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Timing a 318

JJ, you seem to be irritated at the way in which this thread is going.
This is a forum where we are free to share ideas... yes/no?
Let's keep it civil and friendly. :)


JJDebeers said:
Being an engineer in the medical device field, I evaluate product risk on a daily basis.
1.... I can tell you that I'd feel more comfortable using that digital algorithm than the timing tab on your engine.

2.... How do you know the tab is aligned properly? How do you know that the monkey who owned the boat before you didn't replace it with the wrong timing tab?

3.... In my case, my stbd motor doesn't even have a timing tab.

4.... Comparing an adjustable timing light to a timing tab is like comparing a scientific calculator to an abacus.

-JJ
Click to expand...

1.... Am I not using a timing tab and a TDC mark also?

2.... This demands two responses.
a... if the timing tab is not accurate, it doesn't matter which style timing light we use. The timing will be as accurate or inaccurate as the marks are.
b... we then perform a PPS procedure.

3.... So, are you suggesting that a digitally advancing timing light has the miraculous capability of seeking out and finding true TDC without any reference points?
JJ, we cannot time any gasoline Marine engine without some form of crankshaft angle indicator. The TDC markings reference crankshaft angle relative to the cylinder being timed... of which is usually #1.

4.... In your opinion. As long as we're clear on that, we can agree.




.
 
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RicardoMarine said:
JJ, you seem to be irritated at the way in which this thread is going.
This is a forum where we are free to share ideas... yes/no?
Let's keep it civil and friendly. :)



1.... Am I not using a timing tab and a TDC mark also?

2.... This demands two responses.
a... if the timing tab is not accurate, it doesn't matter which style timing light we use. The timing will be as accurate or inaccurate as the marks are.
b... we then perform a PPS procedure.

3.... So, are you suggesting that a digitally advancing timing light has the miraculous capability of seeking out and finding true TDC without any reference points?
JJ, we cannot time any gasoline Marine engine without some form of crankshaft angle indicator. The TDC markings reference crankshaft angle relative to the cylinder being timed... of which is usually #1.

4.... In your opinion. As long as we're clear on that, we can agree.
Click to expand...

1....I'm not using a timing tab as a TDC reference. I'm using the marks on the bellhousing and flywheel. By default, the nature of these components gives more confidence that they have not moved or been tampered with over the years. My stdb engine had it's timing tab removed, but it certainly still has a bellhousing and flywheel.

2...See note 1 for the accuracy the marks used.

3...See note 1 for my reference point.

4...Formula 1 race teams use digitally advancing timing lights not timing tabs. If it's good enough for Ferrari and Mercedes F1, then it's good enough for my boat.

-JJ
 
I've been on the side lines for a while Rick...just too busy. But I just had to knock on the door this time and say that it was just a matter of time before this topic reared it's ugly head again :mad:...I love it. I knew I've been missing out on something!
 
JJ, perhaps I should clarify something, so bear with me for a minute or two.

BTW, I don't believe that we're all that far apart here on our ideologies, with exception to how critical I believe Marine Engine ignition timing is.
IMO, it's all about Marine Load Detonation control, and LPCP and how we get there.


Whether Diesel or Gasoline, a piston engine must have a timed combustion event in order to place LPCP at the correct crankshaft angle. Many engineers will suggest that LPCP should occur at/near 12* to 14* ATDC.
Ask your High Performance Auto enthusiast friends..... they'll certainly know all about this.

With the Diesel engine, the combustion initiation event (injection) occurs ATDC.
With the Gasoline engine, the combustion initiation event (spark) occurs BTDC.
Spark Ignition occurs BTDC due to physics and the delay in which gasoline combusts (burns).

In order to time this event, we must know precisely where the piston is in it's travel relative to crankshaft angle AND the rate at which the burns occur.
In order to know this, we must index the crank, and make reference markings for later use.
I know of no way to this, without two (2) markings.
1... a mark that remains constant with the crankshaft.
2... a reference mark that remains constant with the engine block.

