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  1. #1

    Default 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Honda 225 with only 150 hrs takes 4-5 key turns to start. Spark plugs are fine. Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    I assume that you are not getting any alarms once the engine is running, correct?

    What year 225 is it?

    Do you have good fresh fuel?

    Once started, does the engine run normally under load?

    When you activate the key switch, do all four indicator lights come on briefly, and do you hear two beeps from the alarm system? Are you pausing briefly, once the lights go out (except the charge light) before you start cranking?

    Get someone at the back of the motor and make sure you hear the high pressure fuel pump come on for about 2 seconds when you activate the key switch. If that sounds right, do the following...

    When you try to start the engine, is the low pressure filter bowl full of fuel? If not, pump your primer bulb until it is.

    Drain VST. There a a clear plastic hose on the back starboard side which is open on one end and looped into a holder. Follow that to its base. Beside the connection is a small slotted screw. Put the plastic tub in a clear 1 qt bottle, use a 10" screwdriver to open the screw about three or four turns. That should drain the VST. If nothing comes out, blow air back through the hose to open it up. If you get a significant amount of water and/or gunk, then you should pull it and clean it. Best to have a Helm Shop Manual for that. Pricey, but worth every penny. If you do get water and gunk, then remove and clean the low pressure filter, or replace it if there is water and gunk in there. Remove and clean the onboard fuel/water separator before the LP filter. Then install an external Racor fuel/water separator in your fuel line.

    Replace the high pressure filter (strainer). These often deteriorate or get clogged up and they are the most often mentioned issue for hard starting.

    If none of that fixes the problem, give us more detail.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  3. #3

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Thanks, I have already tried all of these things. I would only say that this 2010 motor replaced a 2002 Honda 225 (without NEMA capability). I used the same controls, adapted the wiring harness, added the Garmin GS10 Nema screen. The old 2002 Honda always started on 1st or 2nd key turn. Didn't change anything with the fuel system. But am vigilant about my filters. Have already replaced high pressure fuel filter and old was was super clean, low pressure filter is clean and moisture free, drain the VST regularly. No alarms, engine runs great after starting. I change oil every 50 hrs of operation instead of 100. Boat is used in British Columbia way up north and over 8 hrs away in rough seas from any shops or mechanics and that is why I do so much preventive maintenance myself. So if you can think of anything else, please let me know. Also, I have new batteries. Colorado Dan

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Okay - sounds like you are doing all the right things. Let's start with the basics - it's either an electrical problem or a fuel feed problem. The fact that once started, all runs well, I would put a possible electrical problem on the back burner. Looking at a possible fuel feed problem, it sounds like your fuel pressure is not charging up promptly, as it should. The first possibility that comes to mind is that your fuel cut off solenoid is slow to fully open. I can't give you exact instructions for getting to it and testing, since I'm traveling til next Wednesday. But, follow your fuel line from the LP pump back to the VST. Towards the rear of the engine, near the VST, it should go into the fuel cut-off valve and solenoid.

    Perhaps Hondadude or JGMO can pull up the correct diagram and post it.

    Anyway, you should be able to pull the valve and test it by unplugging from the engine and directly applying 12 volts. There is a plunger that should immediately retract all the way to allow fuel to pass through the valve.

    Also, there is a fuel pressure relief port back there. I think it has recessed square fitting. If you can thread in a fuel pressure gauge, you can check whether the fuel pressure is up to specs on your initial crank. The location, thread size, and pressure specs were posted previously on this forum. Do a search. Or one of the other folks who have that info at hand may hopefully jump in.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  5. #5

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Hi guys, i have a similar issue. Engine fires on cranking, but dosent actually start. if you dont relese the key, it continues to crank giving a few firing attempts every few seconds(3 sec). if i release the key and re crank, it will fire up fine. Lately it has become more difficult, requiring 3 or 4 attemts.
    Obviously it never mosses a beat once it is going, no alarms or logged faults either.
    Its annoying and i fear it will become a breakdown one day.

    It seems like the ecu is shutting down and re booting.
    ive checked all the plugs and fuses i can, no corrosion, runs at full throttle for 10 min so fuel supply is not an issue. plugs are fine.
    2011 bf225 2000hrs.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    The first thing I would do is drain the VST. The procedure is in the service manual and Chapter 3 of the Helm shop manual. Put the drain hose in a clear jar that will hold at least a quart of liquid. Take your time and let it drain completely. If necessary, turn on the key switch briefly to activate the HP fuel pump to push out all of the old fuel, water, and gunk in the VST. Let the jar sit for a while and see what settles out and how much water may have been in there. NOTE: If the VST has not been drained for a long while, the drain screw might be frozen. Spray it with PB Blaster, let it sit for a while to penetrate, then fit a flat blade screwdriver in the screw slot and tap, tap, tap. Repeat, maybe several times until it comes loose. If you can't get it out, you will need to remove the VST. If nothing comes out, blow compressed air back through the drain tube.

