two dimensions, will be the difference in the shim value.
It may cause the need for an increase to the shim value, or it may cause the need for a decrease to the shim value.

This will very likely mean shimming behind the race, or the removal or the roller cage, with a change to the shim value forward of the roller cage.

As long as the previous shimming was correct, you should be able to acheive the same bearing preload.

Since this affects one bearing ONLY, No other changes become necessary.

BTW, there is no OEM procedure that suggests using this method.... so you're on your own..... but it will work.
 

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  • Volvo Penta DP carrier control dimensions.jpg
    Volvo Penta DP carrier control dimensions.jpg
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RicardoMarine said:
Volvo Penta did shim behind the bearing race in the beginning. There were some issues.
With the later drives..... the shimming was relocated to forward of the roller cage.


To change the bearing carrier, technically the shimming process should be performed again.

However, with precision measurements, you can calculate the different dimensions between the current damaged carrier, and the replacement carrier.

See my note where I point out the the control dimension from the carrier into the lower unit gear case.
Then look at the control dimension for the bearing race "stop".

This dimension will not be the same between any two carriers, but you will be able to calculate the difference between the two.

This will very likely mean shimming behind the race, or the removal or the roller cage, with a change to the shim value forward of the roller cage.

As long as the previous shimming was correct, you should be able to acheive the same bearing preload.

No other changes become necessary.

BTW, there is no OEM procedure that suggests using this method.... so you're on your own..... but it will work.
Click to expand...

Thanks, the non OEM method is understood, and I acknowledge being on my own.

How anal should I be about matching up the dimensions? How many thousands "play" would you say I have?

Sorry for all the questions, but the boat is an hour a way, I just want to make sure I'm prepared the first time. Goal is to have the boat in the water on Wednesday.
 
timm said:
Thanks, the non OEM method is understood, and I acknowledge being on my own.

How anal should I be about matching up the dimensions? How many thousands "play" would you say I have?
Click to expand...
Do you have a replacement carrier?
Do you have both with you?

I have a carrier if you still need one.

As for being anal and precison....... you'll want to be as dead close as you can possibly be.
We're talking about using Machinist's skills here.

With pre-run bearings, we can tighten up clearances just a bit.... but not excessively.
 
RicardoMarine said:
Do you have a replacement carrier?
Do you have both with you?

I have a carrier if you still need one.

As for being anal and precison....... you'll want to be as dead close as you can possibly be.
We're talking about using Machinist's skills here.

With pre-run bearings, we can tighten up clearances just a bit.... but not excessively.
Click to expand...

I ordered the replacement carrier this A.M., found a new one online for right here in Wisconsin, I should have it tomorrow. I have the old one here with me. all my tools are in the shop by the boat. I am just worried how precise my press will let me be. I'm use to pressing things either out or in to a stop, so I'll have to be extra cautious to use the low speed and take my time.
We set back lash in gear boxes for elevators all the time, so I am use to dealing with 0.006 tolerances, but it appears I need more like 0.002 here. (or at least that is the smallest shim available.)
How much does your customer want for his carrier? Or better yet, how much do you want to set it up for me? You can PM or email me that info if you want to keep it off line.
 
timm said:
I have the old one here with me. all my tools are in the shop by the boat. I am just worried how precise my press will let me be. I'm use to pressing things either out or in to a stop, so I'll have to be extra cautious to use the low speed and take my time.
Click to expand...

The bearing race will come up against a stop within the carrier.
Why you are not seeing the stop shoulder, I don't understand.
 
RicardoMarine said:
The bearing race will come up against a stop within the carrier.
Why you are not seeing the stop shoulder, I don't understand.
Click to expand...

That is why I questioned the lack of shim inside the carrier. The race is sitting down 0.155" from the stepped surface.
Maybe this pic will help:
IMG_1314.jpg
 
timm said:
That is why I questioned the lack of shim inside the carrier. The race is sitting down 0.155" from the stepped surface.
Maybe this pic will help:
View attachment 6659
Click to expand...

Timm, that shoulder is not the stop for the bearing race. It's simply a relief cut during the machining.
A race that was positioned 0.155" forward of the stop surface, simply would not work.
The apposing forces against the bearing race would drive it further into the carrier.

Here's a bearing carrier with the race removed.
This shows the relief cut, and the race stop shoulder.
 

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  • Volvo Penta DP carrier race shoulder .jpg
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RicardoMarine said:
Timm, that shoulder is not the stop for the bearing race. It's simply a relief cut during the machining.
A race that was positioned 0.155" forward of the stop surface, simply would not work.
The apposing forces against the bearing race would drive it further into the carrier.

