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Honda BF150 intermittent starting problem?

Gt fish

Member
I am having an intermittent starting problem with one of my 150's. It will crank but not fire..Let it sit and it fires up..Does not shut off when running. I have tried the following..

Replaced both ignition ket switches
Disconnected Kill switch (No affect)
Swapped Key switches (Both motors wouldn't start at times?)
Checked voltage(Good)
Checked Batteries(Good)
Checked Positive and Grounds(good)
Alternator(good)
Fuel pump(good)
It will start when it's cold or in the morning. The other day I went fishing started at the ramp idled for a while waiting on friends. Turned it off and it wouldn't start again.Putted out on 1 motor and tried again about 20 mins later started and ran all day. Got back to the ramp put it on the trailer and turned it off and it would not start. Got home it started right back up?
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It runs fine just getting it started seems to be the hard part. I don't think it is a fuel issue due to it running fine..I hope someone has had dealt with something like this before..I am STUMPED!
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WOW - my initial thought is that it sounds like a vapor lock problem, but the Honda VST is supposed to overcome that issue. I'm a 225 owner, but I think the 150 has a VST similar to the 200/225. When is the last time you drained it? It may be worth your while to pull the VST, clean it thoroughly, check the needle valve, and replace the high pressure fuel filter while you're in there.
 
WOW - my initial thought is that it sounds like a vapor lock problem, but the Honda VST is supposed to overcome that issue. I'm a 225 owner, but I think the 150 has a VST similar to the 200/225. When is the last time you drained it? It may be worth your while to pull the VST, clean it thoroughly, check the needle valve, and replace the high pressure fuel filter while you're in there.
Yeah i highly doubt this is fuel related. The boat runs like a champ..The only problem is starting intermittently..I have had fuel issues in the past and it will sputter or not run right..This seems to be electrical..
 
Could be, but eliminate the obvious - check & drain the VST.

If it IS electrical, it is most likely a loose or corroded ground connection.
 
It does sound to be electrical...but who knows?

If I am reading correctly...you said it is hard to start and sometimes it does not stop?

The first place I would check is the 14 pin connector on the motor where the wiring harness connections to the engine. Make sure all wires are not just hanging on to each pin and disconnect the connector to check the pins for corroded, bent or pushed in pins. There may also be some breaks in the wiring inside the wiring harness, especially as it enters the engine or where it enters the boat. The easiest way to check is by trying to run the engine with a known good harness and keyswitch assembly. (That is what the dealer does)..

If you can move your harness from the other engine to the one that is failing for a test, that could be your test harness. It just depends on how your boat is rigged....if you have enough to stretch over.

As a last resort, if you can not do that...if you can not get the motor to start, as you are trying to start have someone wiggle the harness on the engine, along the wiring harness coming from the engine, and the wiring harness under the console. Do the same thing if you can not get it to stop. If the wiggling causes a change in what is doing, then you are on the right track in the right place.

I would also find every sensor and disconnect it and clean the connections...especially the crank position sensor and the cam position sensor (which is call the TDC sensor). Reseat several times. You may not be able to get to all of them.

Also, pull all your fuses and check/clean for corrosion. Reseat several times.

Unfortunately, a bad sensor connection does not explain a no stop condition.

The one other item to check if all else passes is to test the main power relay. I have seen these go bad and cause both conditions intermittantly. Check the service manual for a detailed test.

After that, it takes getting the wiring diagram and following voltages through the harness and engine.

That is where a good dealer will shine and get you back on he water. Intermittant troubles are the worst to trouble shoot and sometimes it takes a long time, even for the best of dealers to track it down. If it is not failing, everything may check out fine until it does fail.

Mike
 
Thanks Mike, I don't have any trouble stopping the motor.What i meant was it never loses power once running. Just starting and i did check the fuses and they were all good. The weirdest part was when i switched the key ignitions from the motors neither would start. I am going to try to take off the cover tomorrow to get at the harness plug.

What do you mean by main power relay? Is that in the console or motor?
Thanks
Pat
 
It is on the front of the engine. See part #18 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard%20Engine/2005/BF150A5%20LA%20VIN%23%20BANJ-1100001%20TO%20BANJ-1199999/STARTER%20CABLE/parts.html.

It has the ECM power relay, the starter relay, and the fuel pump relay inside.

If both engines failed after switching switches, better make a special check at the connectors and wiring around the switches or at the end of the wiring harness. Either that is your problem (or part of your problem) or you caused something else to fail in making the switch (no pun intended).

Mike

Mike
 
I swapped parts from my other engine..

The main relay = No change.
The ECR =No change.
Wiring harnesses from port to starboard = No change
Some other Relay = No change.
CRAP!
 
