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  1. #1

    Default Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Hi fellas im really new around here ive made one post before about my boat.
    The problem i am having is when i run the engine for a very short time like 2 mins it seems to be very hot.Questions that i have are
    1:Can the water bypass thermo stats if they are not opening?(pulled them out put in boiling water and opened fine??)
    2:My old 83 200hp cross flow previous engine i had on it which this one replaced the temp sensors it had were the little brass ones that screwed into both heads this engine has them but also has different things that screw into the head which i think are the sensors on this engine but need you guys to help me out?i plug brown wire into my wire coming from dash (also it is the wire that used to plug into my earlier engine)The temp guage when i start it the guage goes up a little bit then jumps straight up like in the video.
    which is the correct sensor??

    heres a vid of what is happening and also with about another minute of running its hard to hold your hand on the block seems to hot to me for that amount of time?

    Heres the video link that pic link doesnt seem to wrk
    http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/k...t=IMG_0628.mp4





    Also in the video do you think that the water takes to long to start pumping properly?The guy i bought it off just replaced waterpump in it before i bought it(showed me receipt).

    I havent drove the boat yet because of the worry of cooking it it seems to idle perfect and rev but i just think it seems to be very hot to quick.I just cant see how it can get that hot so quick maybe timming way advanced or something i dunno?? id just like some opinions.The vro has been dissconnected but thats a whole other stroy im not sure if its been done correctly if i dont plug my temp wire in i get a intermintent(spelling lol) beep i think this means fuel flow??not sure i shouldve just rebuilt the ol 200 do you think all the wireing from my old controls will be ok to use they all seem to plug in the same.

    can someone please tell me what this valve is?


    ill just add these other photos and see if anything pops out to you experts



    This is the boat shes on!!
    Last edited by lewis tornado; 12-23-2011 at 11:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA, USA
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    172

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Your thermal stat is bad, pressure valve and its seal are bad/clogged up. Water passage are also narrow. That's too long for a thermal stat to open. New impeller only helps getting the water up the tube. From there on is the job of the thermal stat, pressure valve, water passage to ensure the block is filled up with water. Your probably have a half block fill and the water dump back down to exhaust. Do not take any outboard on that water if you can't put on hand on the block for a count of 5-6 after having it run for 5-6 minutes.
    Your motor's head gaskets, water jacket gaskets and exhaust port gaskets many need to be replaced as well.
    The questioning device is the control valve assembly. And is the pressure valve I am talking about above.
    Good luck

  3. #3

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Hi thanks heaps for your answer im not trying to be rude but i cant quite understand what you mean.Do you mean the thermostats them self are bad?(i put em in hot water and they opened)

    Pressure valve is that what im pointing to in the photo?
    i had the thermo housings off and there was very minimal crud in there none at all really i blew through all the hoses and they were all clear as anything.do you mean u think the water isnt actually getting to the thermos?
    Sorry im not trying to be rude in any way i knew it was getting to hot.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Central West Florida
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    The warning horn should beep momentarily when you turn the key to the ON position. Does it?

    Check the overheat circuit by (engine not running) having the key in the ON position, then ground out the TAN wire (heat sensor) you see leading out of each cylinder head. Port head has two wires, one TAN and the other I believe is white/black. THe Starboard head just has the TAN wire. Okay, with the key in the ON position, ground the TAN wire which should make the warning horn sound off. If it does not, find out why as this is the only warning you'll have should the engine overheat, suffer a fuel restriction, run low on oil (if using the VRO), or encounter a VRO failure.

    NOTE: If the warning horn is functioning as it should (above test), and if the engine should overheat, the warning horn would sound off long before the engine is hot enough to do any damage, hence the status.... warning!

    The large black plastic thing is the VRO fuel/oil pump. The small electronic item at the top portion of the VRO is a vacuum switch which would trigger a fuel restriction warning. The valve you asked about is a water flow switch which allows more water to flow thru the engine at the higher rpms.

    Notice the holes/slots just above and to the rear of the cavitation plate. THose are the water outlet holes for the thermostats. On a flushette, water would flow out of those holes when the thermostats open and not before.