Here's a bearing carrier with the race removed.
This shows the relief cut, and the race stop shoulder.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that makes allot more sense. So my existing carrier is marked C20, so I will verify that I have a 19.20mm control depth. But regardless will use the number I come up with. I do have a depth indicator that will go down to 0.0005" gradients, it is only a 1" gauge though, so it will be close. My 2" gauges are only 0.001 gradients. If the new carrier comes in larger or smaller, I'll figure out the difference and add/remove shim as needed. I will error on the side on tighter then loose if need be.

Did I understand you correctly before, Volvo no longer puts the shim between the carrieer and the race, but instead puts it between the bearing and the gear? Would you by chance know the part numbers for these shims? Or should I just get a sheet of shim stock, and cut my own? The smallest sheets we have on hand is 0.005, as we normally shoot for +/-0.006 on the gear boxes we work on.
 
We'll take about shim location later. You may very well find shims behind the race. Let's assume that you will for now.


It's roughly 1.500" from the lower gear case mating surface to the inner most section of the carrier housing.... your dimension B or A.
We don't need this dimension for any calculating purpose, but it tells us that we need a dial indicator with a travel of at least 2".

It's roughly another .725" back down the race stop surface.

For best accuracy, clamp each carrier to a precision metal table surface.... (inner area aiming up).
Using a minimum of 2" travel precision dial indicator, Zero the indicator in on the lower gear case mating surface.

Raise the dial indicator shaft as to clear the the inner most section of the carrier housing (your surface D).
Slide the indicator base over, and lower the shaft onto to bearing race surface.

Do this while making no other adjustments to the indicator, the magnetic base or the rods or swivels.

This is the dimension that you will be comparing between carriers.

If by chance these were identical dimensions, no shim value change would be necessary..... but that ain't gonna happen.

Let's say that the new carrier dimension ends up being .004" less than the damaged carrier dimension.
This means that a value of .004" must be added to the existing shim pack.

Let's say that the new carrier dimension ends up being .006" greater than the damaged carrier dimension.
This means that a value of .006" must be deducted from the existing shim pack.

And I would suggest using the OEM shims...... Volvo Penta calls these "adjusting washers". They are precisely correct for the location.
 

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  • Volvo Penta DP carrier control dimension 2.jpg
    Volvo Penta DP carrier control dimension 2.jpg
    30.3 KB · Views: 42
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RicardoMarine said:
We'll take about shim location later. You may very well find shims behind the race. Let's assume that you will for now.


It's roughly 1.500" from the lower gear case mating surface to the inner most section of the carrier housing.... your dimension B or A.
We don't need this dimension for any calculating purpose, but it tells us that we need a dial indicator with a travel of at least 2".

It's roughly another .725" back down the race stop surface.

For best accuracy, clamp each carrier to a precision metal table surface.... (inner area aiming up).
Using a minimum of 2" travel precision dial indicator, Zero the indicator in on the lower gear case mating surface.

Raise the dial indicator shaft as to clear the the inner most section of the carrier housing (your surface D).
Slide the indicator base over, and lower the shaft onto to bearing race surface.

Do this while making no other adjustments to the indicator, the magnetic base or the rods or swivels.

This is the dimension that you will be comparing between carriers.

If by chance these were identical dimensions, no shim value change would be necessary..... but that ain't gonna happen.

Let's say that the new carrier dimension ends up being .004" less than the damaged carrier dimension.
This means that a value of .004" must be added to the existing shim pack.

Let's say that the new carrier dimension ends up being .006" greater than the damaged carrier dimension.
This means that a value of .006" must be deducted from the existing shim pack.

And I would suggest using the OEM shims...... Volvo Penta calls these "adjusting washers". They are precisely correct for the location.
Click to expand...

Ya, there is no way I'd get so lucky as to have an identical unit. I wasn't even thinking it was a possibility.

The one thing I was thinking of is the existing carrier is so chewed up, I can't use the aft face down on the table. I was thinking of drilling a hole thru the table and bringing the indicator from below. Then setting the carriers fwd face down. Out layup table is milled at 2" thick, so in hoping the indicators I have will have enough stationary shaft to reach thru. If not I might try to chuck it in the lathe and clean up the aft face.

thanks got all the advice. I will definitely take spme photos of what I do and post them here.
 
Simple..... Chuck the carrier up in a lathe, turn it slowly and true it, then reface the AFT end!

It doesn't matter how much of the AFT end is removed, as long as it's perpendicular to the bore, it won't affect your dimension.


.
 
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