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Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northport , Fla,
    Posts
    273

    Default o2 sensor issue again

    okay need some imput once again,


    alarm going off at idle only intermittent... reset ket and goes away.... I don't have four tell tale lights only two they don't blink at all.
    I see both engines peeing correctly, I feel its the o2 sensor once again.... I have yet to do the service bullentin #56 on exhaust pipes that this winters project... I really don't want to pull it to shop to let them charge me to plug in to see which code only to tell me o2 sensor.


    here's where you'll come in I am thinking of pulling o2 sensor on problem starboard motor and switching it with port good o2 sensor ?
    I tryed looking back in archives to find symptons of bad o2's in past couldn't find them going by my memory I think this is culprit...
    it been a at least a couple of year that I had to replace o2 sensors .
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,109

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Even if you have the two light key-switch, you can still run the diagnostic. One of those lights should be the MIL (check engine) light. Use Service Check Connector (PN 070PZ-ZY30100) or a paper clip to short the lime green/white wire to the black wire on the red 4-prong sercice check plug. Turn on the key. The MIL lamp flashes the number oftimes associated with the diagnostic trouble code. A faulty HO2 sensor will blink once, about every three or four seconds. If the MIL comes on, but you get no blinks, then there are no codes.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  3. #3

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    There is a Honda recall on H2O sensor. When I received notice from Honda for my 225 last Oct. 2010 I called my dealer and they said if it is not beeping then forget about replacing it. My recall warranty expired in 6/2011. Two weeks later the alarm sounded and it was the H20 sensor. My Honda recall warranty expired by 3 weeks and Honda would not cover repair. Honda has a new style H20 sensor and when replaced the computer board also has to e replaced. It costs $1100 to do repair. My dealer had an old style H20 sensor and I had it replaced for $200 but the dealer said it probably would go bad again. My dealer contacted Honda Tech, the Honda Rep and I contacted the Honda Factory but they would not give me a break and cover the defective parts due to their error. This is my third Honda Outboard and but I will go with Yamaha next time due to my dissatisfaction with Honda lack of backing up parts they designed that were faulty.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northport , Fla,
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Quote Originally Posted by Topfish View Post
    There is a Honda recall on H2O sensor. When I received notice from Honda for my 225 last Oct. 2010 I called my dealer and they said if it is not beeping then forget about replacing it. My recall warranty expired in 6/2011. Two weeks later the alarm sounded and it was the H20 sensor. My Honda recall warranty expired by 3 weeks and Honda would not cover repair. Honda has a new style H20 sensor and when replaced the computer board also has to e replaced. It costs $1100 to do repair. My dealer had an old style H20 sensor and I had it replaced for $200 but the dealer said it probably would go bad again. My dealer contacted Honda Tech, the Honda Rep and I contacted the Honda Factory but they would not give me a break and cover the defective parts due to their error. This is my third Honda Outboard and but I will go with Yamaha next time due to my dissatisfaction with Honda lack of backing up parts they designed that were faulty.

    I feel your pain... I somewhat had same issue.. I ended up performing warranty bullentin #56 my self after replacing many 02 sensors... My local Honda mechanics said that it would require alot of labor and would be costly glad I did myself really wasn't as bad as they made it to be.. I am dissapointed in some of Honda response's with some of the issues that show up exactly the same on many Honda 225's. BUT My Honda have made 10yrs 1500 hrs and keeps on purring other then the re-occuring issue we all have had they are solid... The 250hp's are out now really would like to save for those BUT I am now leary about getting a new model and plan on waiting as long as I can to allow the bugs to be worked out like the 225 seem to be... I understand Honda is a big Corp. but when we all have same issue such as 02 issue it should be fixed no matter when warranty was up expecially if original owner.... Heck if it wasn't form this forum I am not sure I would of know that this was a Honda issue because I was never notified by Honda, I found issue on web then went to Local Honda rep by then warranty was way gone and I had replaced quite a few 02 sensors at 185.00 each x2 motors... TOPFISH just keep contributing to this forum and you will learn alot from people on here I have and am very grateful to many on here... I am sure everyone has a opinon about this but this is mine..... I also have replace middle cowling 3 times now for same issue(swelling leaving gapin between) and local honda said sorry try making a snap latch... Just one more issue that I hope they fix
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    2,109

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Maybe we should start a fault/Gripe list on the Honda 225, rank ordered by the severity, just to get it all in one place. I'll start here:
    Intermediate drive shaft bearing failure
    HO2 Sensor failure
    Must remove exhaust manifolds to check/replace internal anodes
    Fresh water flushing system inadequate
    No NMEA 2000 interface
    No gaugeable heat sensor
    No gaugeable water pressure sensor
    Upper cowling tends to warp and not fit together well

    Any others I should add?
    CHawk 25 DLX

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northport , Fla,
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    WOW ,
    I think that covers it, I will think some more but that seems like most of issues..... I really would like a better contact with Honda customer service when I called they refered me back to local dealer who then calls his rep and never seemed like my concerns were important . I realize some had great local contact but its not always like that so would be nice to be able to contact customer service without the old song and Dance ....




    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    Maybe we should start a fault/Gripe list on the Honda 225, rank ordered by the severity, just to get it all in one place. I'll start here:
    Intermediate drive shaft bearing failure
    HO2 Sensor failure
    Must remove exhaust manifolds to check/replace internal anodes
    Fresh water flushing system inadequate
    No NMEA 2000 interface
    No gaugeable heat sensor
    No gaugeable water pressure sensor
    Upper cowling tends to warp and not fit together well

    Any others I should add?
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tauranga New Zealand
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Bill
    you can add to your list the engine block corroding through externally, although they don't all suffer from this problem.
    From memory it results in a hole under the inlet manifold.
    Bob

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,109

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Bob - Got it. Will add to list. Can you give a bit more detail on the problem? I'm unfamiliar with that one.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tauranga New Zealand
    Posts
    52

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Bill
    There are several threads on here about it, but haven't the time to search at the moment. But basically the engine block corrodes from the water jacket through to the outside. Looking at the rear of motor it is in the centre of the "V" at either the top or the bottom(can't recall which).
    Bob

  10. #10

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Quote Originally Posted by bobmech View Post
    Bill
    There are several threads on here about it, but haven't the time to search at the moment. But basically the engine block corrodes from the water jacket through to the outside. Looking at the rear of motor it is in the centre of the "V" at either the top or the bottom(can't recall which).
    Bob
    Does anyone know the name of the contact and contact info from Honda Marine who is in charge for Honda Marine in the USA? Honda has offices in Atlanta and California. Thanks

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,109

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Don't have a name, but it's the Atlanta office where all the tech guys are located.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  12. #12

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    Don't have a name, but it's the Atlanta office where all the tech guys are located.
    Thanks Chawk_man, I have talked to the customer service guy in Atlanta. My dealer has talked to the Tech Dept. in Atlanta and the Honda area rep. The guy who fields cases from consumers in Atlanta was not helpful. I asked who was the person who is responsible (head guy) for Honda Marine Products and I was just given the same name as the guy I talked to in Atlanta customer service. Honda refused to give me the name of the person in charge, only the lower echelon customer service guy. I want to contact the Honda Marine Executive directly. I suppose I can find Honda's Annual Report somewhere and they should list Executives. It is lame when I directly ask Honda thee name of the Executive in charge of marine products and be given a run-around. I have owned 3 Honda outboards and figure I have invested in $50K to $60K of Honda Marine Products and the least Honda could do is give me the contact information I requested instead of being devious.

  13. #13

    Angry Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Hello all, My saga is on I-Boats, under "Sumrsalt". Honda did all they could to "not" answer anything for me. I gave up on my 2002 BF225 @ 147 hours, water ingestion via the exhaust. Honda did nothing for me at all..Lost all faith in "Honda" to the point of never ever purchasing another product from them "ever". My last contact in Atlanta was "Richard_Veronese@ahm.honda.com". That was late 2007, no contact since, but he was the regional service person. Sorry for all your losses, my blind faith in Honda cost me $15,000.00

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,109

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Not to offer excuses by any means, but Honda Marine's basic business model is to work only through dealers. Thus, if you can find a dealer that will be your advocate, you might get a better response.

    I've written extensively about the flaws in this type of business model, but Honda does not listen. It is the model they have used for years in autos and motorcycles, and they firmly believe that it is equally applicable to marine products.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH USA
    Posts
    2,831

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    I guess I have to respond also...short but sweet.

    Sorry things did not work out.

    All I can say without any disparagement (I did know Richard...he is now retired), the District Service Managers that I know that are in place are top notch and very professional. They will go out of their way to get the issues resolved.

    As CHawk said, Honda wants to keep the dealer as the point of contact with the customer as much as possible. Much of the response of "Honda" depends a lot on the credibility, experience and customer focus of the dealer...and we all know, dealers are just like us...there are "good ones" and there are "less than good ones".

    Mike

  16. #16

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    CHawk 25 DLX,
    As of the spring of 2008, I repowered with an Evinrude Etec 225 ho. My Grady-White now works very well. I have completely washed my hands of Honda, but I feel bad for those still stuck with their "design flaw". When I purchased in the summer of 2002, there were no guidelines for mounting the engine well above the waterline. Those guidelines came out in August of 2003, well after the problems were documented. It is a real shame this engine has been such a lemon, as it offered great power when it worked.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northport , Fla,
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Mike,
    I agree with your comments BUT as a consumer around here we don't have much of a presence of hona dealers... The original dealer where I bought engine and boat from has long gone..... I chose Honda's over yamaha's because I like look,sound,and in 2002 I didn't know much about engine difference other then other honda item seemed to run forever... NOW back to now, when I tryed to get help from honda on the all common issues over the years Honda hasn't been supportive by way of now responding back to phone and letters. Had a dealer contact them in past took over a month by the time he got back I ended up finding problem myself. I love my engines and feel I have them where I want them but the grief we all have had in the past I feel could be advoided had better communication be used via a little consideration when a customer calls them directly to Honda... Heck if it wasn't for this forum I still would be fighting service bulliten #56 all so called honda local dealers said way to much to do or wouldn't give me time of day.... The cusumer shouldn't be the one telling Honda how to run a bussiness model they should be listening to feedback and reacting to improve...




    Quote Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
    I guess I have to respond also...short but sweet.

    Sorry things did not work out.

    All I can say without any disparagement (I did know Richard...he is now retired), the District Service Managers that I know that are in place are top notch and very professional. They will go out of their way to get the issues resolved.

    As CHawk said, Honda wants to keep the dealer as the point of contact with the customer as much as possible. Much of the response of "Honda" depends a lot on the credibility, experience and customer focus of the dealer...and we all know, dealers are just like us...there are "good ones" and there are "less than good ones".

    Mike
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    I won't go into a lecture on the problems in a strictdealer-centric business model for consumer durables. Suffice it to say thatmost US manufacturers overcome the problem by establishing duel communications channelswith the consumer/purchaser – one through the dealer and the other one is adirect communications and support link. That allows the manufacturer to getdirect feedback from purchasers/users and more quickly identify productperformance problems. That system also allows the manufacturer to establish abetter, more durable relationship with the consumer, identify and address weakdealers, and provide a platform for additional promotions and sales. Thetradeoff is the cost of establishing and maintaining the direct communications channelverses the improvement in customer satisfaction and loyalty. In the long run,the direct communications channel improves brand value and brand equity. See “ValueCreation: The Power of Brand Equity.” http://www.newvaluecreation.com/Index_files/Page364.html
    Realistically, we’re not going to change Honda’s businessmodel any time soon, so we deal with it through forums like this one where weall benefit from real experts and real gentlemen) like Mike, Jimmy, Chris andothers. Thank you all.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  19. #19

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Thanks CHawk, Perhaps you should add the lousy paint job. My 225 paint started peeling a couple of years ago. I just bought a couple of Honda spray paint cans again at $23. ea for Oyster and clear coat and repainted again. Looks like I am going to have a cover on the engine as much as possible. The paint job should last more then a couple of years!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Topfish - What year is your engine?


    I have not had that problem, yet, except for the skeg, which is my own doing since I sometimes need to get in and out of my lift at low tide.

    Anyone else having problems with the paint peeling and cracking?
    CHawk 25 DLX

  21. #21

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    2005 and the paint peels on the engine cover.

    Quote Originally Posted by chawk_man View Post
    Topfish - What year is your engine?


    I have not had that problem, yet, except for the skeg, which is my own doing since I sometimes need to get in and out of my lift at low tide.

    Anyone else having problems with the paint peeling and cracking?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northport , Fla,
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Quote Originally Posted by Topfish View Post
    2005 and the paint peels on the engine cover.

    2002 yes paint peel on both cowling under the air intake/ handle part that is pop riveted on
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  23. #23

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Found some Honda exec. contacts and thought I would post them in case anyone might need them:
    Primary contact
    John Mendel
    Executive Vice President, Sales
    john_mendel@ahm.honda.com
    (310) 783-3217
    Secondary contact
    Jeffrey Smith
    Assistant Vice President of Corporate Affairs & Communications
    jeffrey_smith@ahm.honda.com
    (310) 781-5062
    Chief executive(*)
    Koichi Kondo
    President & Chief Executive Officer, Honda North America
    koichi_kondo@ahm.honda.com
    (310) 783-3217

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Topfish - That's great. Thanks for sharing.
    CHawk 25 DLX

  25. #25

    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    I have a 2005 200 Honda with similar alarm issues. Is my motor included in the O2 sensor issues discussed her?

    Thanks
    Gator15

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: o2 sensor issue again

    Yes, probably so. Send me an email at wdneal@sdrnet.com and I will send you service bulletin 56 which lists the affected serial numbers by engine type.
    CHawk 25 DLX

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