1963 40hp Johnson RKL-25D

I am attempting to reseal leaky lower unit on my old 40HP johnson electric shift (novice first timer). leak appears to be between upper and lower gearcase and likely other locations as gearcase oil becomes milky after about 30min on the water and then motor no longer shifts into forward (I am assuming because viscosity is fouled up at this point, but perhaps there are other issues too).

I have the lower and upper gearcase off along with the 6 inch extension (the piece that makes this a long shaft model). I think I have identified all the required seals/orings required to complete the job, but not sure where to find a couple of parts and was hoping someone has experience with this range of motor (60's electric shift).

Specifically I am looking for 2 o-rings that go on either side of the 'adaptor' found inside of the 6 inch extension (the adaptor is part #83 on the parts schematic for this motor). The schematic does not show the o-rings, but they indeed are on my motor and seem required (my old ones look scored and a bit hard). I am calling them o-rings, but they are actually flat on top and bottom. They are about 1.25 inches ID and 1.5 inches outside diameter and about 1/8 inch thick.

Any advice on specific part # to order would be appreciated (either OEM or Sierra). I have several other questions as I attack the upper gearcase, so establishing a dialogue if anyone has experience with these motors would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

The adaptor is a " dummy waterpump " so to speak.------202591 is the o-ring that you need.-------Electric shift is very reliable and great stuff.-----------Do an ohms check on the forward coil and report the value.It should be the same value as the reverse coil.-------Pressure test after resealing to check your work.

ahhhh yes, makes sense. Thank you so much for your help. I agree with comments on electric shift, although it seems to have a bad reputation in some quarters. It seems like an elegent and simple design, as long as water and grit stays out of lower unit, all should be good.

I checked the forward coil and it is good at about 8 ohms, so will leave front end as is for now, and clean out gearcase of very old (semi solid) gearcase oil. Any recommendations on what to use as a solvent that wont damage coil / front bearing that i would like to leave in the case?

Got a couple of additional questions if you don't mind. When removing/installing the prop shaft seal in the gearcase head, that can be done from the rear (propeller) side, so I can leave the bearing in place, correct? (I am new to this in all respects!).

When reattaching lower gearcase to upper gearcase and upper to exhaust housing, should I coat the surfaces to be joined with 'sealer 1000?' or equivalent. Thanks again for the help.

202591 is the correct o-ring here.----Just wash it out with varsol.-------------Pry the propshaft seal out and push in the new one.-------------Electric shift is very good / reliable and simple too.----------They are scoffed at by folks who " just do not know " how they work.

These units use an oil called ----" Type -C " or now called " Premium blend "-------Use only the correct oil !!

These electric shift units are wonderfully simple in the way they operate.---I have never run into a " sticky clutch " that could be fixed by ATF on any 40 HP electramatic.

Thanks for the assistance racerone and kimcrwbr1.

My required parts for sealing lower gearcase are on on order and I am now turning my attention to the upper gearcase where I have a few additional questions and wondering if anyone had a point of view.

The upper gearcase on my engine is in pretty bad cosmetic shape (with part of the cavitation plate broken off and general pitting). Good news is I have a parts motor, same exact model (except po removed extension and converted to short shaft) with a good looking upper gearcase. My plan is to swap the 'parts' upper gearcase to my 'running' engine (previous owner did points and carb kit on 'running' motor couple years ago), but I don't know for sure if the internal workings of the upper gearcase (primarily bearings) of the 'parts' motor is sound. The oil in the 'parts' motor looked very brown and dirty, so have some reason to be concerned.

I have pulled the lower gearcase from the upper on the 'parts' motor and wiring, impeller housing, all look fine as well as the 20 needle bearings that droped out. I am contemplating whether to simply flush/clean the inside of this parts upper gearcase with mineral spirits/brake cleaner/WD 40 and attempt to clean out the bearing assemblies that way vs pulling it apart.

I have the manual (for 1964 evinrude Lark) which covers 1963 as well and the evinrude for that year appears to be identical to the Johnson (except for the cowl/paint). The manual references a bunch of special tools needed and it appears the upper pinion bearing will get sacrificed in the process, hence my thought that I should try cleaning without disassembling and see if it works.

