MarineEngine.com - Your online store for all types of marine engines and boat parts.
PHONE ORDERS
Monday - Friday
9:00 AM - 5:00 PM EST
Click for TOLL-FREE Number
Online Checkout
Special $9.95 Flat Rate Shipping
(800) 209-9624 | Home | Contact | Shipping | Returns | Cart View your shopping cart.
Part Number Search
Shop by engine/drive part number.
Original & matching parts for sale.
Manuals & Accessories
Shop by description, item number
or manufacturer's model number.
Boat Repair Forum Boat Repair Forum   Boat Video Gallery Video Gallery
   
Get instant online access to repair manuals for your Mercury / Mariner outboard. Online Manuals
MercuryMariner
Order printed Mercury / Mariner service manuals — shipped to your door! Printed Manuals
MercuryMariner
Use engine diagrams to find & order parts for your Mercury / Mariner engine. Engine Diagrams
MercuryMariner
Find parts quickly with Mercury application guides. Quick Parts Guide
MercurySierraCDI
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Unhappy 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mariner serial number tag-14.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	54.7 KB 
ID:	4510 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSCF4711.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	51.6 KB 
ID:	4511 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSCF4721.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	70.6 KB 
ID:	4512
    I've had this motor/boat since the year after it was purchased. About 97 or 98.
    The Previous owner let the carb sit in too much of the stuff that's supposed to keep your gas usable. Ever since then, the Needle sticks.

    Every time I'm done with the trip or whatever, I pull the fuel hose off as I get close to the Beach. Then I run it dry.
    That way I never forget to drain the carb and leave the Needle valve dropped off from the seat. It works fine during the season. Every time I start it and run it I have not trouble.
    At the start of every season the Needle is stuck up into the seat.
    Every 'first trip' I have to pull the inlet hose off the filter, and blow hard to loosen up that needle. Then it will start easy. Usually first or second pull.

    I didn't use it at all last year. So the Needle is really stuck. and could not get the needle loose the normal way.

    I have the Carb off now.
    Looking at that Needle, I see the same thing B&S deals with in the newer carbs. A swollen rubber tip, sticking the needle.

    Do you guys see anything I missed?

    Maybe there is a little Stainless Spring wire to hold the Needle to the part that raises the needle?

    One of our sponsors has a Needle for sale.
    Last edited by thudpucker; 05-14-2012 at 02:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Ireland,the only country in the world you can go North to go South
    Posts
    1,343

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    I run my merc800 in a tank every couple of weeks,though I think that some places in the 'States that's not feasible.What about a metal tip instead of rubber?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    We tried that in the B&S carbs. It only works marginally and not very often. We normally just change out the needle and it works.
    I've struggled with this thing since 98 or so, every spring. I'm gonna fix it this time so I dont have to worry with it.

    PS: Some of my Family Named O'mara were from somewhere in Ireland. The boat left from County Cork, so when the Boat got to New York, all the Irishmen, when asked where they came from, all said "County Cork!" (my Irish Grandfather told me that one

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Ireland,the only country in the world you can go North to go South
    Posts
    1,343

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    The problem,as far as I can see, is the ethanol that they add in the 'States.It seems to make a mess of rubber,expands and breaks it down.Not a problem that we have here,YET,but I'm sure it's coming.They are adding linseed oil to diesel.
    So all I can say is change the needle every season,PIA,unless you can get a needle which is "ethanol proof".



    O'Mara,That's a Southern Ireland name,at least most of the O'Maras that I know come from down South,and Cork is known as "The Rebel County",I see they went South in the 'States as well. I'm from Donegal,North of the country and all of my relations went to "Philly". That would be one of the"Northern" states,wouldn't it? I see a pattern emerging here.
    Last edited by haventaclue; 05-14-2012 at 04:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    In 88 or so, every Fuel handling device was supposed to be "alcahol proof" but as everyone note's, it just aint so!

    I went over to the Lawn Mower shop this afternoon, looking for two things.
    One: a Needle that would work.
    Two: A light Stainless spring I could use to tie the Needle to the "hammer" that seat's the needle. When the float drops, the hammer drops too. At that time, the light stainless spring should pull the Needle down with the hammer.

    Is that an invention Idea? Hope the Mariner folks are listening and watching!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Queensland Australia
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    The above mentioned solution of using a metal only needle sounds feasible to me, what do others think?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,594

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Using a clip to pull down the needle is NOT a new idea at all. This has been common practice for years in many carburetors.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Ethanol strikes again! Have heard of this many times. I run my OBs dead dry everytime I shut them off. That seems to eliminate that (and other) carb problems.

