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Here we go again Mid shaft bushing failure AGAIN !!!!!!! Honda 225

aristakat

aristakat

Regular Contributor
Okay anyone have positive results with what Honda if any come up with this issue ? I replaced midhsaft bushing on both of my motors 01/22/2012 along with one failed broken midsection well as I pulled cowling of to change sparkplugs I was greeted with once again broken midsection......... 600$ ouch midshaft bushing fail WHATS THE DEAL !!!!!! This is got to be a design flawam I stuck with this for rest of my ownership of these motors !!!!! Any body have suggestions......2013-02-02_13-52-42_323.jpg
 
Take a deep breath and chill. Something is outside of the norm. If I am correct your photo is of the union of the exhaust housing and the mount case? Is the black pipe shown in the pic located on the stb. side and is the outlet for the vapor seperator cooling manifold. What is the object to left of center in the photo? Is it the dash pot? I see destroyed Honda's and all other makes all day long since being located in the center of the U.S. energy market. I would also like to see this type of failure because I havn't. Thank's Martin
 
Jamie,
You might have to be the one that answers your own question. I read that one guys post on one of the links you provided and isn't that what he said he did? Just covered it up and ran it until he could finish out the season?

Of course, if that shaft failed at speed...??? I'm not sure if I'd want the worry with paying customers and/or kids on board.

Is that big THUD sound...a whole lot of... big Honda owners... dropping the idea of...RE-UPPING?

I don't know. I guess they all have their problems. But, this looks like a BIG ONE for Honda.

I would like to know what chawk_man has to say. He runs that outboard and I don't recall him ever mentioning having a problem in that area. Are you there chawk?
 
Capt,

How many hours did you put on the motor since the first fix? I did mine last summer and was going to pull the leg and look over the bushing during my spring PM's. I have about 110 hours on the fix, and haven't heard any squealing or unusual noise from that area of the motor.

I feel your pain, and am not looking forward to shelling out another chunk of money to refix this
 
okay guys hers where I am,

I replaced bushings last Jan 2012 250 hrs ago .. I have twim Honmda 225 2002.... On one motor I had midsection blown out and replaced enitre midsection in which midsection came w bushing, on other midsection bushing had some scaling etc... so bushing didnt fit the greast so maybe this was problem not sure... I ordered new midesction coming end of week so now I will have new midsections on both motors hoping all lasts better now we shall see..... jgmo , I pmed other owner to see if he in deed tryed without bushing myself I am chicken and will replace bushing as prescribed this time.... Should be pretty easy considering I took all this off last year no frozen parts I hope
 
Capt. Jamie,
Don't blame you for being "chicken" I am chickenER when it comes to something like this. I hope that guy gets back to you about his experience running without.

The thing that occurs to me is that it is OBVIOUSLY something that doesn't work all that well as designed and so, it could be a case of ENGINEERING OVERKILL inasmuch as the shaft might live a normal life without the bushing but... Honda decided to add that in for "protection". Or, said another way, maybe THEY got chicken?

I hope you have better luck with the new stuff.
 
FYI, I have taken a few apart, for a yatch club sailing program, that had the bushing rubber missing. When the rubber is gone there is no support. They have been running it like this for years.
 
Jamie,

I've not had to work on these intermediate bearings myself. Every time I take my motor in for a 400 hour maintenance, I have the tech pull the cowling and take a look. Last look-see was 200 hours ago at 1400 hours total. No problems. It is my understanding that these bearings/bushings rely on a certain amount of raw water flow over the bearing to keep it cool and lubricated. In the earlier Hondas, there was not enough water flow to do that. I don't know if that is true or not, but it might be worthwhile investigating further. I'll try to call around in the next day or two to see if I can get more info.
 
So, I guess you can run it with no bearing, if you get lucky enough for the bearing to let go in such a way to not knock a hole thru the Mid-Section housing?
 
I have a standard 25 inch and it has a mid-shaft bearing. Don't think I would run it much with the bearing not in there. I must assume that the drive shaft is torqued a lot under normal circumstances, and will therefore flex a bit. That would not be good on the lower drive gears. But again, this is speculation. I have not torn one down.
 
new midsection.jpg2013-02-07_17-02-00_428.jpgOkay all just received new case/midection part number 04406-ZY3-611ZA $510.08 dropped a little in price last year was 599.00..... It came with new water tube,new vertical bushing,new water impelar housing/and gasket, replaced it with ease since I had all this apart 01//20012 one thing when installing vertical bushing wasnt sure which end to install into case rememeber flat side up so C-clip is flush with flat side,,, I DID NOTICE new case had 3 new holes for water to flush in or out of shaft housing pics enclosed... Also water tube on old midsection had a pin hole looked to be there to alow water flow on bushing, new tube didnt have pin hole like old one... Any imput or thought on new holes ? pic of new hmidsection and pic of old midsection....

fyi port motor hrs 1901,,, starboard motor hrs 1873
 
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It sort of looks as if the lower hole is for water to enter and be forced into housing with the upper holes allowing for venting. But, if that's the case, why two? Sure would be nice if Honda just stepped up and explained the design change for you after taking your $500+ dollars. But, they may not be in a position to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in this particular instance.