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Messed with it today.. I was cranking it and it stopped cranking altogether. I wiggled the ground on the motor and it started up again. I ran a new ground wire and changed the high PSI filter..Waiting on a friend to get home with the proper crimping tool.
 
If it is not even cranking, then the dealer should be able to find the problem faster. Thus, cheaper for you.

If it is back to intermittant operation, then all bets are off enless it fails for them.

Mike
 
It could very well be a vapor lock at Chawk suggested. Are you in an area where it is normally cold during the winter and it is now higher than normal temperatures?

If so, you may have winter formulated gas in the tank and in hot weather and when the engine heat up, it tends to vaporize before it makes it to the injectors.

If the above may be your situation, try running the engine without the hood and before you turn it off let it idle for 3 or 4 minutes. If you have no trouble starting after that, it is most likely vapor lock.

If so, when you get summer formulized fuel, that will go away.

There are other things to do to minimize vapor locking, but these two seem like the simplest without any investment.

As you can tell, we are all just guessing without knowing things like fuel pressure, condition of spark, condition of fuel, condition of spark plugs, or knowledge of what the sensors and ECM are doing.


Just a hunch...

MIke
 
No i'm in Jupiter Florida..It has been hot for months..The there motor does not do this. i really hate to take it to a shop. The last guy was an idiot and I told him check the fuel pump.Well he racked up hrs. in diagnosing and it ended up being the fuel pump.This is my last resort before taking it in.Thanks for the suggestions i will report back.Hopefull this thread can help others someday.
 
Need to go back to basics.

At failure, is you squeeze bulb hard?
When you turn the key switch to on, do you get a couple of beeps and do all four lights come on for two seconds? If the key is still on is the battery charge light still on?
 
yes...squeeze bulb tight?
yes....couple of beeps?
no....lights come on for two seconds then go off?
no...the battery charge light does not stay on (when the other lights go off)?

MIke
 
Well, the charge light is supposed to stay on as the other lights go out if the engine is not running.

Check #5 fuse for corrosion, connections, etc. This by itself, should not cause a no start, but it might be linked to something that is. If you have not already, check all of the fuses and fuse holder for proper connections, corrosion, and proper voltage. What those voltages when you try to crank...see if any of them go away or significantly reduce.

Have someone listen at the vst to see if the fuel pump runs for 2 seconds when when you turn the key to on.

I am also assuming it is still not even cranking when it is failing...check to see if there is any clicking on the engine when you turn the key switch to start.

Also, see if there is 12v going to the starter on the white wire if the key is turned to start. There should be.

As I look at the circuit, there is one other big item that I forgot. If you are getting no voltage on the whitel lead, then check the neutral safety switch on the engine and make sure that the detent is centered on the switch. If you hold the key switch in start and move the shift handle back and forth slowly and the engine starts to crank....that is you problem.

As a side note, if you have little faith in your mechanic, it might be wise to invest in an official Honda Manual from helminc.com to help you through some of the more complicated troubleshooting. Well worth the money, if you are depending on yourself.


Mike


I am also assuming it is still not even cranking when it is failing...check to see if there is any clicking on the engine when you turn the key switch to start.
 
Dealership is claiming it is the High pressure fuel pump..This will be the 4th one on this motor..The other failures were due to water in the gas via the breather tube. I have since corrected this problem and have had no water in my gas..I hope these guys aren't parts hangers..Uhg..I have changed my own pumps many times. They only charged me 1 hr so I can live with that. I just don't see how it never fails while the boat is running. The other times it would surge and struggle to maintain speed. Hmmm...
 
From your previous descriptions, that is about the last thing I would have suspected. Careful!!! I've seen very little traffic on this or other forums about the HP fuel pump failing. Filter getting clogged - yes. But the pump failing - No. They are apparently very rugged and very reliable. And when they fail, they tend to fail completely. Mike will know a lot more about that than I do.
 
From your previous descriptions, that is about the last thing I would have suspected. Careful!!! I've seen very little traffic on this or other forums about the HP fuel pump failing. Filter getting clogged - yes. But the pump failing - No. They are apparently very rugged and very reliable. And when they fail, they tend to fail completely. Mike will know a lot more about that than I do.
Well in the past when subjected to water in fuel it would surge and struggle..It always started the motor..I am just not sue I believe their diagnoses..
 
Four pumps seem like a lot. It is true that they do not like water and can easily fail if water gets in the system. I hope they changed out the screen under the pump also.

They can be intermittant if going bad.

Did I misunderstand....I thought it would not even crank when it failed. A bad fuel pump normally would not keep a motor from cranking unless it was drawing too much current...then maybe it would not crank.

Hope this fixes the problem....only time will tell.

Mike
 
No it always cranked,except for the bad ground wire..That may have lead to me replacing the starter last month..Maybe it made the pump draw to many amps..I just feel that it would fail at some point while running. Why would it only fail on startup..weird..
 
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