    (Testing Warning Horn)
    (J. Reeves)
    On VRO equipped engines where the VRO automatic fuel/oil setup is still being used, make sure that all components are connected as required. This would include the VRO pump wiring harness itself, the oil tank wiring, the overheat sensor(s), and if so equipped.... the vacuum switch that is standard to many V6 & V8 engines.
    If the VRO automatic setup has been eliminated and has been disconnected properly, and the fuel and oil is being premixed, make sure that the overheat sensors are still connected, and the vacuum switch if the engine is so equipped.
    On engines prior to 1984 which have no VRO setup, ignore the instructions pertaining to the VRO components, etc above.
    Turn the key to the ON position (Engine Not Running). Find the TAN wire at the cylinder head(s), then ground out the portion of that wire that is part of the engine wiring harness. If that Tan wire connector has the knife type connector where as it is exposed simply by sliding the rubber insulator back, it does not need to be disconnected.
    Grounding that TAN wire should cause the horn to sound. If it does not, find out why as that's the only warning you'll receive should the engine overheat or have some portion of the VRO system fail, or have the engine encounter a fuel restriction if it is equipped with a vacuum switch.


    (VRO Horn Warnings)
    (J. Reeves)
    NOTE: I retired around 1991/92. Possibly some of the later V4 engines and others may also incorporate a fuel vacuum switch that would enable a fuel restriction warning to sound as mentioned below, an unknown factor to myself.
    1 - A steady constant beep = Overheating - The V/6 engines, possibly some others, have a fuel restriction warning which is also a steady constant beep.
    2 - A beep every 20 or 40 seconds = oil level has dropped to 1/4 tank. (Late model engine = Every 40 seconds)
    3 - A beep every other second = VRO failure, air leak in oil line, oil restriction, (anything that would result in a lack of oil being supplied to the engine).
    NOTE - If the warning horn is the black plastic (overpriced) three wire type horn, the warning horn should beep once when the ignition key is turned to the ON position. If it does not, it is either faulty or someone has disconnected it (a stupid move!). At any rate, if it does not beep which indicates that the horn is non functional, find out why and do not run the engine until the problem is corrected.
    Our questions require answers. If you refuse to answer our questions, how can we answer yours?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    If wanting to test temp and cooling, run the engine in a barrel where the water pump itself does the pumping and not on muffs. Don't have a big enough barrel?
    Take a garden 'basket' and tape some garbage bags inside to keep the water. Get the water level about 2" above the split between the leg and gearcase.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    81

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Is the green wire attached to the brown coming from your temp guage ? the brass temp sender on the left side looks like it is for a guage. Check it out ? it looks like it was added. and the brown wire temp sender only activates the horn by resistance.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    81

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Man you also need to get a infared thermometer to start the process of ilimination like at harbor freight. They are the best

  8. #8

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Thanks fellas the vro has been disconected by previous owner.I also am using all my electrics/controls guges etc from my old engine as they were all in the boat it all plugged straight up(old motor was an 83 200hp crossflow)Now its a 89 225 looper.As stated above it will sound an intermittent horn if i dont plug my temp wire in and if i have my temp wire plugged in itll run for a couple of mins than the temp needle will jump right up to the top of the guage instantly and horn will sound (the video shows exactly what its doing)seems like a short or something but when i actually felt the barrels/head they seemed extremely hot for that amount of run time.And yeh was just wondering why they would have those two sensors(brass ones)as well thats what was on my old engine.So how long should it take for the thermos to open i thought would have to be longer than that??jus seems its gettin hot before it can even have a chance to warm up if that makes sense?sorry for all the confusion.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Yeh i think ill have to get one of those temp guns and test it.but after about 2 mins of running should deffinately be able to hold hand on heads/block for more than a second right?
    Yes the green wire i have plugged into the brown wire comes from my temp guage in the boat on my old motor that wire used to go straight to the brass sensors in the head but this has me confused cause the manual says the brown wire is the temp wire so i thought it would plug straight into that old wire to my guage??this is why i think its alarming cause there is a short or something can somebody please watch till the end of that short vid and watch what the needle does.
    Last edited by lewis tornado; 12-25-2011 at 12:13 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    , Langkawi, Malaysia
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    1: Get yourself an ORIGINAL workshop manual, no Clymer or Seloc.
    2: Get the engine in a barrel!!
    3: Check waterflow/pressure to the hoses going into the thermostat covers as well as pressure in the pee-hose.(thin hose going into the ejector stb side in lower cover ref pic).
    4: Disconnect all engine instruments except for rev counter, you have no temp senders on that engine, only alarm switches for horn and SLOW.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,594

