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Honda BF50 Remote Controls Issue

neversummer

Regular Contributor
I have a 2007 BF50 with minimal use (~60 hours)..

This summer during the past few weeks I have noticed that the throttle cable is coming out of its red plastic sheathing where it meets the engine (see photo). The metal cable is visible and slightly rusty.

I have also noticed that going in and out of gear is more difficult, and when I return from forward or reverse gear to neutral, it causes the fast idle lever to stick slightly up, revving the engine to about 2,000 RPM.

Is my solution that I need to replace the red throttle cable? Is this a difficult job?

photo(5).jpg
 
Well, I ain't Obi Wan Kenobi but I would say that you do have a throttle cable problem....AND a shift cable problem. I would never replace one and not the other. That shrunken covering has probably let water in on that one for sure, and the other doesn't look like it's far behind. Nice pic by the way!

As far as your fast idle lever jumping up like that, I'm not sure. As a matter of fact, all the parts pages on boats.net show a button type throttle isolate for the 50hp. I know that the 20hp control uses a lever for fast idle. Is yours an upgraded//up-sized motor?

Anyway, it's been a while since I cracked one of those housings open but it's pretty easy. You have to unbolt it from the hull (if it's a flush mount) to take the cover off. Then just work the shift/throttle lever and you will probably be able to see what's going on in there to cause that. You may have something broken in there from the force of having to work the lever against the resistance of the sticking cable(s). These things are pretty delicate and were intended to work cable that is "butter" smooth in it's housing. Here's a comparison of the two different systems:

20hp control...http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...Later/BF20DK0 SRTA /REMOTE CONTROL/parts.html

50hp control...http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...TE CONTROL (FLUSH MOUNT TYPE) (R.)/parts.html

Now, how's your steering?
 
I thought someone else would jump on this one.

Most likely your cables are sticking or the shift/throttle is out of adjustment.

I would replace both throttle and shift cables. If you are in there, it will take the same amount of time, just the cost of the extra cable.

If they are not marked, measure them from end to end. Use a good cable, Teleflex TFXtreme or Glendinning Pro-x cables if you can find them. They are 33c or 3300, depending on the brand.

Most dealers should have these in stock.

Just take pictures as you are taking things apart. The hardest part is generally, removing the control box or getting the cables out of the boat.

When you put it back together, put the cables in the control box first. There should be a little black spacer that goes between the two cables in the control box. Remember to put it back, if you have not already lost it.

Once cables are in shifter, leave the shift box in neutral, then adjust and connect the other ends. Check to be sure that the carbs are going to full throttle.

Have fun.

Mike
 
You guys are great! Thanks for the advice.

There is a Honda-certif marine dealer near where I keep my boat, so I am going to pull those cables off and bring them down to the shop so I get the right size. Provided that I leave everything in neutral while I am removing the cables, I imagine that I wont need to do any adjusting of the throttle or shift components on the engine itself?

Fortunately, most of the red cable on my boat is easily accessible, minus one small under-deck tunnel between the console and the bilge area, so I hope this doesn't take too long. I will let you know how it goes!

PS -- My steering is actually butter-smooth for an old boat -- last year the dealer reamed out and lubricated the helm tubing.

Thanks again,

Ted
 
Like Mike suggested already, there is some adjustment "consideration" to...er...well...consider.

It is highly likely that your old cable has stretched over time so the new cable might not match up 100% dimensionally. Chances are, if you aren't the original owner and know for sure it has never been "touched", then my guess is that it has and some adjustment will most likely be needed to get the shifting and throttle to work properly after the replacement cables are installed.

If yours is the 20hp type with the lever fast idle, then there is plenty of easy adjustment built in to that control. I am not familiar with the push button lockout type but I suspect it may be similar.

You didn't answer if this was an upgrade. If it is (again, I realize that you might not know) then it is possible that some "modifications" may have been done to the outboard cable end connections for one remote to match the different remote and/or cables. If that is the case, then you may have to deal with that aspect of it as well.

Make sure you don't "fudge" or skimp on the hold downs. If they are inadequate, broken or corroded, replace them. Make sure that you adhere to all bend and loop specifications so you get good results and no binding when you are finished.

If it worked well before, then it will work ok again.

Good luck.
 
Thanks all. This is the original engine rigging, original owner, which I had done by the dealer in 2007. No modifications, adjustments, or upgrades to the system since.

As far as the fast-idle part of the controls, all I know is that this is what the dealer rigged and it has worked great until now.
 
Well, in that case, it should be an easy repair and, if any adjustments are needed, they will probably be small ones in the form of "fine tuning". Which, like I said before, should be readily accommodated by the range provided in the control. Please let us know how it works out.
 
Thanks all!

