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1970 Chrysler 440 misses

B

B Jensen

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Ok, winter projects included new carb (Eldo 1409) and pertronix igniter (1851). The carb install was pretty straight forward, I blocked off the original opening for the old choke since the new carb has electric choke. I wired the electric choke to the positive side of the coil. I plumbed the PVC valve to a new fitting I installed on the intake (removed a plug) since there isn't one on the new carb. Pertonix install was fairly simple as well, I kept the original ballest resistor and coil and wired per instructions. I did remove the noise capacitor that was bolted on top of the ballast resistor. I also installed an oil pressure switch in the ignition circuit that cuts the ignition if I loose oil pressure. I wired this in line with the tan wire that runs to the ballast resistor. Finely, I installed fresh set of champion #14 spark plugs and gapped them at .040 since I read a fatter gap is better with the Pertronix.

Engine starts and runs fairly easily. After a while though (after reaching normal operating temp) the engine started get really lopey at idle (~600 RPM). I re-checked timing: 8 degrees. Seems to smooth out when I bump the RPM up. Underway, the engine stumbled when accelerating. I tried to feather the RPMs up a few times and after a while it was acting a little better and would not cough through the carb.

Back at the dock, idle still stinks. Pulled plugs and half of them are pretty sooty (1,3,6,8). Checked timing again, still 8 degrees. I noticed the ballast resistor is too hot to touch. I wonder if weak spark? I read that some people are changing the coil and removing the ballast resistor but I need some more info on this for use with pertronix unit.

Thoughts? Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give some good info.
 
Try taking power for the choke from somewhere else, another switched source like the ballast resistor, they will get hot. Double check that the choke is pulling all the way off, sounds like its not.
 
Choke is full open and have the idle jets about 1/2 a turn fat ofter turning lean until it stumbled. Will try relocating the hot lead for the choke. You said pick it off the ballest resistor?

Appreciate the input.
 
Jensen, welcome to the forum. At what rpm did you set your timing at? My understanding is to set timing to 7.5 deg at 500 rpm (set carb idle mix here too (@500)). After set, adjust idle to normal operating idle spec.
 
Thanks for the welcome, lots of good info here.

I did set timing at ~600 RPM. Same with the idle mix. I can try the lower RPM along with the different pick-up location for teh choke. I do have the original maunuals for the motor/trans. I thought I read the advance didn't come in until 700 RPM or so, I could be wrong, the books are on the boat. I clenaed and lightly lubed the advance mechanisim when I installed the pertronix unit; springs and movement looked to be ok. I haven't had too much problem with tune-up in the past, thought it might be someting related to the new setup. I've also read that some people find the pertronix tempermental but others use it without problems (different applications). I guess some have an air-gap for the magnet (dwell) but my instructions did not mention this adjustment.
 
I have first gen Pertronix and have had no problems with my 440s. Mind you, the only thing I did was set timing and that was it. I did not change plug gaps etc. Wanted to make sure the only thing I changed was the kit only at first. That way, if something went wrong, I wouldn't have to second guess anything else ie; new carb, plug gap etc. I say ensure your timing is right and then you can move on to something else knowing that part is OK. Hook up a vacuum gauge if you have one when setting up timing and carb, can tell you a lot.
 
I did startk with the carb and then added ingnition, etc. What I failed to do was run/use the boat for any significant time after each part was installed, I just did a quick run at the dock. The last thing I did was install new plugs with wider gap. I downloaded the follwoing article about timing and idle adj using a vacuum gauge:

http://automotivemileposts.com/garage/v2n8.html

I'll give it a try and let everyone know. I wont be able to get to the boat tonight so it may be a couple of days. Thanks again for the advice.
 
Call Pertronix and ask them but I think you can remove the ballast and run 12volts to the coil. Did you know that the 1409 is the wrong carb for a 440? The Edelbrock catalog states that the 1409 is for small blocks and the 1410 for big blocks. I have seen people run the 1409 on big blocks and it works OK if they usually run slow but it doesn't work well above 2700 rpm as the secondaries will be open.

Dan
 
I was going for fuel economy when I chose the 1409 knowing that I don't run 'em hard at all. I have read people talking both sides of the 1409/1410 story.

At a minimum I'm pretty sure I'd have to change the coil if I went without the ballast resistor but was wondering if there were other factors to consider.

Appreciate the feedback.
 
B Jensen said:
I was going for fuel economy when I chose the 1409 knowing that I don't run 'em hard at all. I have read people talking both sides of the 1409/1410 story.

