Off Topic: Some soft spots...repair leaving the top gelcoat intact?

I had the 5 year survey done on the 1991 Tiara and we found some readings wet around the outriggers and that area of the gunnel. I want to re-seat the outriggers. It was also suggested that I have backing plates. Al mentioned a cool idea in another thread, so I wanted to pull it into an off topic post here (is there another place that has excellent contributors?). I was told from the surveyor that a lot of guys take an alan key and put it in a drill to clean up the moisture in the drilled holes. Then fill and re-seat. The Tiara has a lot of custom diamond non-skid. also having trouble getting a perfect color match on the gel-coat from the Tiara supplier due to some 20 year fade. I want to replace any areas from below but gravity is a challenge. Ideas welcome please. I am starting to assess the areas this weekend and if I have to open up more the a large drill hole I can get it from underneath. Again, has anyone ever tried to repair leaving the top gelcoat intact?

knuckle47 said:

Gee Scott,

I became quite proficient at those spots... One thing I did do you might consider ...Since the usual culprit is an owner drilling and not sealing screw holes, I made up hockey pucks from 1 qt wonton soup containers. Filled them chopped fiberglass mat and epoxy and embedded them into the new replaced balsa zone. Now when I replaced the pieces mounted there, the screws went into solid materials...Has held up nicely so far (6 years). If you want any pictures of the repairs, I can email them to you...AL

Click to expand...

FYI, after going through all the prep and finishing, Use stainless self tapping machine screws. When using these screws there is no reason to drill over sized holes. The machine screw will cut it's own thread and not chip the gel coat.

I fixed my old pacemaker that way. I cut out the bottom layer of glass then removed all the wet and decayed balsa wood filler until I hit solid core then took out another inch or so. I then made up pucks, similar to what AL was talking about and epoxied them in, once they set I filled in the surrounding area and only had to deal with the surface screw holes before re-attaching everything. Al really had a good idea, a different old timer told me how to do it when we found the problem and he saved me a ton of work. That didn't come out right, I didn't mean you were old ,AL ! I guess you could use the stainless screws but I prefer the thru bolting and backer plate system, I feel a lot safer that way....Lee

I use 3M color restorer after compounding to get the color back, then two coats of a good paste wax. The process worked well, next time I will use a compound with more grit to expose a better gel coat. The compound I used was too light. I think it was 3M that made the color restorer, still have the bottle if you are interested.

I had some cracks in the glass in the forward bilge and I used Gluvit to fill the cracks, off color as it is a tan but very solid. I also used it to fill some screw holes in the engine hatch, the stuff runs like water so I did not get the results I wanted. Next time I will use the West epoxy system with the filler.

It is important to use backing plates. The non-use of backing plates is due to the dealers not doing a good install. My outriggers did not have any backing plates when I got the boat. I cut a hole and installed access ports so I could add backing plates. I did not want to use metal so I encapsulated marine grade plywood to use as backing plates. Now there is little flex in a side when pounding through the waves.

Al's puck concept is worthy of consideration. As far as defying gravity, most 'epoxy systems' offer several filling compounds that will minimize the gravity factor. Also worth thinking about is vacuum bagging & its a good idea when working from above as well.

2X on the backing plates and thru bolting. Use of a premium grade bedding compound will miminize any recurrence. Sorry Chris - gotta disagree with you on using plain self tapping SS screws - they will weep water without the bedding compound. May not be an issue with a solid laminate underneath but its not a good habit to get into.

Hey Scott,

I am understanding that you wish to replicate the anti-skid pattern in your repair? Is that correct? As for backing plates, Mine had them when I took the decking apart and I did replace them when re-assembled, I can't see 18' of pole bouncing along without them. Additionally, those hockey pucks are holding up very well and maybe the single greatest long term repair we have done. of course, having engines that return us to the dock is a pretty good feat too. Your gravity thoughts re-kindle some horrible memories but I took our foredeck and cut surface panels out . Some about the size of a big hatch but no closer to each other than about 12". the goo that was balsa and water was removed, cleaned out and had new balsa epoxied in and then the cut-outs returned to their respective openings and epoxy was set over the balsa to seal it and epoxied in place, the seams or the kerf from the blade spaces were cloth taped, epoxied and faired as per West Systems specs.

A 2-part urethane has covered the decking and frankly, looks better than the original anti-skid from 25+ years ago. I used a weird type of roller to put on the final coat so it looks random and slightly rough. MAKES A GREAT ANTI-SKID SURFACE The issue I have is when it gets a seasons worth of rain, the rain water is SO DIRTY, there is a black dust that settles into the nooks and crannies of the "anti-skid", the deck looks like no-one ever maintains the boat. The company I got the urethane from asked for permission to use the photos I sent them in their advertising. It came out that good.

