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Broke yet another steering helmet, Argghhhh

1stboat

1stboat

Regular Contributor
This is the third time that I've snapped a steering helmet. WTF is going on here. I've looked on ebay for replacements and the two I've found don't look like the one I just snapped. To make it worse, I can't even read the part number on it. I'm hoping one of the senior members here can help me find a replacement. I have the one with the larger diameter shoulder screws. According to wellcraft, my drive is a DP-C1. The drive serial number is 3102147931. However, when I've taken it in to dealers they say it has been modified and its a 290. I've included some pics to see if you can help me find the right helmet.
 

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If I were desperate to get back on the water, I would be visiting a machine shop to get it repaired.

Good luck

Rob
 
I am desperate, 4th of July weekend is coming up. However, taking it to a machine shop will not be impossible because the missing piece is in the lake somewhere.
 
Volvo Penta's high grade aluminum components are typically TIG weld repairable, but not so when we see corrosion like what appears to be the case with this helmet.
It must be absolutely clean in order to TIG it.
With the presence of what looks like visible corrosion, this is a non-TIG weld repairable item.

This Helmet is also no longer available via Volvo Penta as a separate item! (must be purchased as an assembly $$$$$)
If you find a good used one that uses the large shoulder pins......., grab it!

As for the drive being a modified 290, this is where the boys are separated from the men, so to speak.
This drive is NOT a 290 if the #'s suggest 1994 5.7 GI-PMDA.
The lower may be a DP-C or DP-C1 etc.
(more on the 290 -vs- later drives if interested)

Now..... why is your helmet breaking?
Possible reason:

The 5.7 GI-PMDA shows P/S being used.
Power Steering and/or No Feed-Back steering and/or Hydraulic steering, but the drive may be abscent the torque fin/trim fin to counter the prop torque...... see trim fin below.
images


The factory thinks that with Power Steering, No Feed-Back steering or Hydraulic steering, these little trim fins are not necessary.
However, even though we do not feel the drive torque at the helm wheel, it is still there, and is constantly tugging away at all of the steering components. (perhaps they want to sell parts in the future) :mad:
The helmet may be the weakest link!

If your drive does not have a trim fin, you may want to consider installing one, and adjusting it accordingly.
(your OEM service manual will show you how to make an initial setting)


Merc does the same thing on the A drive w/ power steering.
The trim fin has been completely eliminated! :mad:
Now all of this torque accellerates steering component wear! Not good! :mad:

.
 
Docksidemarineservices said:
So, does your drive jump up out of the water when you put it in reverse smashing the steering helmet? If so, you are fixing the result and not the cause.
Click to expand...

It does not, at least from what I can tell.

This one happened to snap when I beached the boat. I heard the pop and knew it had to be the helmet. It was a bit windy and maybe I had the drive turned to the side more than I should have when it was beached and it may have put more pressure than the helmet could take.

I did search through my older posts (thanks marineengine.com) and found some corresponding part numbers to the steering helmet:

852864
854069
853402
814642
839593
 
RicardoMarine said:
As for the drive being a modified 290, this is where the boys are separated from the men, so to speak.
This drive is NOT a 290 if the #'s suggest 1994 5.7 GI-PMDA.
The lower may be a DP-C or DP-C1 etc.
(more on the 290 -vs- later drives if interested)

Now..... why is your helmet breaking?
Possible reason:

The 5.7 GI-PMDA shows P/S being used.
Power Steering and/or No Feed-Back steering and/or Hydraulic steering, but the drive may be abscent the torque fin/trim fin to counter the prop torque...... see trim fin below.
images


If your drive does not have a trim fin, you may want to consider installing one, and adjusting it accordingly.
(your OEM service manual will show you how to make an initial setting)
Click to expand...

I am interested in distinguishing the drive I have whether it's a 290, DP-C, or DP-C1. The boat is on the trailer and I can take pics of the drive and its connecting components quite easily, if needed.

It does have power steering and the trim fin is installed.
 
1stboat said:
  1. I am interested in distinguishing the drive I have whether it's a 290, DP-C, or DP-C1.
  2. The boat is on the trailer and I can take pics of the drive and its connecting components quite easily, if needed.
  3. It does have power steering and the trim fin is installed.
Click to expand...
  1. Unless someone has changed this entire drive out, there is little chance that your year boat would be fitted with a 290 drive. Again, please note that even the so called Volvo Penta mechanics, and/or parts counter people, become confused between the 290 and what some refer to as a "large pin" 290. There is no such animal! Once the hinge pin diameter increases, the REV latch is omitted, and the driven gear angular contact bearing retainer size increases, this is no longer a 290! Plain and simple! (the lower unit may be a 290 Duo Prop...... but not any other portion of the drive)
  2. That would be very helpful.
  3. Yes, but has anyone adjusted this?
 
RicardoMarine said:
Yes, but has anyone adjusted this?
Click to expand...


Just me.




If there is no 290, what do you think I have?

Here are some pics, let me know if you'd like me to take closer of farther pics of different components.
 

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1stboat said:
  1. Just me.
  2. If there is no 290, what do you think I have?
Click to expand...

  1. Are you adjusting this as per the OEM suggestion?
  2. Just to clarify, I did not say that there is no 290! There is indeed a 290/SP/DP drive that is within this model range. All of these use the: REV Latch, Anchorage Bracket, Small diameter hinge pins, mid-size angular contact bearings, etc.
However, once the REV Latch, Anchorage Bracket, Small diameter hinge pins, mid-size angular contact bearings have been eliminated, this is no longer a 290 style drive.


Note how your cylinders make a direct connection to the "main suspension" fork.
Note the diameter of the hinge pins.

attachment.php


This is the drive that some (in a misnomer fashion), refer to as a "Large Pin" 290...... this is what I said "is no such animal"!