"1" is typically a TDC mark in a harmonic balancer, or a TDC mark in a flywheel.
"2" can be either a timing tab, a timing pointer, or notch at the open "sight port" within a flywheel cover (bell housing in the automotive world).

Either the harmonic balancer and timing tab/pointer........., or the flywheel mark and pointer/notch in the flywheel cover, can be used for Ignition timing purposes.
Would you agree?

If you do agree...., then the only difference between setting timing from the front of the engine -vs- using the rear of the engine, will be the markings at the balancer, or the markings that the flywheel offers.
The goal is the same. I.E., a combustion event relative to crankshaft angle.

A tab, a pointer, a notch, a degree marking, a decal, a paint pen marking......, you name it!
There all there for the indexing so that we can get the spark event to occur at the correct crankshaft angle, so that LPCP can occur as per the engineer's criteria.


JJ, I don't disagree that the timing chain cover tab can become damage, and may no longer be accurate... nor that an outer harmonic balancer ring could slip on it's inner hub.
In that case, I do like the flywheel indexing much better.
For I/B's it certainly practical, but for I/O's is not.


I'm failing to understand your comment re; "Formula 1 race teams use digitally advancing timing lights not timing tabs" and it's relevancy Marine Engine ignition timing.
Some of today's Automotive systems use Hall Effect triggering, and the means of Ignition timing plays off the Hall Effect system.
The Hall Effect triggering units are strategically indexed within the circumference of the flywheel.
Either way, and as your know...., there must be reference points.
No reference points...... no accurate ignition timing can occur.


.
 
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WoodieMan said:
I've been on the side lines for a while Rick...just too busy. But I just had to knock on the door this time and say that it was just a matter of time before this topic reared it's ugly head again :mad:...I love it. I knew I've been missing out on something!
Click to expand...
Hi Woodie. I've wondered where you've been.
You are certainly one who knows the importance of this, and understands how to achieve it.
Me... I'm such a hard headed NAZI on this! Been at it far too long to NOT give importance to it.

All it takes is to see a few engines that have detonated due to excessive ignition advance.
Also helps when you have first hand experience at seeing performance improvements when the correct ignition advance is applied.

.
 
What would a guy do if hey had to replace his distributor? Go off of the base? Has anyone had to do this and get there engine running fine by just adjusting the base?
 
Jfreeman1412 said:
What would a guy do if hey had to replace his distributor? Go off of the base? Has anyone had to do this and get there engine running fine by just adjusting the base?
Click to expand...
Good and fair question.

During the 440 timing thread, I made a phone call to Mallory. Even Mallory's tech dept could not tell me what the ignition curve and limit was for this engine.
They were able to confirm that their replacement distributor had the correct curve built into it.
Apparently you use the OEM BASE advance, and the rest is up to the distributor.

The information was very vague at best.

Chevy or Ford Marine....... no problem. I can show you those curves.
 
RicardoMarine said:
Hi Woodie. I've wondered where you've been.
You are certainly one who knows the importance of this, and understands how to achieve it.
Me... I'm such a hard headed NAZI on this! Been at it far too long to NOT give importance to it.

All it takes is to see a few engines that have detonated due to excessive ignition advance.
Also helps when you have first hand experience at seeing performance improvements when the correct ignition advance is applied.

.
Click to expand...

Here's another angle: could one consider that there's a reason why they came out with advance adjustable timing lights and balancer degree tape if one need not worry about what's going on above base timing? Not checking advance means always keeping your fingers crossed hoping that there is no major failure, and not taking advantage of what may be optimal performance. Having said all that, I confess that given we are advance curve challenged with some of our Chryslers, it's not always the easiest needle to thread. That doesn't mean it should be ignored. At the very least, it should be checked so proper measures can be taken if numbers seem too high. Hense our dilema in the last thread; we got some numbers but our gut told us something just didn't seem right so we erred on the safe side. But at least we know given our understanding of the mechanics and checking TA that theoretically, we are within safe limits. Check just the base if you must but at 3000 rpm things get really interesting if not set up properly!
 