Well I got myself some Teleflex Extremes (same length) and went to work. Removing the old cables was fairly simple, and routing the new cables was actually much easier than I expected. I followed the same loops as the old. The hardest part of the install actually was adjusting the ends on the motor and remote ends to get the adjustment right. I'm still not yet positive if I have gotten it right yet --- I didnt bring my muffs with me so I couldnt run the motor. I figure that I will know I got the adjustment correct if the shifting is smooth and the throttle runs to full RPMs?

Also, I noticed that with the motor off and everything hooked up, I could put it in forward gear but not reverse. I seem to remember reading something about this -- does this engine not allow reverse unless the engine is running or did I mess something up?
 
When the motor is off, you should ALWAYS have the prop shaft moving when you attempt to shift gears. The logic behind this is that the main shaft is always rotating when the engine is running thus allowing the gears and clutch to "mesh" while shifting.

What is probably happening to you is that your transmission is "edge bound" internally because you are not rotating the prop shaft. If you force a shift when it is in this state, you can break or bend shift linkage components. This holds true for just about any outboard motor except the ones with centrifugal clutches.

Just be careful there and rotate your propshaft when "dry shifting" and you will be ok. Sounds like you are pretty close to being finished. Yes, if she idles normally, reaches full rpms, and shifts smoothly, you've done a bang up job!
 
Thanks all!

Got it running today on the muffs. Throttle and shifting (forward and reverse) was very smooth and made it all the way up to full RPMs on the muffs, will check again when its in the water.

I did notice that when I put it in forward idle on the muffs with minimal throttle, I heard a faint irregular rumble from the gearcase. This noise goes away when I give it throttle past idle and doesnt occur in reverse. I'm thinking I never heard it before because you probably cant hear it when the boat is in the water. I checked the gear oil to be sure, no filings. Should I not worry about it?
 
As long as you have connected the shift cable to the motor with the motor in neutral, I would not worry about the prop rattle. Just check to be sure that the prop is tight. Once in the water, the rattle will go away when the prop gets loaded.

Congratulations on the successful cable change out.

Mike
 
Well went for a water test today. The acceleration and shifting was butter smooth, which was great.

However I did notice a problem after cruising for a few minutes -- upon returning to idle the engine seemed to be struggling and in fact died a few times after I tried to shift from idle to forward. I spent some time back at the dock re-adjusting the throttle cable, but i have not been able to fine tune the throttle / shifter to produce the right rate of idle in neutral / idling in forward.

I know this is just a problem of re-adjustment, but its so frustrating going back and forth with it I might just have the Honda dealer look at it so I dont have to keep fiddling, unless there is a really easy rule of thumb on fine tuning.

Thanks all!
 
The idle is not set with the throttle cable adjustment.

The idle is set with the idle stop screw on the bottom carburetor. Pop off part #9 from part #15 by putting a needle nose pliers behind part #9.

The idle should be set at 950 plus/minus 50. I would set it close to 1000 rpm.

Before you put #9 back on, detach the end of the throttle cable. Put part 9 back on, then adjust the throttle cable to match up with the throttle linkage connected to part 9.

If that does not do it, then it is possible you may need the vacuum balance on your carburetors adjusted. That has to be done with a set of gauges. That is something the dealer could do pretty easily.

Mike
 
Boy did my small problem turn into a bigger one!

So after continuously fiddling with the idle, I brought it to the Honda dealer to adjust.

After assessing, he determined that in fact my one of the three carbs was not working, explaining the engine struggling and dying at low RPM. I opted to go with a carb replacement, which he did over the past few days and I picked up today. During a water test today, I found the engine still struggling and dying at idle and when going from neutral to gear, (but performing flawlessly at WOT and everything in between.)

Brought it back to the dealer and he now believes that the carb on the TOP cylinder is not working. By now I am totally frustrated and out parts and labor for the initial carb (BOTTOM cylinder)--- I will mention that I now know that water got into the fuel (could be salt, could be rainwater) because when I drained the fuel out of my tank today, it was clearly separating (2 weeks ago I had a small incident with a lot of waves coming over the transom and some water in the boat due to a failed pump , but I have a feeling it was really rainwater getting through the vent that is giving me issues).

I should also mention that when he did the carb job, he changed the engine fuel filter and cleared the fuel lines, and I used brand new gas and installed a new Racor secondary filter today.

Is it likely that the water that got in the fuel messed up ALL my carbs? The dealer understands my frustration, and is going to run some carb cleaner through to sit overnight before we go through ANOTEHR carb replacement and associated tear-down. My personal thought (before another carb job) is to run the engine on the muffs and let like 2 bottles of Seafoam go through in the fuel. Thoughts?

Thanks to all for your dedicated help and kind responses!
 
Water can mess up a carburator...especially if it is salt water.

What the dealer is trying to do, is clear your idle passage. Sometimes the trick works but most of the times it does not. I have found that if you can not successfully pull the idle mixture screw clear the idle passage by shooting some cleaner and air through it, the trick generally does not work thoroughly.