Here is a 290 drive.... doesn't matter whether s/p or DP.
Note the SS Anchorage Bracket that the cylinders would attach to.
This bracket hinges from the suspension fork, and is locked to the suspension fork via a REV Latch unit.

images





At the top of your transmission will be a tag just AFT of the helmet pin.
See what the tag reads.
It may read DP-C or DP-C1 or _____!
It may also read SP-C or SP-C1 or ____, and may have then been converted to a Duo Prop.


Keep in mind that all lower units in this particular series can be made to interchange.
This is why I suggested that your actual lower unit may not be year correct for the rest of your drive.
In other words, your LOWER unit could be a 280 Duo Prop, a 290 DP, a DP-C or a DP-C1 lower.
Moot point, because of the interchangeability.... as long as the over-all gear ratio is correct.


Hope that helps! :)

.
 
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1stboat said:
I am desperate, 4th of July weekend is coming up. However, taking it to a machine shop will not be impossible because the missing piece is in the lake somewhere.
Click to expand...

Of course it can be fixed, and a good machine shop can. They would weld on a new piece and bore it out, possibly even make it stronger than the original.
 
RicardoMarine said:
  1. Are you adjusting this as per the OEM suggestion?
  2. Just to clarify, I did not say that there is no 290! There is indeed a 290/SP/DP drive that is within this model range. All of these use the: REV Latch, Anchorage Bracket, Small diameter hinge pins, mid-size angular contact bearings, etc.
However, once the REV Latch, Anchorage Bracket, Small diameter hinge pins, mid-size angular contact bearings have been eliminated, this is no longer a 290 style drive.


Note how your cylinders make a direct connection to the "main suspension" fork.
Note the diameter of the hinge pins.

attachment.php


This is the drive that some (in a misnomer fashion), refer to as a "Large Pin" 290...... this is what I said "is no such animal"!


Here is a 290 drive.... doesn't matter whether s/p or DP.
Note the SS Anchorage Bracket that the cylinders would attach to.
This bracket hinges from the suspension fork, and is locked to the suspension fork via a REV Latch unit.

images





At the top of your transmission will be a tag just AFT of the helmet pin.
See what the tag reads.
It may read DP-C or DP-C1 or _____!
It may also read SP-C or SP-C1 or ____, and may have then been converted to a Duo Prop.


Keep in mind that all lower units in this particular series can be made to interchange.
This is why I suggested that your actual lower unit may not be year correct for the rest of your drive.
In other words, your LOWER unit could be a 280 Duo Prop, a 290 DP, a DP-C or a DP-C1 lower.
Moot point, because of the interchangeability.... as long as the over-all gear ratio is correct.


Hope that helps! :)

.
Click to expand...

1. To be honest, I don't think it was. I had it tightened in the 12 o'clock position. It is now as close to the 5 degree the manual states.

I definitely don't have the latch that the drive you posted does.

I measured the diameter of the pins that go through the steering for that attach the hydraulic rods and they are about 1/2 in.

I took a pic of the top tag on the drive and there does not appear to be anything stamped on it.

I would just like to know what type of drive I have so I can search for the right helmet.
 
1stboat said:
1. To be honest, I don't think it was. I had it tightened in the 12 o'clock position. It is now as close to the 5 degree the manual states.
That may help..... it's tough to adjust when power steering "masks" the torque.

I definitely don't have the latch that the drive you posted does.
Yes, I'm not surprised!

I measured the diameter of the pins that go through the steering for that attach the hydraulic rods and they are about 1/2 in.
These would be the "Suspension Fork" hinge pins.
C or C1 transom shield and sus fork.jpg


I took a pic of the top tag on the drive and there does not appear to be anything stamped on it.
If it's not visible, then it has corroded away some.

I would just like to know what type of drive I have so I can search for the right helmet.
The MarinePartsEurope.com parts schematic for the 5.7GLPMDA, 5.7GIPMDA, 5.7GIPMDACE, 5.7GLIMDA, 5.7GIIMDA shows this engine being used in both I/B and I/O, and for the Gimbal system drive as well.
It's confusing at best, and it does not offer any out drive images or info.

The Volvo Penta Official Online Store is of no help either!
Click to expand...


Can you post a photo or a link to the auction for the helmet that you found?
I just looked at "completed listings" and did not see the correct helmet.
The correct helmet will use the larger threaded bores for the helmet shoulder-pins.
This helmet material is also a tad bit heavier/thicker.

.
 
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The part number of the helmet I bought is 852864. It has the smaller diameter should bolt screw holes. The last ones I bought did as well, what I do is bore them out and use a tap and die set to accept the larger diameter shoulder bolt screws that I do have. Only, once have I been able to find a helmet with the larger diameter shoulder bolt screws already in the helmet.
 
If you have a problem breaking helmets running a DP drive and power steering, double check your propellers!!!!!
Running mis-matched props or even damaged may cause steering forces that breaks the most.
If the balance in torque between the forward and rear props is not equal it will be a problem.
This gets most severe if it is the 'rear' prop taking most of the load.
 
haffiman37 said:
If you have a problem breaking helmets running a DP drive and power steering, double check your propellers!!!!!
Running mis-matched props or even damaged may cause steering forces that breaks the most.
If the balance in torque between the forward and rear props is not equal it will be a problem.
This gets most severe if it is the 'rear' prop taking most of the load.
Click to expand...


Props are matched and in good working order.

Now that I think of it they only break when something has been struck, the lake bottom usually. I don't recall any of them breaking while underway. I just thought they would be able to take a little bit of abuse, not intentional of course. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a 50 dollar part break than the steering fork or something more expensive.
 
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