You have two options if you want to play with the advance curve. You can order new springs from a dealer so you have new springs of the correct weight or you can determine the make and model of distributor and order a recurve kit. Too light of a spring will cause pinging and possibly detonation and too heavy of a spring will make it gutless.
Click to expand...

I found this....Question is if you put in new springs and clean the distributor would it ensure proper advancing?
 
Jfreeman1412 said:
I am not aware, But what are the pros and cons of switching over to electronic? Or is this already electronic?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure which system you currently have. In order to answer that question I'd need to know if you are asking about an electronic conversion, or a complete new distributor????
I'd avoid any conversion kits. The kits do absolutely ZERO to correct any worn distributor components that may have altered the advancing system.


Chrysler has been using VR triggering for years, and IMO, VR is a great system and is tried and proven.
Below is the VR (variable reluctor) ignition distributor shown in JP253's current Chrysler 318 speed and load thread.

The rusty looking center unit is the "reluctor" wheel.
The magnetic unit is the reluctor wheel "sensor" (the sum = triggering unit).
The centrifugal advancing flyweight and return spring system is underneath the plate.

attachment.php


WoodieMan said:
Here's another angle: could one consider that there's a reason why they came out with advance adjustable timing lights and balancer degree tape if one need not worry about what's going on above base timing?
Not checking advance means always keeping your fingers crossed hoping that there is no major failure, and not taking advantage of what may be optimal performance.
............
Check just the base if you must but at 3000 rpm things get really interesting if not set up properly!
Click to expand...
Amen to that!


Jfreeman1412 said:
Would this be a solution? No moving parts? Is considered electric? or just solid state?
http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/pc/MAL9-26305/CHR4-DISTKIT
Click to expand...
Jfreeman, that's Mallory's YLM series using Chrysler's tried and proven VR triggering (reluctor and magnetic sensor).
Excellent triggering system, IMO........... however, there is still moving parts inside of these!
You may be thinking of the EST systems. (EST = electronic spark timing)
The YLM is mechanical advance.... and I'm perfectly OK with that.

At the end of the day....... we still don't have a curve graph for the guys with old distributors that need to be checked and/or recalibrated. :mad:

Jfreeman1412 said:
I found this....Question is if you put in new springs and clean the distributor would it ensure proper advancing?
Click to expand...
Ah.... erh... well..... hmmm, sort of!
For this to work safely, we need to send the distributor out and have it set up on a distributor machine and by a qualified technician. They run these at operating RPM, and will see just where and what the progressive advance is doing.
The catch is.... We Still Don't Have an OEM Curve to provide the shop with.
The shop will always want the customer to provide the curve/limit.

I would discourage anyone from simply cleaning things up, throwing new springs in, and calling it good.
IMO, that would be even more so irresponsible than if setting BASE and walking away.


Jfreeman1412 said:
1.... How/where do you even find new springs?
2... Would you be better off buying a whole new distributor?
Click to expand...
1.... you can find them through many high performance shops as auto accessories.
2.... In many cases, yes, and we end up with a new housing, shaft, shaft bushing, new advancing mechanism, new VR unit, cap, rotor, etc.

Tahoerover said:
That is made by Mallory/Perstolite, the other choice is pertronix There are issues with both.
Click to expand...
Yeah..... I make every effort to steer clear of Pertronix "Hall Effect" units. I'm OK with "Hall Effect" intrinsically, but not with the way in which Pertronix does it. IMO, the Pertronix method is "cheesy" at best!

Mallory did have trouble with the YLU (photo-eye) several years ago, of which is another good reason to go with YLM VR.
Chrysler autos used VR technology from the early 70's until way into the 90's, I believe. Very few failures that I am aware of!


Disclaimer.... this is all just my opinion ONLY, and from my 45+ years experience at being rather anal on this stuff.
What you do is entirely up to you.

