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Shift Rod/Connector Linkage

CrappieDude

Contributing Member
Being a shadetree mechanic I did a seal overhaul, impeller housing kit and clutch dog install and finally got it all back together on my 25hp Johnson 25RL79R. I stumbled a few times and had to ask for help from here on the forum a few times and I appreciate you guys getting back to me. I did/do however have an issue......When I begun the removal of the LU, I took both bolts out of the shift rod connector (top and bottom) and now when I got it put back together I'm having a terrible time getting the linkage right.....most times it will shift fine, but there are times it will not go all the way into either forward or reverse. I can put a little pressure on the prop and it will go all the way either into forward or reverse. I've dealt with this issue for the past 4 hrs and I'm ready to unbolt the motor from the boat and sling it over the hill or in a hole. I'm very frustrated at the moment...LOL Any suggestions on where to start getting this #^@*& motor back to shifting correctly? Thanks!!!!
 
Notches in the shift rod must be lined up with the holes in the connecter BEFORE the bolts are installed.----------------Then when shifting / checking the set-up the prop must be turned by hand !
 
Thanks guys! I'll try that tomorrow. I know neither notch was in position at the same time. I had to quit or something was gonna get tore up...LOL
 
"most times it will shift fine, but there are times it will not go all the way into either forward or reverse. I can put a little pressure on the prop and it will go all the way either into forward or reverse."


Are you trying to shift the gear case into gear without the motor running or spinning the prop shaft? If so that may be the problem. The clutch dog cogs must mesh with the forward or reverse gear cogs to fully seat into gear.
 
The motor is not running while I'm attempting to connect linkage. I pulled the LU for seal/impeller/clutch replacement and it's sitting in my yard. I'm just trying to reconnect shift rod and apparently wasn't doing it correctly. Sometimes the gears won't engage fully until I turn the prop by hand.....I'm gonna pull the LU again (15th time) and connect the lower rod correctly....put LU back on and hopefully get the top part of the shift rod correctly in the connector.
 
That may be my problem then, I"ll take it to the lake and see what happens.....thanks kimcrwbr1! But, I know the notches in the shift rod isn't lined up with the bolts in the connector (brass piece in the housing). I thought I'd try and get the notches lined up with the bolts before I took it to the lake. Is that what I should do before I take it to the lake?
 
If you do not assemble the connecter properly then you are wasting your time going to the lake !----You also risk doing more damage !!--------Not sure why folks do not want to take the time to do it right the first time , but they always find time to do it twice.
 
I try racerone to do it right....sometimes what I think is right isn't and that's when I get in trouble...lol I certainly thank you and kimcrwbr1 for all the help. I'll make sure the notches in the shift rod are lined up with the bolts in the connector and take it to the lake and see if it works.
 
Unfortunately it didn't work to well.....went into gear easily, but when I opened it up, it began to jerk really bad repeatedly. I eased off the throttle and it quit jerking....so I'm back to square one....actually it's worse now because prior it only did it once at WOT. With the shift rod "correctly" connected ( notches lined up with the bolts in connector) is there more adjustment possible? Like sliding top/bottom shift rod in connector past the notches?
 
Well, after installing clutch dog and cradle still jerks a lot (more than before I replaced). Shift rod connected correctly (in notches). Didn't see any adjustments at the shift handle. Acts like the "dogs" aren't seating into the gear far enough, especially when throttle is applied. I installed clutch/cradle exactly as they came out. I don't know what else to do or look for.
 
I'm not 100% about anything....however I don't think it's out of sync. Engine starts and runs perfectly. I'm 99.9% sure it's LU related. The jerks are not violent, but more like I've hit something underwater...well initially that was the deal....now though, it's jerks constantly when I open the throttle.....I can put in in gear and as long as I don't rev it too much it's smooth...when I open it up it starts the jerking motion. Feels like the clutch isn't seating into the forward gear. I haven't opened up the gear case since installation, but I sure hope I haven't ruined a gear or another clutch. I can pry up(forward) on the rod connector inside the housing and it will move a little more but the notches are lined up with the bolts. I'm almost tempted to loosen the lower bolt and scoot the shift rod up and see if that lets the clutch engage the forward gear better. I don't know if it will stay there though. I'm now wishing I had taken it to a real mechanic...LOL
 
(Centering Shift Linkages - Manual)
(Joe Reeves)

The engagement of forward and reverse gear must be evenly set. The shifter dog and the gears both have what is called lobes. The lobes of the dog must be side by side with the gear lobes in order for the dog to engage one gear or the other which results in turning the propshaft.


To grasp this scenario, with your left hand form a "C" with your thumb and forefinger. Now, with your right hand, form a backwards "C" with your thumb and forefinger. Your fingers will represent the dog and gear lobes.


Slide the finger and thumb of your right hand alongside the thumb and finger of your left hand so that they overlap. This is the position of the dog and gear lobes when properly in gear.


To have the gears adjusted so that they engage evenly, it is best to have those lobes set so that they butt up against and face each other.


To visulize this, butt the tips of the finger and thumb of your right hand up against the finger and thumb tips of your left hand. This represents having the gear and dog lobes directly facing each other. Should you atempt to force the engine into gear with this condition existing, damage to the shift mechanism will surely ocurr, so keep in mind that this is just for adjustment purposes only.