    Jeff

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    If I could reproduce the smoothness of the surfaces of the Needle n' seat It'd go a long way toward avoiding the sticking.
    The cost of Mfg keep the older Stainless on Brass Needle n' Seat from ever being used again.
    The angle of the Needle/Seat meeting area and the two parts could be made differently to avoid 'Sticking' it seems to me!
    I would like to try using a Needle made of the same stuff the Plastic Gas Cans are made of.
    My Body parts are too Old to be monkeying around with little tiny stuff like that. But it sure sounds like a good thing to try.

    Also a Larger and flatter surface would be worth a try as well.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    I can't seem to find my Motor listed anywhere! Not on anybody's parts books!
    Any Ideas for me?

    Mariner 25M Ser. Number. 06522078 (It's a 1997 25 Manual) I sure wish it was Electric start!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Ireland,the only country in the world you can go North to go South
    Posts
    1,343

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    That number,I think,should read OG 522078,not 06. Here is a link to schematics http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/2525.cfm ,but if you need parts,it helps keep this forum going if you get your parts here at marineengine.com. Good luck

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SW Ohio, USA
    Posts
    10,278

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Delrin, a product of DuPont, was /is used in older manual parking meter clocks for the jewels on which the balance wheel would rotate back-n-forth for years and never wear out or need lubrication as the old synthetic jewels required. It is impervious to all chemicals. and seems that it would make an excellent tip for a needle or seat...JMT
    Fix minor things (replace wear items for preventative maintenance.) that cause major problems before they break.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    You are correcekect! I'ts indeed "OG...."
    And maybe the product your thinking of is Delrin. We used a lot of it too.
    And yes I'll buy from here, but I need a little Adult supervision. I couldn't find what I wanted this morning.

    PS: I found a spring in my stuff and fixed the needle so it follows the part the float works up n' down.

    Link me up with the advertisers on our site that need my business and I'll really like you!
    Dick

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Ireland,the only country in the world you can go North to go South
    Posts
    1,343

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    http://www.marineengine.com/parts/ma...5+%282+CYL.%29 .I think this is the place.
    I can't buy here 'cause they don't ship parts international,or at least they didn't,so I got used to going to another site,then again my obsession is a little older,'69 to be exact

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    When you run 'em dry after using them, the needle drops away from the seat so it doesn't stick.

    Think about it!

    Jeff

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Yessireeebob.
    I thinkedboutit! When I thinkedboutit like you want me to thinkedboutit I thinkedboutit long enough to get hungry and the danged thing was still not working like it should have.

    I know what your saying. That never happened though.
    The only reason I can think of is something that happens after I take that fuel line off the engine.
    Some how, air pressure maybe, that needle gets stuck upwards, into the seat.

    It's setting in the Sunlight now with the tank hooked up. in a day or two I'll go try out my invention.

    Today, the Mercury guy told me not to run it outta gas. That leaves too many places where the "Phases" of fuel can separate and then this 'clogging' or 'gluing' can take place in many parts of the system.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    ..."the Mercury guy told me not to run it outta gas. That leaves too many places where the "Phases" of fuel can separate and then this 'clogging' or 'gluing' can take place in many parts of the system. "

    There's a slight problem with his reasoning: Since the gas is burned up (and the rest evaporated) there is nothing left to "Phase" separate or do any other deviltry.

    More to think about!

    Jeff

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Think about this.
    Gas in a closed system does not evaporate. But it will separate into it's various parts if let set long enough.
    According to the Merc guy, 60-90 days is enough.

    I started a 32 Plymouth that sat in a garage for 15 years. Same gas he had in it when he last parked it.
    That was in the days before additives other than T-Lead in the mix.

    Any portal exposed to Air will allow an O2 exchange. That's why most Carbs have problems in the Idle or hi speed ports in the throats of the Carbs.

    In the loopy fuel lines, some of the heavier stuff will settle into the bottom of the loops. At the first start after a long rest, the 'new' charge of fuel coming from the tank has to move all that sludge along in front of it or mixed with it.
    That's easy enough in larger areas such as the fuel line.
    But when you get into smaller areas, the 'new' charge cannot penetrate.
    So those tiny jet passages have to be manually cleaned.

    The needle sticking is similar but not quite the same. Chemically the tip of that needle wants to be in that seat.
    So I made a mechanical change to clear the problem of those little itsy bitsy critters getting together in the dark places of the Carb.

    We've never had an Automotive based Chemist (SAE guy) explain some of these things in simple layman's language.
    The whole industry needs that kind of input.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,594

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    I just simply run fuel out of the carburetors when done --------Keeps carburetors CLEAN !!--------Listen to real mechanics not service advisors that are looking to impress with their " book knowledge " ------Many shops are on the take from what I read on these forums.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Yes we SHOULD run them outta gas. Pull the fuel line and let them run at hi Idle till they die. Crank it a few times to make sure it's dead too. I've been doing that since the folks told me to, way back in the late 40's.