Perspectives from the experienced would be appreciated, and if the view is I should tear down the upper, can I do it without 'special' tools (improvise?). Will any other bearings likely be damaged in the process beside the upper pinion, assuming reasonable care is taken? Seems the upper pinion is reasonably priced and available on this site, while lower pinion is $100+ and in very limited supply.
Thanks again.

Both motors are electric shift, same model.
Regarding the lower gearcase (the 'bullet'):
As of now I have the lower gear case completely disassembled with exception of pulling 1) the forward coil and bearing (which I gather from other posts that I could remove with heating the front of the bullet with a torch. 2) I have not disassembled the clutch hubs to clean beneath the springs/etc either, but contemplating that task as it appears it may be gritty and 3) I have seals out, but have not pushed out the bearing from the gearcase hub.

With regards to the upper gearcase, which was topic of my prior post, I haven't tackled with exception of removing impeller and driveshaft. I do have the OEM service manual and I after reading I am concerned that I may damage bearings during removal without special tools or guidance from someone who has experience with this motor, particularly since it is mentioned in the manual the upper pinion bearing will be ruined on the way out. kimcrwbr1, it sounds like your instructions were for manual shift, right?

Thanks. I gave it a try and got the front bearing out and cleaned it up. Thanks for the guidance, really helps a first timer.

I still have some reservation in removing the gearcase head bearing simply because my OEM service manual says 'discard the upper pinion bearing, the upper driveshaft bearing, and the gearcase head bearing if these have been removed as the thin steel case housing the needles will be damaged in removal'. Just want to double check that you are saying that the gearcase bearing should be fine if removed and I can reuse?

By the way, I did end up disassembling the rear clutch hub as the bearings were making a rough noise and hanging up. I cleaned them and reassembled, but same problem so I think rear clutch hub bearing is bad - I will need to check my other motor and see if that bearing is a potential replacement or see if new is available.

If you warm these housings with a small propane torch then the bearings may fall out by themselves.The upper driveshaft bearing will certainly come out easier if heat is used.-----Done that many times.

OK, will heat gearcase head and take bearing out as suggested. Looks like a beer and torch are the next step then! Any guidance on how much heat to apply?

On the upper gearcase, would I need any other tools to persuade them out if the heat alone doesn't do the trick? Does it matter what side I start with, bullet end or impeller end? Do you also reheat housings when putting them back in? Sorry about the detailed questions!

thanks for the tips kimcrwbr1, I successfully removed all of the bearings in the upper/lower gearcase. The only one that seems to not be good is the one inside the reverse hub, all of the others seem to check out ok. When I reassemble, the service manual says to use sealant 1000 between the upper and lower gearcase, under the impeller housing, between cable retainer/gearcase/rear stud nut....
...but doesn't say anything about using sealant between upper gearcase and extention leg and extension leg and exhaust housing? Is there any sealant that should be used between upper gearcase and extension leg and extension leg to exhaust housing?

thanks kimcrwbr1. Do you also use this between the top of the extension housing and the bottom of the exhaust housing? On the bearings, I am thinking about changing them out just to be safe as it seems both the one just under the impeller plate and the upper pinion bearing are standard Torrington bearings and available for $10 apiece - would these be the bearings that would need replacing if there was too much gear lash (please don't say it would be the lower pinion, as that is big $)?

I also found a parts motor, same model as my running motor and it was cheap. I disassembled the gearcase on the parts motor today and compared each part to my running motor and found that the forward clutch hub assembly on the two motors aren't the same! The spring on the forward hub on my running motor doesn't have a 'ridge' manufactured into the spring - instead it is flat throughout and identical to the reverse gear's spring. The parts motor's forward hub spring does have a 'ridge', which is the way I think it is supposed to be (based on the description in the manual). I suppose this may be one of the reasons I was having problems with the motor not engaging 'forward' gear properly. The actual hub inside of the spring has the cross-hatching like it is supposed to, just the spring appears to be wrong - guess someone else dug around in there before me!

I really appreciate the helpful response - thanks again.

