Sucker wont start.. Johnson / 1968 / 6hp / model CD25R Any ideas? Pics.

Ok, I'm getting spark.
Carb is getting gas and I took the carb apart and cleaned all orifaces
Choke is all the way in. ( shutter in carb should be open / close or half on cold start?
Its 25 degree out - is that my problem?
Gearing in in neutral.
Rich / Lean mixture screw? what do I do with that? In or out?
Vent on gas tank - open
Am I doing anything wrong?
She is not in a bucket of water, but if I could get her to turn over for a minute or two, that would compell me to fill a bucket.

Also, is this gas square thing configured correctly? ( 2nd pic ) Where could I get a detail on that?
Any online manuals?



Thanks

It only takes a few seconds to melt the waterpump impeller. You should never run it without water. What kind of compression are you getting?

Never ever run one out of the water !!!!!--------If spark does not jump a gap of 1/4" or more you really " have no spark "----------------Choke flapper must be closed to start in warm or cold weather.

ok, got ya...I throw it in a bucket of water.. Where should the rich lean mix screw be? My ncompression tester is not with me right now. ( at my other house out of state ) Compression woot woot sounds strong, but who knows..

Water pump sits directly on top of the lower unit (bolt up area). Have the water about 3" above that point.

(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)
(J. Reeves)
Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

Note 1: As a final double check setting of the slow speed valve(s), if the engine has more than one carburetor, do not attempt to gradually adjust all of the valves/carburetors at the same time. Do one at a time until you hit the above response (die out or spit back), then go on to the next valve/carburetor. It may be necessary to back out "all" of the slow speed adjustable needle valves 1/8 turn before doing this final adjustment due to the fact that one of the valves might be initially set ever so slightly lean.

Note 2: If the engine should be a three (3) cylinder engine with three (3) carburetors, start the adjustment sequence with the center carburetor.
When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:

http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1

Hi-
Just this morning, I remembered that Autozone has rent a tool program. So, I went over and purchased the compression tester for $40 cash and then returned it after I was done. So, I pulled and pulled and pulled and the highest I could get that dial up to was 30 PSI... So, now what do I do? How do I determine if its the head gasket or if its an old tired engine? I'm going to take it part for kicks now.. Now, that I know it basically has no compression. What do I look for when I look at the cylinders and pistons, etc Cross hatching? Skinny rings? Tell me, what ya know? I'll make a video of me taking it a part and showing everything.

Also, any idea what it would cost to fix it? New rings, pistons, hone out the cylinders? How would I know if the cyclinders are to far gone?

Also, thanks for asking.. Seems everyones interested in Polefroggys thread. I feel like a redhead step-child thread, LOL

Pull the cylinder head----------The gasket is likely blown between cylinders -----------Very common.-----------Careful taking the bolts out if it has been run in a salty environment !

When reinstalling the head, tighten the head bolts in the following sequence.

9....10
5.....6
1.....2
4.....3
8.....7

2 stroke pistons are loose at the top of the stroke !--------they are tapered and need extra clearance near the rings.---------- When cold they are loose.--------------When motor runs and pistons warm / heat up they " grow " to fit properly.

Well, I pulled the head and the gasket looks pretty good to me. I didnt see any blow-outs or degraded areas. Maybe you see something? Pistons seem loose in the cylinder. Rings are probably worn and thats why my compression was so low. ( 28 / 30 PSI ) Dont know really where I want to go from here.. Needs a complete re-build I guess.. If I knew what costs would be, I'd throw a $100 at it, but thats about it.. Whats a complete gasket set and pistons / rings cost on something like this? First 3 pics are the head, next 3 are the cylinder/piston

With that kind of carbon build-up I guess you have a pair of stuck rings.
Probably a gasket kit, set of rings and good cleaning, you may have an engine again good for another 30 years.

No kidding? I always thought that sort of carbon build-up was par for the course with 2 strokes?

You have mistaken 'course' with 'curse' of the 2-strokes!
Use Engine Tuner/Sea Foam regularly to keep under control.
However by close look it seems to be a 'dent' in the head, upper cyl??
Looks like it has been there for some time.

Thanks Haffi-
No, thats just a scrape in the carbon build up from a wooden BBQ skewer - to show build-up.. However, I took pictures of the cylinder walls and they have many [ circumfrential (made up word) ] scratches. What can be discerned from that? Any cross hatch marking is gone gone gone.. I can move the piston left and right 1/64th when the piston is up position and down position. When I spin the fly-wheel I can cleally see and smell fuel getting into the cylinders. ( not sure why it would do that with the head off, but it does ) So, carb works fine.. I have laid the engine down and poured oil into the cylinder and on top of each piston. I will let that leak down in and around the rings.. Maybe, I have a frozen ring of some sort, but thats wishful thinking. I will throw a paper gasket on it - re-torque and see if my compression comes up.. If it doesnt, then I dont know what I want to do yet.. So, what can be discerned from the cylinder scratches?

A light honing, new rings and gaskets as mentioned, and you are probably good to go!!
Any fuel left in crank case will be 'pushed up' when spinning the flywheel. Indicates that leaf-valves and crank seals are working.

Thanks for all the tips haffi, racer, and joe..
Yesterday, I thoroughly cleaned the head and top of pistons removing all the carbon. Next, I laid the motor down and poured kerosene mixed with tranny fluid into each cylinder and let it soak down over night around the rings. I cleaned it all out this morning and reinstalled the head with temporary heavy artist paper gasket that I quickly fab'd. I sprayed starter fluid in the carb and low -n- behold she wants to run.. She turned over and ran for a bit on the starter fluid... So, I think I am GtoG.. This motivates me now to spend the money on the head gasket.. So, now I wonder if it was the head gasket after all or stuck rings.

The head gasket showed signs of being " unhappy "----------the one cylinder wall looks better than the other.-------The new head gasket will be a definite improvement.

Scout100: stupid question: just exactly how and when do you spray starter fluid into the carb? Where on/in the carb do you spray it? Thanx for all the help. Ordered rings and head gasket today, will rip her down late next week when I get back to town.....

No, no stupid questions. Spray starter fluid ( even WD 40 will work ) into the throat of the carb. Spray right at the open shutter in open position and spray it right before you attempt to start it (pull the pull-cord)
Before you make any presumptions that you have a stuck-ring / carbon issue, you should shine a flashlight into the spark plug hole and take note to what you see? Lots of built up carbon? Two ways to do this:
Take the head off and see how messy it is and do like I did written above ( overnight lube leak down with lube of your choosing with the head off ) OR leave the head on and do an over night lube leak down ( pour into spark plug hole ) and free up those stuck rings ( if stuck rings is your prob ) Very important to make sure pistons are centerered and even with each other in each cylinder when pouring in.. If they are not, the fluid will just leak out the ports. Stuck or gummed up rings seem to be a big problem with these outboard 2 strokes. As per video and it was my problem as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyCw4SiuT2I Thanks to all for the help and tips. This concludes this post. I'm hoping it can help others. I will add 1 more post with a video showing the motor running in a barrell.