So, chawk_man you DO have the bearing and no problems. I guess the longer shaft must make a big difference. And, after your saying that, I would agree that running without might be "cruisin' for a bruisin'.

mysteriouser and mysteriouser.
 
Jimmy - I have a late 2007 model 225 and I think they may have fixed the problem by that time, just like they fixed the exhaust pipes by that time. Just from monitoring this forum and others, it seems like the problem with the shaft bearing mostly occurs with those manufactured before 2005. Not totally sure of the corrected dates.
 
Thanks chawk.
I guess my interest is purely "intellectual" now since I've pretty much hung it up with the mechanicin'. Although I'm in the middle of a big retrofit on a friends trailer with much welding. It's a hobby now.
But, if I was still in the business, these would definitely worry me. How can you charge a guy beaucoop bux for a repair like this that's only likely to last about a year? I think I would just pass on the assignment.
Hopefully, Capt. Jamie's new housings, with the big holes, will do the trick. Like I said, I can't stop being interested.
 
jgmo said:
It sort of looks as if the lower hole is for water to enter and be forced into housing with the upper holes allowing for venting. But, if that's the case, why two? Sure would be nice if Honda just stepped up and explained the design change for you after taking your $500+ dollars. But, they may not be in a position to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in this particular instance.

So, chawk_man you DO have the bearing and no problems. I guess the longer shaft must make a big difference. And, after your saying that, I would agree that running without might be "cruisin' for a bruisin'.

mysteriouser and mysteriouser.
Click to expand...

So water is going to enter those lower holes (even though they appear to be above the water line when planing) , flow upward and exit the top hole??? Sorry, I don't buy it. Maybe there's something I'm missing??
 
Jimmy,
The scary part is last years fix when I ordered new mid case on starboard motor if I remember correctly didnt have the new holes in case... When I ordered this case for port motor the part numbered stated superceded so I think this is due to new case design ...:( Just not good bussiness pratice from honda only way I find out problem flaws is on this forum no contact from honda on any problems in last 10 yrs
 
Aren't those lower holes also covered by the plastic fairing?? I don't see how there would be any water pressure there to aid in lubricating the bearing, much less to flow out of that top hole.
 
I agree water would flood that area when those holes are under water, but what good would the holes do at planing speed then those holes are above the water line?
 
Just pulled mine apart (BF225 2002 model) 400 hours due to what I read in the forum looks like I am luckier than most but don't have the bushing out yet. No indicating of lubrication, shaft was shiny but don't think hurt. Bushing looks intact. C clip stuck on one side so sprayed with PBS blaster to let it soak overnight.
Just guessing here but probably the only time the bushing and shaft are in contact is during getting up on plane when the load is highest therefore no need for water to be "lubricating it after that time, but again just a guess on my part.
i would like to say thanks to all who participate on this forum special thanks to the cHawk_man who has shared a lot through PMs. You guys make it easier or us to make decisions about maintenance issues and less fearful of the unknown.... Now does anyone have a good picture of where to drill a the dang hole and not have to by the extension section to get it? Thanks again to all, jmc
 
Another note any brave souls out there? Looking at it looks to me like it might be possible to tap the case extension drill a hole all the way through and insert a grease Fitting. Then you would have to drill a hole all the away through the bushing prior to installing the shaft. Then grease all the way through at 25 hours just pull the plastic cover off and grease..... Just a thought. Also the guys that are having multiple failures how heavy are be boats the motors are on? The heavier the more torque to get to planning speed?... Again just a thought. My motor is on a 230 Proline around 3100lbs pretty light and again looks like mine is intact after 400 hours. Any correlation to this being a heavy boat problem? Jmc
 
my hull dry is 4400lbs without motors , twin engines 603lbs each.... so around 8000-9000 lbs , you should be able to see where holes our above in my piucs of new extension case...
 
Sorry for posting this late but used a blind bearing puller to get the bearing out. Had to buy from Norther tools as Autozones loaners would not work. (Not deep enough reach). Broke the bushing in three places coming out but it looks to be cast bronze so not unexpected. The bushing looked to be in great shape the vertical lines built into the bushing were still visible. The rubber looked soft compared to the new one. Possibly from being heated and cooled over the years...
all in all shaft was shiny but not overly worn so looks like I am one of the lucky ones... Again my boat is fairly light at 3000#s but I have loaded it pretty good at times with divers and lots of tanks.
just wanted to update with my finds. Replaced the bushing changed water pump and waiting for a couple of intake gaskets to put it back together (apart due to idler coming apart and going out of time, 12 bent exhaust valves, 6 bent intake valves) replaced them all and ready to get it back together and check it lout.
 
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