They changed the design of the springs over the years and that is nothing to worry about !!-------They changed the design to try and cure these from slipping on hard acceleration.--------No need to worry about " gear lash " on the electramatics as there was no shimming needed.--------------Precision parts means no need for shimming !!

Thanks. Can you recommend which of the forward gears in the picture I should choose to reinstall? The two gears on the top (one on the top left is forward) were from my 'running engine' although I was having problems with the 'running' engine in forward (forward wouldnt work when i got the boat), I replaced gearcase oil with type c and it ran fine for about 1 30min trip, and then same problem where it wouldnt engage and oil a milkshake). The two gears on the bottom are from the 'parts' motor (again forward is on the left). Not only does the forward spring have a raised profile on the spring, but there is a difference on the outer edges of the splines - they protrude abit from the rest of the gear. Any thoughts on which is the better design to reinstall?

Also, when putting everything back together, do I put any sealant on the metal to metal contact the seals make before I press them in (for example, on driveshaft seal, where seal contacts the housing?), if so, what kind?

On the impeller - want to make sure I bend vanes in correct direction, if I am holding the impeller housing upside down in my hand, impeller would spin counterclockwise, correct (in other words, it spins clockwise when installed right side up)?

Rookie questions - thanks for the assistance!

Wrong method of assembling the pump !--------------First you put the impeller on the shaft.Then push housing down , while turning the driveshaft in the normal direction that the motor runs.------The best way to do this simple job.--------------The driving action of the spring occurs on the inside and the outside profile of the spring does not matter !The gears all look and work the same.---Have you eliminated electrical problems for the " no shift condition "

Understand regarding your instructions regarding impeller assembly steps, but not sure on which direction the drive shaft normally spins...do you know if it is clockwise on these engines? How do I tell?

Regarding eliminating electrical, I was getting engagement of the magnet both forward and reverse and both magnets seem to check out ok with the multi-meter, so guessing it is a mechanical engagement issue. The symptom went away with new gearcase oil, but returned after a short run on the lake, so I am guessing issue is due to change in viscosity of oil from being mixed with water (it was full of water after just 30min), but don't know. Guess it could be a problem with the forward hub or spring (or perhaps magnet works intermittently and I just got 'lucky' when I tested it).

Given my problem was 'forward engagement' of the clutch hub and milkshake oil, is it likely the two are related and the problem of 'forward engagement' while be fixed with sealed lower end? How can I tell if a forward clutch hub is in good condition, is it simply no maring/wear on the knurled cylinder? How can I tell if a spring is 'bad'. Given springs are interchangeable, guess I have two alternatives to try from my parts motor!

Look at the flywheel when you engage the starter.------------Now turn the driveshaft the same way when installing the pump.

Got it on the impeller, thanks! Yes, the model number is the same on both, and it appears other than the front clutch hub, all other parts look identical between the gearboxes. All the bearing numbers are identical as well, including the ones in the rear clutch hub. The only thing that is different is the spring design and the slight difference on the leading edge of the gear teeth of front gear. Pinion gear appears identical too. I agree with the view of using the parts motor gears given I have an issue with my running moter, and I guess I should probably take the 'set' (front, pinion, reverse) just in case there is slight difference in how the teeth mesh (even though I know the reverse gear was working on the 'running' motor). Hopefully I can get this bad boy back together - just waiting for a couple of new bearing sets to arrive.

On the gears, makes sense what racerone indicated - that design was slightly tweaked over the years. The parts I see for sale on the internet when I do a search on the part # for the front hub show examples of both designs (but same part #!). I just can't tell which is the 'latest' design (assuming later is better). I don't think I am going to sweat it though, just take a pick and hope they work!

Hopefully I will have the same luck as you, although some advice I have gotten is to sell the motor once it is repaired as it is electric shift and parts are expensive/unit unreliable. On parts front, buying one off parts like 'springs' for gearcase, are expensive, but seems that can be avoided as there always seems to be a big twin electric shift for sale somewhere for cheap, and it doesn't seem that there was any main culprit with regards to a single part that always fails (therefore good replacements shouldnt be hard to harvest).

