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Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Gig Harbor, WA
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    139

    Default Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Scraped off the barnacles, loosened the lines, removed the upper and lower nuts from the rods. Removed the pump/motor. Hit the rods with a 16oz hammer, can't get them to budge. Should I try a small sledge? Any suggestions on how to remove the rods ? Heat? I have applied penetrating oil.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
    Posts
    1,769

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    It's gonna take a LOT of patience and some heat.A small propane torch won't do anything!!!!
    I have a regular oxy/acetylene tank and torch.
    I used PB Blaster and heat.
    Heat and a 2-3# hammer.
    Be carefully as you can melt the aluminum.
    Heat and tap.PB and tap and more heat and tap and PB and heat and again.
    IT will take a bit to get it apart but it will come.
    The best thing is find one from fresh water.They come apart a lot easier.
    The stainless and aluminum actually weld themselves together.
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
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    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Aluminum and stainless welding together.......

    What does that mean for the 2 bolts that snapped off from the pump/motor? And the 2 that snapped from the removal of the leg housing? Am I going to be able to get them out, or is it a lost cause?? I was going to try vise grips on the remnants of the bolts, and drill and tap the 2 in the housing that broke flush. Will that work?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Sebastian ,Fl
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    1,769

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    The one stud remaing on the pump will be enough to hold it in place.
    Not sure what the others are?Pics??
    Welded together:the aluminum and stauinless have a reaction when touching they just seem to melt into each other and become permanent.(espically at the tilt pin)J
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
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    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Good to know, thanks, I will probably just leave them then. The other 2 help attach the leg housing cover, no biggie.

    On the tilt cylinder, there is an "adapter" that the line screws into. It broke when I undid the line. Is that normal? Easily replaced?

    Going to try to hit the rods out again tomorrow. It seems that I am going to damage the heck out of the end of the rods as I hammer them. I can see the threads beginning to get damaged already. Any suggestions on how to NOT damage them through this process?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Sebastian ,Fl
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    1,769

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Yea don't hit the bolts hit the bracket.If you can find the fine thread nuts put them on,the original are brass and break real fast.That's probably not gonna happen.So get ready to find a replacement.They aren't available anymore(new) so make your own.Or find a good machine shop.
    The fitting on the tilt is called a banjo fitting.They usually break if you even think about touching them.
    They are available about$40.If you find them cheaper let me know.
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Hit the bracket? I was referring to the tilt/trim upper and lower rods being damaged while trying to pound them out with a drift punch. Is that what you were meaning?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    112

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    put it back together and learn to live with it until you are ready to saw it off with a sawzall. Before you saw it off, buy a complete replacement from Michigan or some other place so far away from the ocean that nobody would ever even consider towing their boat for vacation. Some recylcers will take your old system as aluminum. Otherwise check your local trash codes to see if you need to drain out the oil before throwing away.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    LOL! That's exactly what I decided to do!
    I'm going to order a new adapter (broke in 2) for the tilt cylinder and put it back together. I noticed a leak there before, maybe it was cracked and that's what was causing the slow "drop" when the motor was raised. We will see.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    112

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    the slow drop is caused by the valve body.
    Take two upper lines loose from rams and two lower lines loose from pump. Remove pump and motor as a whole assembly. There is a lot less risk of stripping hydraulic ports when done this way.

    The leak at band collar will cause drift-up in reverse. It has nothing to do with drift down.

    You can buy a cheap chinese vavle body for under $150 but don't expect it to last very long on a 125HP. Maybe a couple years? If you aren't using your boat for winter then you can get your original rebuilt without losing any boat time. It will be a better machine with longer lifespan for less money.

    if merc puts you on backorder for the band collar then go to hardware store and buy a 1" x 12" strip of thin stainless. Use the ram body to bend it around. drill some holes and use aluminum pop rivets. take a 1x1x1/4" chunk of aluminum and tap a 3/8"-24 hole in the middle. Tah dah!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    I found the collar locally, but it is the original aluminum type. Fine for now, as I don't want the "kit" right now which cost 3 times as much, but has newer brass collar.

    What is the valve body? I don't see that part name anywhere....

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Sebastian ,Fl
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    What kit? And what's included?What's the price on the local?
    I need to get a couple(I have twin 85's)
    The valve body is the pump itself.
    I believe RRitt rebuilds them. J
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    When I looked at the diagram for the collar online, it shows a kit that looked like a band of some sort that goes around the top of the tilt cylinder, a little square looking thing, and the BRASS collar itself that screws into the square thing. Anyway, it was like $46. I'm getting just the aluminum collar (boneyard piece) for $20. When I go pick it up from the guy I know I'll see if he has anymore.

    Can I rebuild the pump myself? I had the motor/pump off already. Removed the cap and magneto? Cleaned up the brushes and blew out the magneto. Wiped oil from the inside of the motor housing. Is it correct to assume that the oil is leaking from the pump/valve body? Can I rebuild the pump myself?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Rebuilding the pump?? I tried once and it was beyond me.
    I don't know enough about hydrolic pumps and where to get the parts so I get them re-done.
    Oil inside the motor housing,not sure but I think that if it's laid down long enough it leaks through.Maybe RRitt will answer that question.J
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  15. #15
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    Mar 2010
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    112

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Quote Originally Posted by jerold View Post
    When I looked at the diagram for the collar online, it shows a kit that looked like a band of some sort that goes around the top of the tilt cylinder, a little square looking thing, and the BRASS collar itself that screws into the square thing. Anyway, it was like $46. I'm getting just the aluminum collar (boneyard piece) for $20. When I go pick it up from the guy I know I'll see if he has anymore.