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    There is a temperature sender shown in the first picture , but no wire hooked up to it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mindenmines, MO.
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    5

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    I have a1988 200 looper and was having the same problem. I posted here and was told the muff`s may be the problem by letting air accumulate in the head or something. I didn`t understand what exactly the gentleman was talking about but took him at his word. Dont own a barrel so took it to a small lake nearby and tried it. He was right. No warning signal, no overheating. Boat runs better than ever.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Thanks very much to every one that is repling.so these engines dont run a temp guauge??yeh i knew it had sensors on the head (the brass ones)but wasnt sure what the other ones were ( with the wires)so they just hook up to the alarm? I will do what you guys have reccomended and get a original workshop manual.but i will also try the barrel cause now i think of it,when i went to look at the engine to buy it old mate had it in a barrel and i sttarted it to let it warm up so i could run the compression test on it after i let it run for about 5 mins i touched the block and it wasnt anywhere near how hot its gettin at moment so im sure u guys are right.also the muffs im using are off a small engine( dads fishing tinny) the do cover the inlet but i was suss on them. Once again thanks everyone for your help looks like im workin on boats today haha oh and merry christmas.

  14. #14
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    Sep 2010
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    ontario
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Of course they can run a temperature gauge , but you have to hook up wires to the sending unit in picture # 1

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Lewis -- the following is a description of the Control Valve Assembly action:
    The water control valve (a 3-way valve) is attached to the throttle linkage. From idle to about 2,000 RPM or a little above, water pressure is directed by the 3-way valve to the thermostat diaphragms and holds the thermostats on their seat. The t-stats operate as usual during this phase. As you open the throttle, at about 2,000 RPM, the linkage operates the 3-way control valve and it closes the water supply to the valve -- and dumps the water pressure from the thermostat diaphragms (This dump goes out the "tell-tell" line with other water). The t-stats then completely move off their seats and allows maximum water flow for the "power boost cooling" -- which is a good thing at high speed. When the t-stats move off their seats (that gives you less back pressure), you will see a few pounds drop in water pressure. But note, this is the description for my 1990 200 HP XP. I am not sure the cooling system is the same for you 1989 model.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Thanks for the info on that valve mate.Im going to get a barrel for it today and hook my wire from temp guage up to the brass sensor.If the engine has two sensors (which it does)is that for two guages to run for each cylinder bank or is there a way to kinda wire them both in and average the temps or something.
    So if im taking this the right way the brown wire hooks up to the warning horn correct?? and has nothing to do with actually sending the resistance for the actual temp guage reading?
    I will be going to get a proper manual i downloaded one but its just so hard to find what i need on it as its got everyother model engine and is about a million pages long and i can never find the correct info.