There is a small vertical tube that has a pin sized hole up through it from the bottom of the carburetor to the top. Just letting carb cleaner sit in the bowl does not reach to the top of the tube. Likewise, if it is totally clogged, the seafoam will not pass through it and will not clean it out. If a little is getting through, then you might get lucky.

That being said....Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Mike
 
Thanks Hondadude, as always for your prompt reply.

Sounds like I may as well give the carb cleaner a shot, but realistically looking at likely stripdown and replacement of the other two carburators (I wouldnt go through the trouble of the teardown and then just replace ONE of the two remaining).

I'd chalk it up to a thousand dollar lesson learned to be more careful with my fuel.

Ted
 
I'd say one additional problem that you may have "developed" here is your shop mechanic's "belief" system. He "believed" that your lower carb was the culprit but reality proved him wrong. Now, he "believes" the top carb is the culprit....ok...let's HOPE he's right! Or, let's HOPE you're right with not taking a chance and doing the other carb. Which, brings me to my point.

You are the amateur here and HE is SUPPOSED to be the PROFESSIONAL. There is SUPPOSED to be a different set of rules that apply to the veracity and accuracy of and for each of your individual diagnosis. You took the job to him with that expectation I would think. YOU are allowed and, in some cases, including this one, EXPECTED to be WRONG. Logic and luck ALLOWS you to be correct OCCASIONALLY but being WRONG is what led you to this guys door. Ok, that's fine. That's how it works. That's how its supposed to work.

HE, on the other hand, is EXPECTED to be CORRECT and, of course, because any of us in any profession do make mistakes, is ALLOWED to be WRONG. BUT, and this is a big BUT, when he is WRONG, it is not your responsibility to PAY HIM FOR BEING WRONG! You went there to give him MONEY for being RIGHT. That is ALSO how it works.

He plainly and clearly DID NOT diagnose your problem correctly, that much should be TOTALLY clear to all involved or reading this. Therefore, in the name of all that is sacred between a shop and a customer, he should be making ALLOWANCES on YOUR BILL for HIS MISTAKE.

I'm not saying that he should work for free or that he should have his head held under water for not getting it right the first time. But, he needs to adjust for the fact that, when all is said and done, he didn't get 'er DONE. Your labor charge for the tear down and assembly that is coming should BE NOWHERE NEAR the one you have just finished paying him for. Yes, he can charge you additional labor for going back in and dealing with the added components but YOU ALREADY PAID for the privilege. And, it brings up another point.

Whatchu gonna do if he's wrong again? There are METHODS for determining what is happening with an engine when it isn't running perfectly. IN THIS CASE, it is a really very simple METHOD as well. It is called ARTIFICIAL ENRICHMENT. If he is going to hang out a sign and say "GIVE ME MONEY FOR FIXING YOUR OUTBOARD" then it is INCUMBENT upon him to be PREPARED and EQUIPPED to perform this simple test of adding fuel to EACH AND EVERY ONE of your carburetors when he BELIEVES there to be a fuel delivery problem. THIS IS MECHANICS 101! There is no need to BELIEVE, because we can TEST.

I say all of this because I AM a PROFESSIONAL MECHANIC and I would CERTAINLY NOT CHARGE you FULL FREIGHT for ANOTHER tear down. As a matter of fact, I WOULD BE EMBARRASSED if I had called this job this way.

What I'm saying to you is that I don't trust this guy already. I don't want to make you nervous but that's just the way I see it from here. And "here" is a long way off, I realize. I realize also, that you have to use your own best judgement to deal with this problem and this might be the only shop within miles. But, go back in this thing with OPEN EYES, watching like a hawk! Question his METHODS. ASK him if he's comfortable with charging you twice for an unfinished job. OR, print this out and let him read it. I'll defend my words if he disagrees. If he's honest and fair minded he won't.

Nuff said,
Good luck.
 
Hi friends
As long as you have connected the shift cable to the motor with the motor in neutral, I would not worry about the prop rattle. Just check to be sure that the prop is tight. Once in the water, the rattle will go away when the prop gets loaded and your remote control boat will be perfectly fine.

Regards
Sid
 
Not sure if I'm posting this question to the right area. I have a Honda BF50 2005. Runs great be the shifter on the center console is a little hard to shift. ANY WAY TO LUBRICATE or ADJUST? Thanks!
 
Nothing worse than operating a boat with stiff cables. Badly spoiled I suppose, but I refuse.

New cable are not that expensive, nor are they hard to replace.

To see/confirm the cables are causing your issue, I would disconnect them at the motor and check the function of shifter and throttle that way. If Ok, it could be an adjustment or minor lubrication issue on the motor, but my bet is it's still going to be stiff. With motor end disconnected, you should be able to move that shifter with one finger easily.
 
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