timing on a right (port)turning engine

I have a 1972 twin Uniflight 318 engines. The left engine times at 5 before tdc. On the right engine, I can't get it to time right. I tried to time to the #1 cyl on the left front of block like the book says,and the timing mark is straight up, so i tried to time from the fly wheel. when starting the motor bucks on two turns, then starts. i hear a noise it the front (metal tingling) i retard the timing the timing untill it is almost gone, then if i run for any lenght of time, then idle to say go into my slip, it stops and wont start! When I rotated the dist. cap to get it to run anyway near smoth the the dist. cap was turned so much that the #2(right side front of motor was where the thr rotor was pointing to #1 side. I talked to area mechanics and some said that some of the right turning engines might have #1 cyl on right side front. So I tried to time it that way. I found tdc for the #2 cyl and it matched up with the front timing plate on the right side of balancer. When I started it up the timing mark was about an inch after the timing mark, and still would turn(buck) twice befor start running. I had the owner of the marina come down and look at it. He said lets startfrom scratch and not look at the book, as this it the clockwise running engine. I started it and t engine seamed to be running smooth. he then pulled off one plug wire off of the dist at a time. It never wavered one bit as he cept pulling off all the wires but two!! the engine was still running smooth. He the started to put back the wires one at a time to where the motors idle went up. he did that to each plug until all wires were back on. I shut the motor off then started it up. Is ran like a new motor. I could't belive it. He the told me to contact you guys to find out what is the corect fireing order is. We traced out the wires (still using #2 for tdc) and came out with firing order as #1,3,5,7 cyl on right side of block, and #2,4,6,8 on left side. It came out to read 1 2 6 5 2 4 3 7.. Do I have to pull off the intake manifold to get the true firing order by watching the valves??? I am at a lost at what to do. any help would make my day, thanks, john.

I'm SORRY, I ment the STARBOARD side.

If looking as the book says, with #1 on left front cyl the rotation is 2 7 5 6 1 3 4 8... so how can i get the #1cyl back to the right start of the fireing order? Would I be off a tooth on the timing gear????

The suggestion of "Starting from Scratch" is a great suggestion.......... I'd do same!


#1 cylinder for the Chrysler 318/360 will be as shown here.




Your thread title suggests that the Port engine is REV Rotation. Is this an error?

Typically, a Port engine is Std LH Rotation, and a Stbd engine is typically a REV RH Rotation engine.
Is yours not the same????

Let's back up for just minute.
Here is a Standard LH rotation auto/marine engine as viewed from the flywheel end (of which is industry standard... exception being that of early Chris Craft).
This is typically seen being installed on the Port side!


Your Stbd side RH REV Rotation engine is as shown here...

.......... which generally means that the firing order is also the reverse of the LH rotation engine, beginning with #1 cylinder.

For most REV RH Rotation Marine Engines, #1 cylinder remains the first on the firing order, followed by the last cylinder used for a Std LH Rotation Engine (unless an alternate firing order REV RH Rotation camshaft is used on these).


I'd also be looking at the firing order as though including all cylinders..... not one bank individually!
Your Std LH Rotation engine firing order should be 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2 as shown here.



Your RH REV Rotation engine firing order should be the reverse of the Std LH engine firing order.... but again, unless an alternate firing order REV RH Rotation camshaft is used on these.
(this may be where my knowledge is limited on these, as I am not aware of an alternate firing order used for the 318/360)


Note that the cylinder numbering and distributor rotation remain the same for either....... only the firing order changes.




As for the distributor rotor orientation...... the direction that the rotor is aiming (for #1 tdc c/s), is only as good as the last guy in there who set it up.
Technically speaking...., the rotor position does not matter, as long as the indexing between #1 cylinder @ TDC C/S and the rotor are indexed as to deliver the spark at the precise timing per cylinder...... of which would include all successive cylinders in their correct firing order.
IOW, a rotor physically aiming towards #1 cylinder (tdc c/s) is ideal, but is not necessarily a deal breaker if it does not physically aim towards #1 during initial set up.
The engine won't know the difference as long as the indexing or phasing is correct.


I'll say this again...... the suggestion of starting from scratch is a great idea!
Good luck with this!


.

uniflight 72 said:

If looking as the book says, with #1 on left front cyl the rotation is 2 7 5 6 1 3 4 8... so how can i get the #1cyl back to the right start of the fireing order? Would I be off a tooth on the timing gear????

Click to expand...

Never say never, but I think that you'd have other issues.

If in doubt, this gets tricky, and would involve knowledge as to what the camshaft profile is.
You'd need to identify TDC and begin an idexing procedure.
With a degree wheel in place, and a dial indicator on the intake cam lobe for #1, you'd begin a profile check.
This can't be done unless the profile is known.
To top that off, you'd want to know if the profile is NET or at the cam lobe.

So you'd have some homework to do before this would work for you.

Start with your ignition timing.... inluding TA...., and see if it performs adequately.
All else being equal, if one tooth off, performance would be sacrificed, IMO.

.

Thanks. This is just what I needed to hear! I'll try it this weekend. I also ment the right (starboard) engine.My goof. This is a great forum to belong to. thanks to all, john.