On the electrical side, not sure how good components are on my 'runner', and they are missing on the 'parts motor'. I know that the ammeter in the boat wasn't showing anything (broken meter, bad wiring or no juice), but I didn't check it out prior to taking motor off boat in the fall to refurb the boat over the winter, so there could be some issues there and appreciate the info on potential parts!

The starter seems to be working fine, but I doesn't appear to be original part to the motor as it is shorter than the one on my parts motor and I am not keen on how close the +positive terminal is to the engine (and - ground!) as it is mounted with positive terminal facing inward. The one on parts motor looks like original equip, but sometime doesn't fire when jumped, so not sure if it is serviceable or not). Sorting the electrical is next on the list after the lower is reattached as I don't want to run motor without cooling. Is there any procedures I can undertake on electrical while I am waiting for lower unit bearings?

Anything " electric " is not well understood.--------------The concept of electric shift is ingenious / well engineered / very reliable as well.-----------------Simple maintenance will keep it working for a long, long time.--------When people start guessing as to how it works and start doing the wrong things it leads to trouble.----------Had a 100 HP brought to me one time and owner said there was no reverse and had been told it was not worth fixing the reverse function.--Apparently the shop jumped to that conclusion.-----Quick test showed that wire had fallen off the switch so no voltage was applied for reverse.---Easy fix that one.

That is encouraging to hear - funny there is such an extreme range of views on this line of motors. Quick question which has been giving me a headache - what type of sealer should I use to seal the gearcase upper and lower and what type of thread sealant on the bolts. I have surmised that 3M 847 is the current replacement for Sealant 1000 and should be on upper and lower joining surface and OMC gasket compound / perfect seal # 4 on the bolts. Are there suitable replacements? I have searched the threads and see also sorts of conflicting information.

I cant even find the above specified products online at one retailer to avoid double shipping charges. What have you guys been using with success?

Thanks for the tips on checking the generator - will give a whirl.

An updata regarding gaskets & sealer question in my last post - based on some research I was planning on using permatex aviation gasket sealer #3 on the areas where OMC 1000 sealant is specified, and Permatex High Performance thread sealer where Perfect seal # 4 is specified. I can get both locally.

I have also found 3M 847 and OMC gasket compound about 40 minutes drive (one way) at twice the price. Do my above substitutions pass muster or do I need to make a road trip?

Calling out to kimcrwbr1 and racerone or anyone else with experience assembling electric shift gearcase for 1963ish 40HP electric shift ....Finally got a chance to get back to my project and I am installing the front bearing race in the gearcase nose...how do I know when it is properly seated/fully installed? After driving it in flush with the top of the surface machined out of the nose for the race, it seems the back of the race isn't yet fully against the back surface of the gearcase nose (the depth machined out is deeper than the race itself)? It seems the race is now about 1/8 inch, maybe 1/16 off the back surface of the nose, but the front of the race is flush with surface of the area machined out for the race?

That said, when I put the bearing in the race and the prop shaft in the bearing and put the back gearcase head on the back, it seems the prop shaft sticks out of the gearcase head the proper amount - implying the race is set in the right amount. Any guidance on whether the race is supposed to stand off the back of the nose a bit - which frankly seems to make sense as it would seem the designers would have left a wee bit of room behind the race to allow the special puller tool to get behind the race for removal (vs the propane torch removal method employed when I removed the race). Any thoughts would be appreciated. I had a really tough time getting the front coil out, so before jamming that back in, I want to make sure the front race is set properly. Thanks in advance!

Unfortunately I took the one out of the other gearbox as well and as race dropped out along with forward magnet, I didn't get a looksee at how it was seated. For some reason race didn't slide in so easily into its current position. Maybe I need to get the nose hotter, although it was smoking hot when I attempted last night. Correct me if I am interpreting wrong, but sounds like you think it should be seated all the way to the back (until metal to metal on back side of race to nose - right?

The factory had a set of special puller tools to remove and install these parts.------Installer kept things true and straight for easy assembly.