    If that doesn't fix the problem, check the fuel pressure. Hook up your fuel pressure gauge to the pressure relief bolt at the top of the HP fuel filter case. You will need a 6 mm adaptor for your fuel pressure gauge. Disconnect and clamp or plug the vacuum line to the pressure relief valve. Have a buddy work the key switch. Turn on the key switch but don't initially crank the engine. The high pressure fuel pump should activate for about 2 seconds and you will get somewhere between 40 and 50 psi on the gauge. Then start the engine and check the gauge. You should get between 41 and 48 psi at idle. If too high, you may have a problem with the fuel pressure regulator. If too low, you may need to remove the HP fuel pump and clean the screen on the bottom of the fuel pump holder (or replace it all together.)
    CHawk 25 DLX

  7. #7

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    if i release the key and re crank, it will fire up fine. Lately it has become more difficult, requiring 3 or 4 attemts.
    Have you tried priming the fuel system more than once before actually cranking the engine?
    If I leave my engine long enough (i.e. numerous days) and simply crank it, the engine generally won't start.
    But if I prime the system 2 or three times (by just turning the key so the fuel pump runs for 2 seconds) before cranking it starts pretty much straight away.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Quote Originally Posted by metal-chicken View Post
    Have you tried priming the fuel system more than once before actually cranking the engine?
    If I leave my engine long enough (i.e. numerous days) and simply crank it, the engine generally won't start.
    But if I prime the system 2 or three times (by just turning the key so the fuel pump runs for 2 seconds) before cranking it starts pretty much straight away.
    I never prime the bulb, in fact I don't have one. The vst never drains, and even when I had a minor air leak, and the line would drain, it always re primed itself and was not a problem.
    I managed to narrow it down tonight, seems while cranking, that I lose spark, I managed to crank it non stop for 10 seconds without if firing, then stopped cranking, gave it another kick on the key and it would go. Read on another forum of an issue someone had with a crank angle sensor, unplugged mine and the problem got worse. It did run. Plugged back in and all seems ok for now. If im going to replace parts, this will be where I start.
    While it was cranking and not starting, we could smell petrol in the Exhaust, and we had voltage to the coils. What we couldn't test was the pulses to fire the coils. Need an oscilloscope for that, or a fancy tester. My son might have one.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    OK. Let us know what you find. Smelling the fuel after cranking and no start indicates that your injectors are probably working okay.

    Consider pulling fuse #7 - the 30 amp one - and testing with an ohm meter. It should have near 0 resistance across the contacts. Check the contacts for corrosion.

    As an aside - are you saying that the VST has never been drained? That's not good. You should drain it every 100 hours. Otherwise water & gunk will accumulate in there and will cause problems downstream at the fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and injectors.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  10. #10

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    I have partially drained drained the vst,, never had gunk or water in it.
    On my previous Honda, it was the same. You don't ever need to prime it unless you remove it and completely empty it. People keep going on about priming them out squeezing the bulb. It's not a dirty old 2 stroke.
    I've read another forum where the crank angle sensor was dopey. I might start with that. Posts are not cheap here in New Zealand

  11. #11

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    I hand pulled all the fuses and plugs to check for corrosion. Nothing found.
    I am an electrician, and I have considerable experience with motors in just about anything. I have rebuilt outboards, 2 stroke and 4 stroke.
    Last night we tested the power at the coils and while cranking out never got below 10 volts, do it shared the same supply as the computer, I'm happy it's not a voltage drop issue. Something is cutting the spark after it fires once or twice. If I hear it fire, and let go of the key fast enough, it will catch and run. If not, a second flick of the key and away it goes.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    That's seriously weird. Beyond my expertise at this point.

    Just for grins, it might be a good idea to see if there are any fault codes still residing in the ECM EPROM.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  13. #13

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Had it on Dr honda, no codes other than when I unplugged the r/h exhaust temp sensor.
    This issue was existing when I got the motor 3 years ago, It's done 2000 hrs and apart from the starting thing, it runs like a charm..

  14. #14

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    A CKP sensor is an Inductive sensor N/O and N/C you don't need an oscilloscope to test it if you have one good. You can test it using a 5v globe and disconnect the sensor negative from the ecu and use the battery negative.

  15. #15

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    I have ordered a new sensor..I'm happy to pay to see if it fixes my issue.
    Tegweni, you are in Hamilton, nz aren't you?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    You need to do the O2 sensor ECM upgrade, I have come across this on a number of 225s

  17. #17

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Quote Originally Posted by iang6766 View Post
    You need to do the O2 sensor ECM upgrade, I have come across this on a number of 225s
    Can you elaborate please?
    I have a new o2 sensor, the last one failed, but it made no difference to the starting issue.
    Ecm upgrade? A honda dealer here has stated that he has never had to replace a honda Ecm.
    The one I have is 34750-ZY3-C02
    34750-ZY3-C02
    34750-ZY3-C02

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    The upgrade is covered in Honda service Bulletin #70. However, I don't think it applies to your 2010 motor. SB #70 only applies to motors with serial numbers up through 1509999 and your SN should be higher than that. SB #71 addresses HO2 problems with motors BAGJ-1600001 ~ 1600527. The ECM does not detect a failed HO2 sensor.

    Are you in that range? If so, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will return #71.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  19. #19

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Thanks chawk, , my serial is Bagj 1602073, and it does detect a 0 sensor failure... It bloody well beeped all day on a fishing competition, unless I went flat out..🙄👍

  20. #20
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Big Dave - I went back and read your post #11. I think you might be dropping too many amps at cranking. You're the electrician. But harking back to my shade tree auto mechanic days, that sounds like your starter may be drawing too many amps to the point where the ECU or main relay can't provide enough to fire the plugs. Consider using some auto jumper cables to bypass your cables and see what happens. I would start with the ground cable. That's often where things can go wrong in a salty environment.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  21. #21
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    Apr 2018
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    I have changed ECMs on a number of BF225 AK1 motors with exactly the same issues ypu have and it fixed the problem every time. Just sjaring what I experienced.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Big Dave - Ian's advice is probably totally correct. He has MUCH more experience with these engines then I do.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  23. #23

    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    Big Dave - Ian's advice is probably totally correct. He has MUCH more experience with these engines then I do.
    I don't want to hear that...ECU's are expensive.

    None of the Honda dealers here have ever replaced an ecu.
    I'll wait until the crank sensor turns up and see if that makes a difference.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: 2010 Bf225 Starting issues

    Have they not got one you can try?

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