"(this may be where my knowledge is limited on these, as I am not aware of an alternate firing order used for the 318/360)"

You first need to know which one is numbero 1!!!!

greasemonkey said:

You first need to know which one is numbero 1!!!!

Click to expand...

Greasemonkey, your input here is as welcome as the next guy's, and it is of no less or more value than the next guy's info.
However, we have an un-written and un-required obligation to not only provide accurate information (to the best of our knowledge), but to support our information when questioned.
So once again, I'll challenge you in that you back up your comments with real data, and perhaps include some images!
Otherwise, it's simply YOU attempting to defuse someone else's information, but without support.... and with perhaps a very Passive/Aggressive approach!
Fair nuff?

I'm open to learning that the 318/360 Marine Engine uses a different cylinder numbering than what has been previously shown here.

Oh oh

Walk out to your 318......show me number 1 wire going to #1 cylinder and then turn the key and lets hear it run............Do a video so we can see that your engine runs with it wired like that so we can put this dog to rest...

Thanks

G-monkey

G-Monkey, perhaps take a look at these.


From our own ME.com forum in 2007
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-fo...ysler-Distributor-amp-cylinder-identification

Here's one with an animated GIF file showing a 318 #1 and distributor rotation.
http://boxwrench.net/specs/schrys_A.htm

Go here, and scroll down to Chrysler firing order.
http://www.basicpower.com/firingorder.htm



See next post (for some reason I'm not able to post my entire posting)

This is directly from Chrysler Marine.
http://www.chrysler-marine.com/inboard/QMAR318-360.pdf
(it takes a short while to load)
Scroll down to PDF page #8 (document page #6) and you'll see the left/right bank cylinder numbering.

If you go down further to PDF page #16 (document page 12), there is a section describing #1 cylinder location!

Quote > "the number 1 cylinder is the Front Cylinder on the left side when viewed from the rear of the engine" < Unquote.
In a conventional installation, and when viewing from the flywheel end (rear of engine), left would mean Port side.
This would appear to be in step with the suggestions that I've been making here. Yes/No?

Now if you'll go to PDF page #40 (document page 36), it confirms the above verbiage!
(see fig. 35)
Note the "Left Bank-Right Bank" and "Front of Engine" notations!

To do otherwise, the harmonic balancer would need to be indexed or marked off differently from Chrysler's factory #1 TDC markings and as shown in their cylinder numbering images.
If this the case, then it would appear that Chrysler is the only one who deviates from their original cylinder numbering, for use in their Marine version.
However, none of the images and/or verbiage support this as far as I can see.

So yes, we should be able to put this dog to rest now... unless of course you are able to counter this!
As said earlier, I'm open to learning that the 318/360 Marine Engine uses a different cylinder numbering than what has been previously shown here. If you can show us this, please do so, but please post some real data and images to support it.
If I can be shown that I'm in error, I'd appreciate it, as I'd prefer to post good info, not misinformation.



Off topic somewhat, but here's thread regarding piston orientation for the RH REV Rotation Engines.
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?2563-Rotation-direction-of-Chrysler-Marine-LM318BW

"Scroll down to PDF page #8 (document page #6) and you'll see the left/right bank cylinder numbering.

If you go down further to PDF page #16 (document page 12), there is a section describing #1 cylinder location! "

In that same pdf, page 26, fig. 6, clearly identifies the cylinder locations by numbering the intake manifold runners. And yes, some manifolds are really numbered. Check it out folks!

Good catch, Dave!

Here we go again:rolleyes: ....opening can of worms

Twin 1985 Chrysler 318s in a Marinette 29.....

Is there anyway I could have B or RB 318 engines in a 1985 Marinette 29? Wondering if my rotor turns clockwise (A/LA engine) or counterclockwise (B/RB engine).

I assume I have A or LA engines since the distributors are at the rear of the engine as pictured in the diagram of the following manual.

On pg 29 of this Chrysler Marine manual http://www.chrysler-marine.com/inboard/startup-facts.pdf

The rotors on all small block Mopars (273 to 360) turn clockwise regardless of the crankshaft rotation (along with the oil pump). The firing order for reverse rotator motors is the same as the standard motors, but it's set up BACKWARDS on the cap.

Therefore, it's: 12756348 (instead of 18436572).

Jeff

PS: Not sure what the OLD 318s are like, but I suspect they are the same.

tundrarules said:

Here we go again:rolleyes: ....opening can of worms

Click to expand...

There will be no opening of a can of worms as long as well all understand the differences between a Standard LH Rotation Marine engine -vs- a Reverse RH Rotation Marine engine.

Jeff nails it!


If you want worms......go here!



.

Is there anyway I could have B or RB 318 engines in a 1985 Marinette 29? Wondering if my rotor turns clockwise (A/LA engine) or counterclockwise (B/RB engine).


Old style small blocks "A" engine, or "poly" had canted valve gear identifiable by the valve cover. They were bolted down with two bolts right through the top. Distributor on flywheel end. 277, 301, & 318 cubes.


LA engines have in line valve gear. Covers are bolted along the gasket rail. Distributor on flywheel end. 273, 318, 340, & 360 cubes.


B and RB (wedge) engines are big blocks. Distributors on timing cover end. B's 350, 361, 383, & 400 cubes RB's 413, 426, & 440 cubes.