Thanks for the good questions and advice - problem is now solved on the bearing race thanks to your post! I did heat it up again and got the race in a little further and did a dry fit and while I don't have the proper tools to measure the end play, it appears to fit pretty snug, but with tiny tiny bit of play. What threw me off is that while both my gearcases have the same part #, the machining on the inside is indeed slightly different. While I thought my race wasn't pressed in all the way (even after getting it in a little further), turns out it is was.

in case your interested in the blow by blow...here's what happened after I read your last post...I put the race in my original 'beat-up' gearcase to see how it fit and it went in just like you described, and was clearly seated and I compared it to how the race looked in the 'good parts' gearcase (the one I prefer to use and was struggling with). In the 'beat-up' gearcase, the race lip sits about 1/16-1/8 inch below the top of the hole the race is inserted in when fully seated. The magnet then installs and sits flush on the top of that surface. On my 'good parts' gearcase, the top of the race fits flush with the top of the hole the race is inserted in!!!What gives?

Well turns out that on my 'good parts' gearcase, however, there is another small shoulder that is near the wall of the gearcase, that sits about 1/16-1/8 inch above the surface of the hole that holds the bearing race. In this gearcase the magnet sits on this shoulder (vs the surface at the top of the bearing race hole on my 'beat-up gearcase). This difference in the machining is what threw me off kilter for a bit. So while the gearcases are almost identical. they differ slightly. It doesn't impact how the rest of the parts are installed/fit. But it did create some confusion.

As a note, it was really hard getting the forward magnet out of my 'beat-up' gearcase (had to improvise and make a 'puller'), likely because the magnet had calcified (hard water in gearcase?) to the flat machined surface. On my 'parts' motor, however, the front magnet dropped right out when heated in part probably because the magnet only sat on this narrow shoulder!

Thanks again.

So anyway, this hurdle is resolved and I will put the gearcase back together tonight.

whew!, lower gearcase is reassembled - thanks kimcrwbr1 and Racerone! Really had to heat that nose up smokin hot to get the front coil back in with moderate tapping of the mallet, somewhat surprised the wires didnt' melt. Powered the coils and they seem to be responding ok too. Also, working that big snap-ring with needle nose pliers vs proper tool is a bit of a challenge - but it is in!

I have yet to put the gearcase head with 0-ring and prop shaft seal in - leave that for the next session. I have both the evinrude/johnson gasket compound and 3M847 on hand. Should I spread a little of the gasket compound aroung the o-ring before I install gearcase head? Also, spread some around the outside edge of seal that contacts the gearcase head or not? Not sure what the proper method is - any suggestions from the forum?

Ok, I am ready to hit the upper gearcase and wanted to confirm a couple of things if possible before I leave the lower gearcase...the pinion gear should just be loose at the top of the lower gearcase, as in picture, where it will be inserted into to upper gearcase when reassembled? Correct? I ask because in my service manual, on the lower gearcase assembly steps it says the following

'step d:...using the propeller shaft, install forward gear assembly. Propeller shaft must again be removed to permit installation of pinion gear. Install pinion gear , with thrust bearing and washer in place. Holding pinion gear in place, install propeller shaft and reverse gear assembly. e: install reverse coil, carefully feeding...etc"

The part I underlined above is what is confusing me as I don't see any 'thrust bearing' that was part of the lower gearcase assembly? All of the parts from the lower gearcase and the assembled lower gearcase are below:






I thought the thrust bearing was in the upper gearcase and sits above the lower pinion bearing (not shown in above pictures). Do I have something wrong? Also, before I button-up the lower gearcase with new seals, do I put any gasket sealant around o-ring that goes on gearcase head (not yet installed) or is it just pushed in 'dry'? Thanks for seeing me through the reassembly kimcrwbr1 and racerone!

Thanks for the guidance, will put the thrust bearing & washers back in the place where they came from - above the lower pinion bearing [I must admit I don't understand how the thrust bearings establish gear lash between drive shaft & prop shaft. Seems the thrust bearings / washer assembly is designed to exert/take force in the vertical direction, but what surface is pushing against the thrush bearing washers themselves - guess I will ponder that a bit as I reassemble the upper gearcase.]

Another simple question for a first timer, when I put the prop shaft seal in, should I just press that in "dry" or should the outer edge that contacts the gearcase head be dressed in sealant or something else?