At a minimum I'm pretty sure I'd have to change the coil if I went without the ballast resistor but was wondering if there were other factors to consider.

Appreciate the feedback.
Click to expand...

Hello,
An edelbroch tech told me that the 1410 will actually get better economy on a chrysler 440. He said that it will breath more air rather than gas. The smaller carb will actually feed more gas because it can,flow enough air. It kind of makes sense when I think about it. I have not made the upgrade yet, but plan on it this year after installing new gas tanks due to "evilnol".
 
I had to replace tanks as well (a couple of years ago). I've read that people tend to over carb and that boats have different requirements the cars. I've also seen various calculators that compute carb size. For example: http://www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_CFM_Calculator.html


Based on my boating usage/style (very seldom run it at 3000 RPM) and what I've read in this and other blogs, I went with the smaller carb. Did I make the right choice? The verdict is still out. It's not like I'm making huge hole shots in a 1970, 36 ft Uniflite.


I haven't been able to get to the boat this week, will probably get there tomorrow.

Always appreciate the feedback, this is a great site.
 
Hell, all you need is a two barrel carb!

I'd happily settle for one (two, actually) on my boat IF somebody made a good marine two barrel. I despise the "Rotten-Chester" carbs that I struggled with for years on cars, and Holley carbs have lousy choke systems.

Jeff
 
Ok, was able to spend a couple of hours late this afternoon on the boat. I decided to try setting the timing via vacuum method first before anything else. Remember, I have my PCV valve connected directly to the intake manifold, not through the base of the carb.

I disconnected the PCV valve and attached my gage to the hose going to the intake. Fired it up and let it good and warm. Original timing was ~8 degrees at 600 RPM and pulled ~15 inches. I started advancing the timing and was able to get it up to 25 inches before it started to fall off. Per instruction in the link I posted earlier, I retarded the timing until I showed 24 inches. I then set the idle back down to ~550-600 RPM.

She does run much smoother, turns over easily and starts well. Sometimes I do get a 1 inch flux on the gage. I re-shot the timing and it was about 15 BTC at ~550-600 RPM. Much higher timing than what the manual says. I didn't get a chance to take her out for a test run. I reconnected the PVC valve and it doesn't run quit as smooth and the idle increased slightly. Not sure if that is norm. I was able to adjust the idle back down, but it isn't as smooth. I picked up a new PCV valve (the old one has been on there forever). Will run some more test tomorrow. I did not move the hot wire for the choke; it is still connected to the positive side of the coil. I did verify that the choke is wide open.

Is that timing too high? What’s up with that?
 
Got to laugh for I did the same goof years ago. When you used the PCV fitting for your gage you RICHENED up the motor, so any findings you made went over the side after you hooked the PCV up again.

To wit: You have to use some other fitting for the vacuum gage with the PCV hooked up and functioning.

Jeff
 
Hmmm...I found in the original manual that there are 2 different part number distributors. One is set at 7.5 degrees and the other at 12 degrees. My part number matches the 7.5 one.

I wonder what the difference is? and if the pertronix impacts the timing setting?
 
That'll work, but keep in mind that the vacuum readings will be lower there. A better arrangement would be to put the tee elsewhere than the PCV line.

Jeff
 
Understand, thanks. Under the current setup, it's the only vacuum line I have.

I imagine the main point is to tune for max reading on the gage minus a little to prevent ping. The weather here stinks today but I'm under cover so will try to get back down there.
 
Well, after delays in weather, family concerns and work related trips I finely got the old girl out for a shake down and she ran really good. Nice and smooth all the way up to 3,500 RPM and that’s where I stopped. I've never had them up to 4,000 but I'm confident she would do it with the amount of throttle I had left. I pulled 'em back to about 3,200 and my speed was about 22 MPH on the GPS. Slow plane is around 2,000-2,100 RPM and that gets me 10-12 MPH on the GPS and combined 10 GPH on the floscans. I set the idle at about 600 RPM, the motors are more happy there versus 500. I set the timing using the vacuum gage method; timing at 600 RPM is 11 degrees versus 7.5 specified in the book. I did re-gap the plugs back to .35 and I left the electric choke connections on the coil since it seems to running just fine.

Appreciate any feedback and thanks for all of the comments to this thread.
 
Awsome.

Tolly, just an FYI, I went through the thread again and noted your comment on the Pertronix phone call. The resistor is there for the coil, and changing the way we collapse the field in the primary winding (contacts or Pertronix) does not dictate whether we need a resister or not. We can get rid of the resistor but you'd need to change the coil. Just thought I'd put that out there for future refference.
 
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