    Other than the mouthpiece at Mariner/Merc, the only logical we shouldn't run them outta gas is that last few seconds of Oil starvation in the Crank case.

    All these chemicals in the fuel is a new thing. I seriously doubt we'll ever hear from the Chemists at the Oil company or the Toady's and Drones in the FED.
    We will have come up with a layman's answer before the people that know will even muster enough integrity to slobber on their tie!

    I have had some trouble with fuel pumps and dried cracked fuel lines. I sure hope the OEM's don't quit making kits for the fuel pumps. We'll never beat that problem out here in layman's land.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Well said. I've yet to see a carb that was 'sealed'. Not only can't that work (the fuel level settings require a vent) how would the engine get its gas!

    The bowls of my Carter AFB 4 barrels were virtually empty after sitting a week (after running--this is an inboard boat application). I do not run them dry--too awkward--yet the bowls were dry anyhow.

    Gas evaporates--quickly!--especially when sitting in a warm carb.

    Jeff

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Queensland Australia
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    I drive an early 70's Australian Chrysler and it is fitted with a Carter AFB 4 barrel, if it is allowed to sit for a few days the fuel evaporates to the fuel pump at least and takes a lot to wind over. My poor starter motor cops a hiding. I guess fitting an electric fuel pump that primes the carb on turning the key to ON would solve that issue. Back to boating - is there a reason for not using electric fuel pumps in outboards? - I'm guessing space could be a limiting fact. It's not hard to fit an aftermarket fuel pump to cars.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Excellent point! Tradition, I suppose, is the reason why they're virtually all vacuum pumps. Earlier ones used the dangerous pressure tank system.

    Jeff

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,594

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Nothing dangerous about an early style pressure tank. Very simple and reliable.------Probably safer than the pressurized fuel systems on the new HI-TECH outboards.-----------And Thudpucker , your point about oil starvation when a motor runs out of fuel means that you do not fully understand how a 2 stroke is lubricated.--------The oil that is in the motor does not instantly disappear when fuel supply stops !!!!!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    , NorthCentral Alabama,
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    I knew that RO.
    That is one major difference between expensive (OMC) oils and the cheaper oils. It actually happens with the Cheaper oils.

    Anyway I've been doing that almost all my life and have never lost a bearing yet.
    Now, because of the newer fuels, I'm going to start leaving the system full and see how that works.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SW Ohio, USA
    Posts
    10,278

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    ...is there a reason for not using electric fuel pumps in outboards?
    MONEY! The 2 cycle pressure pulse is a free power source to run the cheap low pressure diaphragm fuel pump.
    Fix minor things (replace wear items for preventative maintenance.) that cause major problems before they break.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,594

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Most outboards will run with a completely dead battery, the ignition is self energized by the magneto.----------An electric pump will not operate with a dead battery

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Good point!

    Jeff

  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Maui
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Metal needle valve sound great minus the sealing fuel from entering carb when float bowl is full!!!
    Running engine out of fuel is a great idea to help remove all the extra fuel pull the choke when starts dying

    Ive been experimenting with keeping the carb full all the time (although the expanding can be a factor) I find when I'm cleaning carb there is a yellow sticky varnish left from the last of the fuel drying out which is another cause of sticky float valves and clogged idle and main circuits carbs are vented so the fuel eventually evaporates and leaves the ethanol and what water it absorbed in carb. to plug every thing up the next time u hit that primer ball.
    So far keeping it full has been great for me I jus hit that primer ball every other week it will squeeze a little then stop saying the fuel entered the carb and now is full What do u guys think any one try this?????

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New Tripoli, PA, USA!
    Posts
    12,331

    Default Re: 25 Mariner, needle sticking at start of season.

    Not so. Ethanol evaporates along with the gas. That gook you see is what remains after SLOW evaporation of fuel left in the motor! Run it dry every time you shut down for the day, and the heat left in the motor will evaporate what's left.

    Jeff

Similar Threads

  1. 45 mariner can't keep carbs from clogging or sticking
    By pipemaster17 in forum Mercury Mariner Outboard Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-20-2011, 01:22 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-30-2011, 03:41 PM
  3. 1981 Mariner 30E sticky needle valve or
    By mnflaghunter in forum Mercury Mariner Outboard Archive
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-08-2009, 10:08 AM
  4. First time out this season
    By smchaplin in forum Mercruiser Sterndrive Archive
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-06-2009, 07:15 AM
  5. How often to start engine durring off season
    By my_heap in forum Volvo Penta Gas Archive
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-14-2007, 08:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •