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number one on chrysler marine 318

fastjeff said:
Of course, this could be a VEE drive installation. In that case, the front of the motor would be aft and....

JKeff
Click to expand...
BINGO!
And it's still remains the end of the engine where we'd find the circ pump, and I wouldn't be surprised if #1 cylinder was there also! :D

Now I just have to figure out what Port and Starboard means. :rolleyes:
 
OK, I just Google's this as per your suggestion!


Caption here reads:
Front view of the Beta 38 diesel engine
images



Caption here reads:
QUESTVortec‑FrontView.jpg

400 × 378 - 350 Inboard Fresh Water Cooled BARR Marine Engine by EDM
images


Caption for this automotive image reads:
2001 Ford Mustang Bullitt Front Engine View
images


Caption for this automotive image reads:
2005 BMW M5 – Engine – Front Angle
images


Caption for this SB Mopar reads:
Small Block Mopar Engine Front Engine View
images


Caption here reads:
Radiator and front of engine
images
 
Here is a rear view of a marine engine.

Caption reads:
QUESTVortec‑RearView.jpg
400 × 447 - 350 Inboard Fresh Water Cooled BARR Marine Engine


(Note the Flywheel Cover and the Borg Warner drive coupler attached to the flywheel)
images




Caption for this 5.8L Ford Marine reads:
Rear View

(Note the flywheel attached to the rear crankshaft flange)
images



Are you by chance thinking that this is a flywheel?
Caption reads;
Mopar Dodge Plymouth 318 Harmonic Balancer

images




Here is a flywheel that bolts to the rear crankshaft flange at the rear of the engine.


images
 
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Bcclew, did you get the answer you're looking for? If you are standing behind the engine and facing the flywheel, number one is the furthest cylinder on your left. Not advisable to say port side in case engine is spun around in a v-drive application. Clear as mud?!!
 
daves69 said:
Nothing strange there Rick, been working on mopars since the high school days. #1 has always been there for me, big and small block!
Click to expand...
Dave, I believe that you missed my point!
What I meant was....., your image displays #1 in the same location as do the images in my posts #6 and #21.
It was a little more sarcasm for greasemonkey, who is apparently still having difficultly with this!
Oh well! :D

.
 
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"Dave, I believe that you missed my point!"
Very sorry to give you the wrong impression Rick. Both of your posts with the pictures and diagrams are fact not fiction and dead on as any Mopar fanatic can see. I missed ending my previous post with a sarcastic looking smiley:rolleyes: or something to portray it. GM must be set on the thinking or pulling our chain and getting a chuckle. Looks like he does some nice work though!
 
Okay, I did little a reseach a per Ricks request and came up with this....................
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?383094-Chrysler-360-engine-specs-timing

In this thread you will see that .....................




























































Rick has never owned a chrysler nor does he have much knowledge on there ignition timing specs.........from what HE says

This is a classic TAT post by Ricky Ricardo in where he talks about mercruisers and stuff in the chrysler forum

Grease on the other hand has 2 318s in the boat and parts motor which is a 72 block(marine)

But no worries Rick Ill be asking you about a 3.0 181Cu in soon...........No compression on 1 and 2 ...........150 on 4 and 120 on 3...whatcha think??? Hole in the piston??
 
I sure hope so, Woodie! :D

greasemonkey, please refresh yourself as to the thread title....... "number one on chrysler marine 318" .
By post #5, Pete, Woodieman and myself had answered the OP's question.
There is further explanation in post #6, and agian later in the thread.
It would appear to me that the #1 cylinder identification has been addresses...... not once, but multiple times in this thread.

Post #4, you asked if we could get on the same page, as you apparently had a disagreement.
When we disagree, the person in disagreement usually provides information that supports the disagreement.
You have not done so.... at least not with sufficient images, etc!

greasemonkey said:
  1. Okay, I did little a reseach a per Ricks request and came up with this....................http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?383094-Chrysler-360-engine-specs-timing In this thread you will see that .....................
  2. Rick has never owned a chrysler nor does he have much knowledge on there ignition timing specs.........from what HE says
  3. This is a classic TAT post by Ricky Ricardo in where he talks about mercruisers and stuff in the chrysler forum
  4. Grease on the other hand has 2 318s in the boat and parts motor which is a 72 block(marine)
Click to expand...


1. May I assume that you are referring to post #7 in that thread? If so, this revealed nothing to do with the original topic of this thread (#1 cylinder location). Keep in mind that no specs were suggested by me in post #7, as I always suggest that the owner see his OEM specs as any of us should be doing, unless we know the precise engine build.



2. You are correct in that I have not owned a Chrysler powered boat. However, I do occasionally work on Chrysler powered boats! I have also owned the 318 and 360 over the years.... (five total I believe)....... not Marine, but auto.


3. Do you not agree that the Ford/Chevy/Chrysler Marine Engines all have similarities that may cross over? Not necessarily "specs", per se', but basics?
Do you not agree that TA or TAT is equally important for a Ford Marine as it would be for a Chrysler or Chevy?
And furthermore, how does any of this intrinsically disqualify me from the statement in post #7 re; Marine Ignition timing basics?
Perhaps you can explain this also!


4. Then please share your knowledge and source for locating #1 cylinder on a 318 Chrysler Marine Engine.... but do so with the aid of some good images, etc!




Sorry to hear about your "locked up 318"...., but as an owner of twin marine 318's, we should be well experienced with regard to certain aspects of this engine, and perhaps not take the advice from a non-mechanic type person.


All sarcasm aside, why don't you either provide sufficient data that shows that the above images are incorrect (re; #1 cylinder), or simply agree that they are correct?
You wanted to be on the "same page".... Yes/No?

.
 
Wow, I hope everyone is sufficienty confused now. I am going to have to re-examine how I have set up my firing orders and timing for all these years. Maybe I should be relocating my #1 cylinder to the back left, front right, rear right???? All I know is they run way too well using the furthest forward cylinder.
 
Who knows ............Woodie's and Pete's run good that way and mines wired opposite as theirs and run good also so I guess it doesnt matter just hook the plugs up she'll run, just like for the past 31 years......................carry on folks
 
chris_holt said:
Wow, I hope everyone is sufficienty confused now.
Click to expand...
Chris, I think that only one person here is confused.


Greasemonkey, what are the odds that this many sources are incorrect?
I am somewhat purplexed as to why you are not understanding all of this.

As said earlier, why don't you either provide sufficient data that shows that the above images (re; #1 cylinder) are all incorrect.......... or come to terms that they are correct?
You wanted to be on the "same page".... Yes/No?



Here is yet another image by Dave, just a few posts back.
attachment.php


If you are Hell Bent in believing that #7 is actually #1, then you'd best perform a PPS on #7 as a means of determining the #7 crankshaft angle @ TDC.
Then re-mark the harmonic balancer as to reflect this!

You can now make #7 your theoretical #1 for ignition timing purposes and build your firing order upon this.
Your firing order will now be 7 2 1 8 4 3 6 5 .... and you'll actually be strobing #7 when setting BASE or TA.
The Engine will not know the difference!

.
 
No question Rick, I think after I spend a sufficient amount of time trying to make my #7 my number #1, I may just take a break and start cutting four flat sides on the wheels of everything I own....Nothing like moving in a forward direction.
 
ok that was interesting the quarreling back and forth and all saying mostly the same thing half the time really i love it. but seriously now who can help me out this may sound wierd but here goes . twin 318 225s port side rotation standing in front of engine thats water pump side to avoid confusion this engine turns clockwise staroard engine from same view turns c clockwise both engines have 18436572 firing orders i would believe otherwise but the starboard rus perfectly. i just rebuilt the port engine timed it wired it and it run perfectly however i cheaped out the oil pump looked and worked good i didnt replace it. after install in boat fed water to it and it worked perfectly for about 3 hours then lost oil presure. ok that no big deal dropped pan stood on head and changed pump other circumstances caused no oil presure wound up taking intake off to check pump shaft yadayada all back together timed and wired exactly the same as before runs like **** no power and backfires horribly . this is about the 25 engine i have rebuilt please guys what the hell have i missed. ps, this boat soon in danger of sinking to the bottom
 
both engines have 18436572 firing orders ...............HMMM??
That rev. rot.the starboard should be 12756348

Did you mess with the dist. drive gear?
 
Fish........ you should actually start a new thread on this. But since we're here........................

fish1967 said:
twin 318 225s
First if I may.... and just an FYI before we get started......... Industry Standard dictates that we view the Rear of the engine when determining Rotation.


port side rotation standing in front of engine thats water pump side to avoid confusion this engine turns clockwise
IOW, CCW if viewed from the flywheel side................ Yes/no?
Whether this is a Port or Stbd side engine, this is your LH "Standard" Rotation Enigne.

staroard engine from same view turns c clockwise
IOW, CW if viewed from the flywheel side............ Yes/no?
Again, whether this is a Port or Stbd side engine, this is your RH "REV" Rotation Enigne.


both engines have 18436572 firing orders
Where are you reading this information?
Unless your "counter-rotating" engine had a custom machined crankshaft (and of course camshaft), this is not so.
Keep in mind..... we're swinging the same crankshaft, but in an opposite direction only.
We use #1 cylinder as a referrence point.
It only makes sense that #2 will now follow #1..... just read the standard F/O but in reverse direction.
Like Greasemonkey said, your RH REV Rotation engine Firing Order shoud be just opposite from 18436572, and should be 12756348.


Easy method for testing the REV Rotation engine camshaft:
Bring #1 TDC C/S.
Pull #2 spark plug.
Turn engine CCW 90* (viewed from front) and see if you feel compression in #2 while #2 is approaching TDC C/S.
Next would be #7 @ 180* from #1 TDC C/S.
If you get this on more than several successive cylinders, I think you will have answered your question.


i would believe otherwise but the starboard rus perfectly.
i just rebuilt the port engine timed it wired it and it run perfectly
Now you throw me for a loop!
You're saying that the REV Rotation engine runs perfectly... and while using "Standard" LH Rotation firing order????
Hmmmm, I'm either mixed up, and/or not following you... or you mean something other than that!
Perhaps explain that to us.


Question: Are you sure that these are counter rotators from one another?
IOW, is it possible that you have two LH engines and reversable transmissions?

however i cheaped out the oil pump looked and worked good i didnt replace it.
Oil pumps will go dang near forever! I'd not necessarily re-use one.... but if so, it should go and go.
Click to expand...
As for this back firing... not sure what to suggest, other than to use the tried and proven P of E.. process of elimination... one item at a time.
 
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ok ricardo marine yes you have all correct rotations and all that port side cw from front now keep in mind this is not my boat the firing orders are written on the edge of the hatch lip after digging deeper stbd side does have reverse firring order. sorry bout not doing a seperate post guys this is only the second time i have ever joined a chat about anything so we ca end it right away as i have found the problem. ok i took this engie apart just over a yr ago buddy couldnt afford to fix it at the time so there it sat till about a month ago i his shop i pieces. got everything we needed went to work ordered ew plugs from our local marine supply having been over a year since i took them out didnt notice the fact that they gave me short reach plugs (ngk br8hs) hey they work fine hidig up in that hole for about 3 hours then things start going sour. put proper br8es plugs in today and bingo night and day so thanks for all your thoughts sorry to confuse with the firing orders was just reading info left by someone and really had no reason to dispute.
 
Well good for you! Sounds like the problem has been resolved. :)


Next time, I suggest starting a new thread, and be sure to give it a "thread title" that describes the concern.

FYI and with a preface:
I don't know the Chryslers as I do the SBC....., but with the RH REV Rotation engines, several things (in addition to camshaft) may change;
  • Main and front crank seals are now different with regard to the wiping serrations just inside of the lip.
  • Piston orientation, regarding any wrist pin offset, may be different. For some engines these must be reversed. (check with the Chrysler boys on this one)
.
 
Rick and anyone else,

To the best of your mechanical knowledge ....please explain why BOTH Standard Rotation and Reverse Rotations have this factory timing mark on the opposite side of the aluminium chaincase cover's timinig marks??
 

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  • tug318 timing mark.jpg
    tug318 timing mark.jpg
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timing....excuse me

Rick ....I expect a 3 page report on my desk by Monday morning,Eastern Standard Time 0900 AM

If you could be so kind to go with a bigger font so I dont have to squint from 12inches away,maybe a little bold will help to:)
 
I'll do my best, and will shoot for Monday morning, Eastern Standard Time 0900.
Can't seem to get the large and bold font to work! Is this OK? :)
step1.gif
 
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