Good conversation, and good Foods for Thought!

.
 
Tahoerover said:
I bought a MSD and had it modified to meet marine spec.
Click to expand...

Jfreeman1412 said:
How so? What did you have modified?
Click to expand...
I kept this one separate.

Here are the issues with doing this, and again, IMOO.
  1. USCG regs require that gasoline engine ignition distributors be "Ignition Source" protected. This means protected against any spark source that could ignite gasoline vapors. Could be from contact points or from the spark arc betweem the rotor tip and cap plug wire tower contacts. These areas must be sealed so that no fuel vapors could become ignited.
  2. Automotive ignition distributors (older ones) often use a diaphram vacuum advance unit. This needs to be non-existant, and with no opening for a vacuum diaphram unit, or it will not meet USCG regs.
  3. Automotive ignition distributors offer an entirely different advance curve and limit. If used and/or not modified, this puts us closer to a potential spark lead (advance) that may cause detonation under Marine engine loads. Is this worth the risk?

Any company qualified to modify an automotive ignition distributor as to meet USCG regs, would no doubt need to be certified giving them the authorization to re-certify the ignition system.

One explosion caused by a Non-Certified ignition system, and with resulting injury or life loss, potentially gives an insurance company a free Get-of-Jail card. And believe me..... it will be revealed, unless the boat is not recovered.


Obviously, I'm erroring on the side of caution here. Do as you wish!


.
 
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RicardoMarine said:
JJ, perhaps I should clarify something, so bear with me for a minute or two.

BTW, I don't believe that we're all that far apart here on our ideologies, with exception to how critical I believe Marine Engine ignition timing is.
IMO, it's all about Marine Load Detonation control, and LPCP and how we get there.


Whether Diesel or Gasoline, a piston engine must have a timed combustion event in order to place LPCP at the correct crankshaft angle. Many engineers will suggest that LPCP should occur at/near 12* to 14* ATDC.
Ask your High Performance Auto enthusiast friends..... they'll certainly know all about this.

With the Diesel engine, the combustion initiation event (injection) occurs ATDC.
With the Gasoline engine, the combustion initiation event (spark) occurs BTDC.
Spark Ignition occurs BTDC due to physics and the delay in which gasoline combusts (burns).

In order to time this event, we must know precisely where the piston is in it's travel relative to crankshaft angle AND the rate at which the burns occur.
In order to know this, we must index the crank, and make reference markings for later use.
I know of no way to this, without two (2) markings.
1... a mark that remains constant with the crankshaft.
2... a reference mark that remains constant with the engine block.

"1" is typically a TDC mark in a harmonic balancer, or a TDC mark in a flywheel.
"2" can be either a timing tab, a timing pointer, or notch at the open "sight port" within a flywheel cover (bell housing in the automotive world).

Either the harmonic balancer and timing tab/pointer........., or the flywheel mark and pointer/notch in the flywheel cover, can be used for Ignition timing purposes.
Would you agree?

If you do agree...., then the only difference between setting timing from the front of the engine -vs- using the rear of the engine, will be the markings at the balancer, or the markings that the flywheel offers.
The goal is the same. I.E., a combustion event relative to crankshaft angle.

A tab, a pointer, a notch, a degree marking, a decal, a paint pen marking......, you name it!
There all there for the indexing so that we can get the spark event to occur at the correct crankshaft angle, so that LPCP can occur as per the engineer's criteria.


JJ, I don't disagree that the timing chain cover tab can become damage, and may no longer be accurate... nor that an outer harmonic balancer ring could slip on it's inner hub.
In that case, I do like the flywheel indexing much better.
For I/B's it certainly practical, but for I/O's is not.


I'm failing to understand your comment re; "Formula 1 race teams use digitally advancing timing lights not timing tabs" and it's relevancy Marine Engine ignition timing.
Some of today's Automotive systems use Hall Effect triggering, and the means of Ignition timing plays off the Hall Effect system.
The Hall Effect triggering units are strategically indexed within the circumference of the flywheel.
Either way, and as your know...., there must be reference points.
No reference points...... no accurate ignition timing can occur.


.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the long winded answer and for telling me a bunch of information that I already know. If your purpose was to look wicked smart in front of the non mechanically inclined, then congratulations.

Yes marks on the flywheel or balancer can both be used to set timing. That is not my argument. My argument is that the flywheel and bellhousing are less prone to alterations or other negligent actions that would affect their position and accuracy. For example, the timing tab on my stbd motor was removed. Therefore, someone, somewhere, at sometime, messed with the tab. On the other hand, the marks on my flywheel and bellhousing are intact. The guy who messed with my stbd timing tab, probably didn't even know that the marks on the flywheel even existed, and thank God for that.

My comment about F1 was simply to stress the fact that digital timing lights are the latest and best technology. This is regardless of the application, automotive or marine. The timing light works on the exact same principles for both applications.

You're comparing old methods to the newest technology. This is a losing argument for you from all aspects.

-JJ
 
Jfreeman1412 said:
How so? What did you have modified?
Click to expand...
A flame arrestor was installed in the vent. MSD has a Pro Billet line that are mechanical only advance. You do not want a vacuum advance in a marine app.

My engine is no were near stock and my dock has a long no wake zone. MSD uses multi spark discharge in the lower part of the RPM range. It helped smooth out my idle. It takes 15 minutes to get to open water from my dock and she would load up.
 
RicardoMarine said:
I kept this one separate.


Any company qualified to modify an automotive ignition distributor as to meet USCG regs, would no doubt need to be certified giving them the authorization to re-certify the ignition system.

One explosion caused by a Non-Certified ignition system, and with resulting injury or life loss, potentially gives an insurance company a free Get-of-Jail card. And believe me..... it will be revealed, unless the boat is not recovered.


Obviously, I'm erroring on the side of caution here. Do as you wish!


.
Click to expand...

Your mixing OEM and aftermarket. The marine racing aftermarket builds and fabs USCG spec parts all the time.
 
My gosh, JJ, from what I reading here, it appears as though any suggestions that do not align with yours, must be wrong!
This is an On Line forum, for crying out loud!!!!!! And one of the more polite forums, I may add.

We're free to post our opinions, be it good sound advice, or be it not so good advice!
As an On-Looker, we're free to interpret those opinions as we wish or as we're able to.
In no way am I suggesting that MY opinion is Gospel. It's simply an opinion that I am able to freely express here.
Would you agree?
Isn't this what these on line forums provide?

If we post a comment, and if we find that someone challenges or questions the comment, or adds to it, or asked for clarification....., don't we then roll with the bunches, and do so in an adult like manner?


JJDebeers said:
Thanks for the long winded answer and for telling me a bunch of information that I already know. If your purpose was to look wicked smart in front of the non mechanically inclined, then congratulations.
Had I been led to believed that you knew this, I'd not have wasted my time commenting on these bullet points for you.
Hopefully a few of the others benefit from it.

As for the "non mechanically inclined".... I sure hope that they can take something away from this, and perhaps use it.
Many are here because they are not fully mechanically inclined, and/or lack some of the experience.

Yes marks on the flywheel or balancer can both be used to set timing. That is not my argument. My argument is that the flywheel and bellhousing are less prone to alterations or other negligent actions that would affect their position and accuracy.
I have no arguement here at all.

For example, the timing tab on my stbd motor was removed. Therefore, someone, somewhere, at sometime, messed with the tab. On the other hand, the marks on my flywheel and bellhousing are intact. The guy who messed with my stbd timing tab, probably didn't even know that the marks on the flywheel even existed, and thank God for that.
Understood!

My comment about F1 was simply to stress the fact that digital timing lights are the latest and best technology. This is regardless of the application, automotive or marine. The timing light works on the exact same principles for both applications.
Again, no real arguement if the digitally advancing timing light is of high quality.
Your becoming so bothered by my posture on this, almost suggests that you own the pattent rights to the Digitally Advancing timing light technology.:rolleyes:
There's no need to take offense at someone else's opinion! Now.... blatant name calling or bashing.... yes! and I have not yet seen that in this thread.

You're comparing old methods to the newest technology. This is a losing argument for you from all aspects.
In your opinion!
Click to expand...

JJ, these on line conversations are never the same as if we were sitting down having a cup of coffee or a beer together. We can't post facial expressions nor post intended inflections, that would otherwise be understood during an actual face to face conversation. We're limited to text only, and a few smilies. We need to give the benefit of doubt when reading forum comments.

My apologies for your being upset! That was never my intention.


.
 
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Tahoerover said:
Your mixing OEM and aftermarket. The marine racing aftermarket builds and fabs USCG spec parts all the time.
Click to expand...
Sorry Tahoerover. Perhaps I misunderstood. I read your post as if you had modified an automotive distributor to fit a Marine application.
If MSD is qualified to make this mod, then I guess it meets the requirements.
 
RicardoMarine said:
Sorry Tahoerover. Perhaps I misunderstood. I read your post as if you had modified an automotive distributor to fit a Marine application.
If MSD is qualified to make this mod, then I guess it meets the requirements.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about MSD making the mod? Marine racing aftermarket does not equal MSD!
It was modified by a local marine race engine builder. Do you think a 1000hp custom marine engine in a 500k boat will have a off the shelf OEM distributor?


Do you think this runs a off the shelf distributor, or is uninsured because of it's custom engine?
 

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Tahoerover said:
It was modified by a local marine race engine builder. Do you think a 1000hp custom marine engine in a 500k boat to have a off the shelf OEM distributor?
Click to expand...
Certainly not!
I don't recal having read of this 1000hp custom marine engine in this "Timing a 318" thread until just now.
 
RicardoMarine said:
My gosh, JJ, from what I reading here, it appears as though any suggestions that do not align with yours, must be wrong!
This is an On Line forum, for crying out loud!!!!!! And one of the more polite forums, I may add.

We're free to post our opinions, be it good sound advice, or be it not so good advice!
As an On-Looker, we're free to interpret those opinions as we wish or as we're able to.
In no way am I suggesting that MY opinion is Gospel. It's simply an opinion that I am able to freely express here.
Would you agree?
Isn't this what these on line forums provide?

If we post a comment, and if we find that someone challenges or questions the comment, or adds to it, or asked for clarification....., don't we then roll with the bunches, and do so in an adult like manner?




JJ, these on line conversations are never the same as if we were sitting down having a cup of coffee or a beer together. We can't post facial expressions nor post intended inflections, that would otherwise be understood during an actual face to face conversation. We're limited to text only, and a few smilies. We need to give the benefit of doubt when reading forum comments.

My apologies for your being upset! That was never my intention.


.
Click to expand...

You are correct, in that I think your opinion is wrong. I agree with you that this is an online forum and you have every right to state to your opinion, and I in turn have every right to say that I think you're wrong.

Make no mistake, I'm not angry or upset. I simply think that your opinion and methodology is wrong.

Have a nice day.

-JJ
 
JJDebeers said:
You are correct, in that I think your opinion is wrong. I agree with you that this is an online forum and you have every right to state to your opinion, and I in turn have every right to say that I think you're wrong.

Make no mistake, I'm not angry or upset. I simply think that your opinion and methodology is wrong.

Have a nice day.

-JJ
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more.
 
Tahoerover said:
So just what does the marine racing aftermarket mean to you?
Click to expand...
Absolutely ZERO in Jfreeman's 318 Chrysler engine thread.
Is it possible to stay on task here for the sake of Mr. Jfreeman..... or do the two of you wish to take his thread further into the toilet?

And BTW, there is no mention of the 1k hp engine in post #49. So I'll ask.... just who is having an issue with sub par reading comprehension?