Al,
I want to keep the gel coat and the custom pattern they use. They sent me a "how to" guide for making a mold from the boat. Its do-able for me but I dont want to try it this year if I can avoid it. I'm a stickler at keeping the Tiara S2 design teams decisions unless its a mechanical upgrade.

I think I can open up the area from under side of the wide gunnels I have.

This stuff looks like the answer to working above head, but very costly. Anyone have used this stuff yet? I have cut a few 1" hole from under and it seems not as bad as I thought. Trouble is injecting resins from underneath. I may just open the underneath skin of the whole area needing repair. That way I can use balsa or such and know that the area is dry. working thru 1" holes by injection/vacuum doesnt seem like a realistic good long term solution. I want to make sure I dont leave any wet areas.

PS Al where can I see your sudo anti-skid pictures?

Here is a possible better and cheaper solution:

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html

I am looking ofr an article I just read on one the the many forums I read each day, now I am trying to find it.

This procedure is from the trawler forum that is emailed to me each day, I copy the good tips into notepad and file them, this may help:

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Here are my thoughts. I've found that no matter whether I use a roller or a brush, getting the gel coat to a smooth shiny finish requires sanding, repeated applications and more sanding, until, after sequentially reducing the grit, you've gotten to the point where rubbing compound is used and then wax.

That is if you want a perfectly smooth, mirror finish... a worthy goal, but one that then requires constant attention to not using the boat in a manner that may ding it. For us, that's not a very reasonable goal, so we don't even try.

For all glass work that I do, I brush it on- resin or gel coat. The bigger the job, the bigger the brush. (I just have found that rollers aren't as effective and they are a constant source of hassle, more expensive too.) However, there are two qualities of disposable brushes available- cheap brushes that shed bristles like a shaggy dog sheds hair, and less cheap brushes that shed less. If you use the less cheap brushes and you'll find yourself picking out bristles less often.

After the gel coat is applied or maybe, if I haven't put in wax (sanding aid), two coats, then I'll give it a sanding, fill in any imperfections with more gel coat (or thickened gel coat) and re-sand. Keep doing this until it is as good as you want. Each coat is sanded until the substrate is reached, in other words, I'm using the gel-coat to fill and level, that way the gel-coat doesn't get thick except in the low areas. This can be done with resin, but gel-coat sands easier, though is more expensive.

I keep this up until I get the feeling that the next coat of gel coat can be the final coat. Then I sand carefully enough to not sand through, sequentially reducing grit until I get to the level of (im)perfection that I'm looking for.

If I do sand through in a spot, I just re-coat it and re sand, being more careful to not sand through and to feather the edges. If you are kinda new at this, don't get frustrated, just keep re-coating the spot and re-sanding, you'll get the hang of it within a couple of re-coats. On the other hand, if you keep sanding through in spite of being careful, that spot is probably too high anyways, so sand it down, then re-coat with gel coat.

For the jobs that I do for other folks, they get a mirror finish, but then they are paying for that level. For our use, I just get rid of the tree leafs and as much of the brush marks as I feel like and put on a coat or two of wax (most of the time). It's the wax that keeps the gel coat from chalking, not its thickness.

Much of the repeated gel-coating, sanding and re-gel coating can be minimized by filling as many of the imperfections as possible with resin, even thickened resin if need be, but there will probably always remain pin holes that will need to be filled, which can be filled with gel coat (If I need to I use cab-o-sil/silica to thicken white gel coat because it blends in.).

The objective of your design was to make a boat that is as light as possible, so as soon as you switched to fiberglass, that objective is no longer a consideration. In my view, now switching to low maintenance and having a finish that will hold up under heavy use is a more reasonable goal. Trying to keep the weight down by making everything, such as the thickness of the gel coat, as thin as possible maybe, once you switched to fiberglass, a poor placement of effort. Don't want to over do it, but don't want to try for the lightest fiberglass boat that is possible, but finding yourself constantly fixing cracks because it was on layer of glass to little.

However, your concern over the gel-coat being too thick and cracking is a valid concern, but unless you make it excessively thick, or if your design is too flexible, I doubt that you'll get a thickness that will crack... once ready for the final gel coat, one or two brushed on layers should be adequate but, at the same time, they will probably not too thick.

One thing to keep in mind, and to my way of thinking it is a good thing, is that no matter how badly you screw it up or how badly the gel-coat gets scratched or cracked, all you need to do to fix it is to sand, apply more gel-coat and sand it down to blend it in... that is if the underlying lay-ups are adequate. So make sure the boat is glassed well enough (thick enough) to not flex and your finish should be okay. If not, and you want to fix it, whether you do it now or years from now, sand it, apply another layer of glass and gel-coat it.

Just keep one thing in mind, it's only a boat. If it keeps the water out and you in, it's a successful boat. Now, the fact that you're constantly itching... as the saying goes- "been there, done that and better you than me". (grin)

Just one thing to add before you complete the repair, I use siliflex on all fasteners when working with fiberglass, and on any hardware which might allow water to migrate in or under.