  17. #17
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    Sep 2010
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    ontario
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    The brass senser that is threaded into the cylinder head is for the gauge!-------The other sensor is for a warning horn and sets it off at a predetermined temperature.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Well today i went and got a barrel tobe able to run the engine in.Worked great for the temp issue didnt get hot at all i think it must ofbeen the muffs i was using thanks fellas.
    Now for the next problem the engine is smoking heavily and wont rev.It has fresh fuel mixed at 50:1,Not sure what that is in your imperial system(im from Australia)but its exactly what ive allways ran and is manufactures recommendation.There is no vro bottle connected so deffinately cant be gettin more oil this way.only thing i can think of is choke is sticking on or something or would this slow mode cause this??(does my engine have slow mode??)also its still getting the buzzer go off in 1 to 2 second beeps?
    Im very sorry to be annoying with this thing its summer and all i wanna do is take it out skiing.Ive tried ringing around about 4 outboard mechanics and none of them want to know about it i think most new mechanics now are mostly just new stuff service people around here its killin me.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    If the VRO pump is still there and oil hose disconnected BUT the electrical plug/harness between pump and engine harness still connected, you will get the NO OIL alarm.This will even limit your rpm's due to the SLOW function. Disconnect the plug from VRO. As for the heavy smoking , check for flooding carbs and/or leaking primer solenoid.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Ok thanks mate,Will check tommorow when i get a chance to work on her again.Apoligies also to joereeves i actually reread your post and you answered most of my questions in your post.

  21. #21
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    Feb 2001
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Damn, you would have to go ahead and apologize. I was just about to type out one of my favorite givemhell replies.
    Our questions require answers. If you refuse to answer our questions, how can we answer yours?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Well i took it out for the first test yesterday.Ready for the problems haha first is still that bloody alarm i cant find anything wiring etc out of the vro to try and dissconnect.Going off preivious post's its deffinately the low oil alarm i think previous owner hasnt dissconected something.I tried dissconecting the fuel vaccum switch wires just to eliminate that(which i know would be giving a constant beep)But just tried it any way.
    I think it might be in slow mode as well as it doesnt seem to wanna rev.Deffinately not getting hot anymore at all.
    Now for the second problem i was idling out just about to take it for its run and went to trim the engine down and the trim will not work,but if i turn the engine off the trim works perfect???Any suggestions on that? Im going to wire the original control box into the engine tommorrow and see if that fixes it.

    My real main concern is really just that alarm i wanna get that sorted its really frustrating me alot lol.
    The trim will be just something silly i hope.
    Also what would be the correct charge voltage this paticular engine would normally put out?My old 200hp used to sit just above 12 volts when running maybe creep higher when at WOT.This engine when idling is up around 15 volts do you think this is normal?Just alittle worried when i WOT it will charge way to high.Maybe this could have something to do with the trim acting up?? Geeezzzz i dunno im over all these toys we have to have in life lol.Thanks fellas.
    Last edited by lewis tornado; 01-01-2012 at 03:25 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    You say "first is still that bloody alarm i cant find anything wiring etc out of the vro to try and dissconnect.Going off preivious post's its deffinately the low oil alarm."

    If so, that would be an alarm making a single beep every 20 seconds. If this is the case, look at the oil tank and notice the lamp cord wires leading from it.... now look at the same lamp cord wires leading into the engine along with all the other wiring. Follow those wires in and disconnect both of them... that eliminates any warning that might be coming from the oil tank.

    Now, if you don't have a oil tank connected to that engine, you're not explaining yourself properly and if so... rethink exactly what warning signal are you receiving.
    Our questions require answers. If you refuse to answer our questions, how can we answer yours?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Well sorry for not explaining my self correctly.Im only human right?
    The only reason i am thinkin of an oil problem is from your post on warning alarms, number 3 says: vro failure,leak in oil line,oil restriction.The alarm i am getting is a beep every second or to.This is what i ment not LOW OIL.No im not running an oil bottle.So my question is what else could it be??i cant rethink the alarm as anything else because i dont know what other alarms there are hence me posting on a forum for answers if its to much to ask i wont post anything anymore thanks for your help.
    Last edited by lewis tornado; 01-01-2012 at 04:37 PM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Problems 225hp johnson 1989 model (pics and vid)

    Now, There'ya go! That every other second beep could only come from the VRO circuitry. Look closely at the VRO and you will see that there are wires leading from the smaller end of it. These wires lead to a rubber plug connection which you need to disconnect.... simply pull the plug apart.

    Now, whether you're human or not.... NASA is checking on that as we type .
    Our questions require answers. If you refuse to answer our questions, how can we answer yours?

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