I'm sorry.... I don't normally become rude on these forums.... but you two seem to desire this on some level... and I don't quite understand that.
Mr. Jfreeman, I'm sorry for the disruption of your thread here... it's totally uncalled for, and is out of line.


********************************************

I am not upset nor angry either.... it's just a cyber conversation... nothing more than that.

Let's summarize this:

First... Jfreeman's thread (the one that we are reading) is regarding his 318 cu in Chrysler V-8 Marine engine. He has not been able to locate useful timing indexing marks.

Then incorrect ignition specs were posted for this 318 Chrysler engine thread. No harm/no foul.... we caught it.

The JJ suggested the digitally advancing timing light, but we still don't have any useful TA numbers for the 318 engine.
It becomes moot until then.

Then we clarified what 5* BTDC meant.

The the PDF file was posted, but lead to a dead end. No TA numbers again.

We were then referred back to post #15.... again, a dead end.

Then I said; "We can't make a curve from those numbers.... been there/done that!"

It was then suggested to: "Adjust your idle to 500-600 rpm and set your timing to 5* BDTC. That's your base timing.
When you're done, adjust your idle back to 750-850 rpm."
That's all great.... but what do we do without a TA spec?


Then it was asked; "why can't you make a curve?"
If anyone can make a successful and useable curve from those numbers, you're a better man than I am.
I've plotted them out, and they do not work for me!

I followed that with: "It's possible that I made a mistake when I plotted this out.
If anyone wants to take another shot at it, by all means please do."
No one has done so yet!


I then explained what occurs when a distributor goes bad... flyweights, springs, etc.
No challenges, so apparently we were all in agreement.


I then explained detonation for Jfreeman.


Then I explained why I am reluctant to use a digitally advancing timing light for Marine....yada yada yada, and so on.


Posts #29 and #30, JJ gets a bit nippy with me as though I'm trying to tell him how to do this.... and IMO, looses complete sight of this being a forum.


Then Woodie chimes in..... and I'll tell you, Woodie knows what he's talking about.
But you two can pay little attention to Woodie if you choose to. I know his experience level.


Post #34 I took the time to explain just why ignition timing is so important, but it appears as though it was futile to JJ..., in fact causing him to become upset over it as though I gravely underestimated his level of experience.
There was no implication to that affect what so ever. Conjectur!

BTW, Mr. Jfreeman has been a gentleman throughout the thread, and I want to help him, not turn his thread into a pissing match as apparently two members do.

I used a full disclaimer in post #45 as to ease the Nah Sayers a bit, and I did so politely.


I received a nice sarcastic response in post #47.

And not necessarily in order here, but it was mentioned that here on ME.com, no one has been able to successfully find OEM Chrysler Marine Corp ignition timing specs for this engine... other than BASE advance numbers.
Would it be safe to assume that we'd all like to see these numbers if they are available???? I sure would!



I then suggested viewing ignition timing in Real Degrees/Real Time using a standard timing light and fully marked off timing degrees, -vs- using the algorithm of a digitally advancing timing light.
This is my preference and an opinion ONLY........ Not marching instructions for anyone.... Sheesh!


Somewhere in the mix, I suggested against haphazardly changing flyweight springs without knowing fully what we are doing.
I think that it was also suggested that TA be checked, regardless of what an owner thinks his system is doing.
That can't be bad advice, can it?


So where is the issue that you are having?
Was my delivery not gentle enough for forum use?
Was I not simply sharing my experience, and as a suggestion ONLY?

**********************************************

Look, let's cut to the chase here. Wouldn't it be better for Jfreeman if his thread could remain on task, and that we could actually help him?
Instead of bickering back and forth over ideas and suggestions that are completely personal and opinions ONLY...., let's be grown ups, and offer the guy some real help.
If a member has nothing constructive to add to Jfreeman's thread, perhaps it would be best if these people were to bow out.

That is an Opinion ONLY!


.
 
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