    Can I rebuild the pump myself? I had the motor/pump off already. Removed the cap and magneto? Cleaned up the brushes and blew out the magneto. Wiped oil from the inside of the motor housing. Is it correct to assume that the oil is leaking from the pump/valve body? Can I rebuild the pump myself?
    the "band collar" has always been aluminum. I don't think chrysler ever sold them without fitting. The fitting is a weatherhead 1441 (?) which you can buy from NAPA for a few dollars each. Galvanic corrision usually eats the threads out in aluminum band, That can be fixed by using a 1/4" to 3/16" inverted flare adapter and threading the hole with 7/16" for male side of fitting. Brass collar, if ever used, would have been way old stuff.

    you can try to rebuild the pump. Just don't lose any parts or damage any aluminum so that no matter whats happens it is still fixable later.

    oil in motor is from seal in top of reservoir. it is not good as it will eventually soften the brushes. in case of 3w motors it will eventually dissolve the tape and glues on field windings. on 2w motors, wash reservoir with mineral spirits then follow by swabbing the oil seal area with acetone and small brush to make it sprarkly clean. then very lightly scuff outer edge of seal and apply locktite before pressing back into place (spring loaded lip faces away from motor). On 3w motors replace the size 011 oring in top of reservoir. Use BN70, BN90, or Viton material.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    What part is guilty, when the tilt won't raise the motor, and the pump sounds like it is cavitating? It seems to work fine in "tilt down", but "tilt up" it's almost like there isn't enough muscle, or the pump is just rotating fluid around.

    If I lift the motor by hand to about 65% raised, then the pump will finish the job. Remember, it does drop slowly from the raised position all by itself....assuming that is a faulty pump....

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sebastian ,Fl
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    1,769

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Sounds like the pump.Is it full?
    Not absolutly sure ,maybe RRitt will help.J
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    The pump's sound changes after about 2 seconds when you try to raise the motor, like it is struggling. Yes, it is full and bled.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Sebastian ,Fl
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Probably needs to be rebuilt.J

    RRitt does them.
    boats . net worst place to buy parts.
    Get towing insurance.Great investment.
    88 Bayliner with twin 85's

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    sounds like valve body. lift it by hand and block into place. then use a plug from NAPA to plug up botton of tilt ram. remove blocks and see if it holds. If it does then pump bad. If it does not then ram is bad. Pump probably bad too but can't tell until after ram is fixed.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Well, I already removed and dismantled. So I can't do the test. Besides replacing the seals, what needs to be done to this to consider it rebuilt? Does it need some sort of machining or what? New parts? ???
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    the torx bolts are so that the one bolt-head won't bang into the spring tower. just throw away your bolts and use four new grade5 steel bolts. Leave off the one nearest tower. get a big super magnet and pull out the steel valve. get a set of nylon brushes and pipe cleaners. clean all passageways and scrub off that black gunk. inspect springs for rust and replace if they show any signs of rust or fatigue. Take care to put shims back in same quantities and places as factory. reassemble top side with new seals, ball bearings, bolt, washers, and springs/shims as needed. check ball bearing against steel seat. Make sure ball bearing forms airtight seal.

    After assembling top, remove retaining clips holding in check valve and run pump. check valves often pop out with great force and will break windshields or windows if you are not careful. do same as above with check valves and actuator.

  23. #23
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Hey rritt, you gonna be able to help me with this?

  24. #24
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    Mar 2010
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    112

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    i'd rather not. it's a black hole that sucks down a ton of time. just be meticulous and put everything back in exactly the same order as you take it apart. work over a surface with borders that prevent parts and springs from getting lost. make everything spotless and reassemble with thin coating of vaseline.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Do you see the small brass washers in the pic? They were all together, I did not see where they came from. Any idea which hole they came from?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    you should have 3-5 brass washers about 1/4" dia. they stack into the very top of the post and shim the spring to adjust pressure setting. Just replace exact same number as original. you should (but not always) have a small 5/32 brass washer that goes into small hole underneath small spring. it prevents spring from wearing into aluminum. tthe ball bearings are usally 5/32" precision steel like the ones in hardware store. not stainless or anything. if you change material type then use delrin plastic. make sure to get a soft brass fine bristle brush and clean that thing up before reassmbly. debris and grit is your enemy.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    Thanks rritt. After I get the "upper" part of the valve back together, how do I run it to pop out the check valve? Do I have to put the motor back on it and fill with oil? Can I use a drill to spin it? But it needs to be buried in oil to create the pressure to pop the valves, right? I'm assuming I have to attach the motor, fill it, and run it...correct? Sounds messy???

  28. #28
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Trim/Tilt removal Force 125

    yup. just take out both retaining clips and run the pump. it's not too messy though. I use a xlarge coffee tin so that it makes a "ping" noise when the valve pops out. Before the coffeee tin I used a heavy gauge 1gal freezer bag. once a plug pops out then you need a 1/4"x3" socket head bolt. It's not worth building a special tool over single repair. put socket headed end into channel. taking care not to score or mushroom anything gently tap the slider until it pushed out the other check valve. when you take check valves apart be paranoid and ultra cautious not to distort the aluminum or knick the inside of steel cap. Try to use viton seals on slider and check valve.

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