To obtain the above adjustment position, spin the propeller while shifting into forward gear (lobes alongside each other). Now, shift into neutral and turn the propeller ever so slightly to have those lobes face each other (1/4" would do it), then move the shift lever back into gear but only as far as it will go without forcing it.. Adjust the shift lever/linkages so that this point of engagement is half of the shift lever's travel. Now, do the same with reverse gear.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:

http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

-----------------------------------

(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)
(J. Reeves)

This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".

Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.

When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.

The lobes of the dog and gears are precisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are precisely machined with sharp angles!

Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those precisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.

Some boaters with manual shift engines have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those precisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:

http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
 
I give up! Did everything I know to do....new clutch and cradle, shift linkage correct in notches, adjustment at shift handle and still jerks when opened. Guess there's a boat mechanic gonna make a few bucks fixing it or I'm gonna get another motor.
 
Didn't mean to shoot you down, just seemed to me it was the clutch not engaging correctly. Engine starts and runs fine, especially after I changed plugs....the only issue I have with the engine is the rich/lean knob keeps turning itself all the way to lean when it's WOT. This all started when I would WOT the motor would jerk one time like I'd hit something underwater....it wouldn't do it anymore until I'd shut it off to fish or whatever and when I moved again and WOT it would jerk the one time. I thought the clutch was bad, so I installed a new one....after the first install....when I got 1/2 WOT it jerked repeatedly...so I aligned the shift rod correctly, supposedly did the shift lever adjustment ( I couldn't tell that it moved(adjusted) anything).....to it to the lake yesterday and again, it jerked when 1/2 WOT and it was even more violent this time, so violent it actually killed the motor once....I restarted motor and idled back to trailer and loaded and came home. I will say this...while installing clutch....the pinion and forward gears do have some wear on them.....the end of the drive shaft that goes into the power head, the splines are rough. I'm thinking about changing the drive shaft, pinion and forward gear, but not sure what to do....I'm getting aggravated at this point. I'll take pics if/when I take it apart again. How do I check the sync/link? Like I said, I'm a shadetree mechanic and don't have a lot of special tools.
 
Ok...I checked the sync and the roller was past the two marks by 3/8in.....I adjusted it back to the marks, but for the life of me I don't see how that could cause the problem I'm experiencing...but then again...I'm NOT a mechanic and you are! Due to storms moving in today, I probably won't get to take it out until perhaps tomorrow...I swear, if that's what it is, I'll hug your neck....:eek:
 
Now that I know that the rich/lean knob keeps moving on it's own towards the lean side...I'll keep and eye on it and not let it run lean. I've checked on parts, drive shaft, pinion and forward gear(new and used) and will cost around $400....hate to put that much in it, but I will if need be.....The powerhead sounds good to me and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I'm kinda in a quandrum as what to else to do. I've only gave $350 for this motor via trades, add $150 for parts so far...seal kit, impeller kit, clutch/cradle....I'm afraid I'll have more in it than it's worth.
 
Now that I know that the rich/lean knob keeps moving on it's own towards the lean side...I'll keep and eye on it and not let it run lean.

Why are you allowing that engine to run with a sloppy fitting slow speed needle valve?

Break down and purchase a RED 315232 needle valve bushing that sits in the front of the carburetor. It's a tight fit and prevents the needle valve from moving by itself.
 
Unless that lower unit has been replaced with an older version, the propshaft should incorporate a 2 ball spring loaded detent that snaps the shifter dog into neutral and either gear. Strange that a new shifter dog would be jumping out of gear so quickly... unless the forward gear lobes were worn bad also.
 
It has the 2 ball spring. I have no idea why it's doing what's it's doing. The forward gear lobes have some wear and I'm guessing normal wear. Guess I'll order a forward gear and try that next.
 
kimcrwbr1.....no change. Still jerks. Guess I'll start replacing parts until it stops. If I replace drive shaft, forward gear, pinion gear I'll have around $900 in the motor and I'm wondering if it's worth it? Buying a new motor isn't an option for me, so I'll have to by used and take a chance that it will be ok. I don't understand, goes into gear fine, does fine until pressure is applied (1/2 throttle and above)...then starts jerking. Don't know if the clutch is slipping, forward gear teeth is slipping on pinion, pinion gear teeth are wore and causing the problem...or....the drive shaft is slipping inside the powerhead. As mentioned earlier, some of the splines on the drive shaft have burrs on them....the end that goes into the power head. I don't know if this is the result of the slipping or the cause. I did show the gears to a local mechanic and asked him if he would replace and he said he would, but he also said, they weren't wore enough to be causing my problem. He said it sounded like a clutch issue to him. I've not talked to him since replacing the clutch but I may have to take it to him to work on, only prob, he's the only one within 30 miles and stays soo busy that it takes weeks to get him to work on anything.
 
If I need to add more pics, just let me know.
 

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The spline on the drive shaft is good and if the spline on the crankshaft was rusted it would only slip one time and stop driving altogether.-----The gear teeth are not worn to the point where they would be slipping either.
 
I don't know where to turn at this point. I didn't think the gears were worn excessively, at least not enough to cause my issue. Wasn't sure about the drive shaft, but according to you and the local mechanic it isn't worn enough to cause it to jerk. Guess I'll put it back together and hope someone comes up with something....lol
 
If that forward gear is still out.... take some pictures of the lobes from the side so we can see the degree of wear.
 
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