fuel pump push rod stuck in a 454 crusader any ideas how to free it???? and take it out??

[contender31]

Well I went against my better judegement and hired a mechanic to install a new fuel pump in my 454. After 4 hrs of trying to attempt to install the pump he got the push rod stuck got frustrated and left. It is seized in place with about 1/2 " of rod sticking out. The rod will not turn or move even with a set of pliers turning or tuggin on it. I tried to crank the motor to free up the cam but still siezed. Whoever designed this setup must of been drunk there is very little room to grab the rod end. Whe I turn over the engine I heare a clicking sound - any idea how to get the rod out and what the clicking noise is? FYI the rod does not move when turning over the engine.

Thanks in advance for your help

[willow]

Try this..

Go to Google.com

Type in ...how to remove a stuck fuel pump push rod

You will find lots of links to peruse...while some of the Crusader experts here find the time to read your question and possibly answer it here.

[contender31]

Thanks I actually looked there before coming here to ask the crusader guys

[diver_dave]

I haven't had that happen, but I pray this is the port engine!
I think the steel ones are case hardened, so drilling the end may be a challenge. I read where someone suggested welding another steel piece on the end.

[contender31]

Thanks - its the starboard engine the access isnt too bad, i just cant get the rod out, any ideas? experience with this one?

[contender31]

thanks mine is on the starboard engine,wierd I had the rod out yesterday. After the mechanic told me it was stuck I left it overnight, I went down to look at it yesterday morning and somehow it was free, i pulled it, inspected it and all seemed fine. I greased it and reinstalled the pump and when i tried to start the engine no gas. When turned over I heard a clicking noise that seemed peculiar so I went down to take it apart again. This is when I established it was stuck, so for 7 hrs I tried to free it with no luck Note the rod slid in and out without effort so never thought anything of it possibly jamming again. The only thing I didnt check is if the cam was able to move the rod in and out before I reinstalled the pump. I read somwhere that before reinstalling the pump, with someone turning over the engine, slide the push rod in until it cannot go any further and when the cam reverses the direction of the push rod, that is the location the rod should be in before reinstalling the pump. Can anyone verify that to be true?? Also I have read that there is a bolt that is lined up with the rod to hold it in place while installing the pump, is it possible that someone left the bolt in place since the last time the pump was replaced ?? Would the rod work if someone left the bolt in considering the pump worked fine until the diaphram gave out?? Just looking for a little experience and knowledge to get me through this fiasco. Any hints or help woould be greatly appreciated.
Thanks you

[diver_dave]

. I read somwhere that before reinstalling the pump, with someone turning over the engine, slide the push rod in until it cannot go any further and when the cam reverses the direction of the push rod, that is the location the rod should be in before reinstalling the pump. Can anyone verify that to be true?? Also I have read that there is a bolt that is lined up with the rod to hold it in place while installing the pump, is it possible that someone left the bolt in place since the last time the pump was replaced ?? Would the rod work if someone left the bolt in considering the pump worked fine until the diaphram gave out?? Thanks you

I know of no holding bolt; the heavy grease trick works. THere is only the allen head plug, in line with the rod; this gets removed first to let the rod slip out. It is a good idea to crank the engine to get that push rod as far in as possible. It lets the pump in without much lever compression, and there is a fair force involved there. Did the rod show any wear on the cam or pump end? Did you measure it's overall length? Before taking this all out again, prime the pump with an outboard primer bulb upstream, see if it goes.

[contender31]

Thanks - I thought it may have been a air lock but upon taking out the pump fot the second time I saw it was stuck in one position. I had my wife turn the engine with my hand on the rod ad the rod didnt move unfortunately. Prior to that before installing the pump the rod moved freely and I actually had it out and re greased it to hold it in place. When I put the pump back in I made sure the arm of the pump was in behind the rod and then secured the bolts. Before securing the bolts completely I moved the pump and heard that typical suction noise from the pump so I knew I had the arm still in behind the rod. I completely installed everything and when I turned the engine over it wouldnt start, I heard a clicking noise from that area and no fuel was in the carb. I took the pump ooff again and the rod was stuck in place and tried to release it with no luck after 6-7hrs. To answer your question re the condition of the rod, it appeared to have no scoures on it and seemed to have normal wear. I have tried everything from tapping it to grinding down a pair of needlenose vice grips ( the access is very limited) and it still is stuck. I am going to try and put a small hose clamp around the end of it today and pry in behind the clamp to see if I can release it. If I am lucky enough to get it out I have a new one. As I said previously the confusion is that the rod came out and in with no resistance yesterday morning and after installig the pump it is now locked in place. Any more suggestions I am all ears.

Thanks

[diver_dave]

When the pump is out make sure the pump lever will actually move, and therefore not jammed. It is maybe possible that a jammed pump would bend or mushroom the far end of the rod, with difficult to fix consequences. I suppose worse case is that the cam has to come out and the rod tapped into the block to remove. So, do I understand that the mechanic left it in there stuck, it got free overnite, and now, it is stuck for the 2nd time??

[contender31]

In summary yes the rod was stuck when the mechanic left it, the next day I went out and put my finger in the access hole and literally was able to move it with my finger up and down. At that point I pushed the rod up and installed the pump. After installing I attempted to start the engine and no fuel was being pumped into the carb - thus no start. I then went in and took it apart again and that is when I found it stuck again and hear I sit the same. The pump is now off with the rod stuck and no further ahead then after 7 hrs of crappy access work. Frustrating to say the least

[contender31]

I know of no holding bolt; the heavy grease trick works. THere is only the allen head plug, in line with the rod; this gets removed first to let the rod slip out. It is a good idea to crank the engine to get that push rod as far in as possible. It lets the pump in without much lever compression, and there is a fair force involved there. Did the rod show any wear on the cam or pump end? Did you measure it's overall length? Before taking this all out again, prime the pump with an outboard primer bulb upstream, see if it goes.

update : Ok the rod will move up but have to use force to get it up, the cam will push it down but it still is tight in there. I can't rotate the rod and cant pull it out any more than the cam will push it. The hose clamp would fit over the rod but I couldnt tighten it due to the position of the screw on the clamp. Not sure what to do from here, is there a spray that can be shot up the shaft? to perhaps loosen it

[contender31]

update : Ok the rod will move up but have to use force to get it up, the cam will push it down but it still is tight in there. I can't rotate the rod and cant pull it out any more than the cam will push it. The hose clamp would fit over the rod but I couldnt tighten it due to the position of the screw on the clamp. Not sure what to do from here, is there a spray that can be shot up the shaft? to perhaps loosen it

Thanks for the feedback - uunfortunately whoever designed the 454 they didnt put a removable back plate like the 350's to get better access to the rod. The rod was fine when I pulled it out with no sign of warpage, mushrooming or damage. It slid right back in place easily prior to reinstalling the new pump, in fact I needed to use grease to hold it in place to allow me to install the pump. For whatever reason the rod jambed when I re installed the new pump. The pump rocker arm seemed to seat behind the rod and went in with little resistance on installation, so I am confused at this point why the rod is stuck??? Bottom line I am dead in the water until I come up with a solution to get the rod out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[diver_dave]

maybe shoot the rod with a freeze spray. The idea being to shrink the steel. Radio shack may have it. Its pretty weird how it would just fall out one day and get totally stuck the next.

[contender31]

Thanks - freeze spray makes sense - are you talking about the stuff they spray on athletes to numb the soreness? Never heard of it otherwise??

[diver_dave]

no; it's the stuff the electronics industry uses to take components down to -40. Not for skin!!

[bobct]

I think you can get it at Pep Boys as well. Although I prefer the mechnical pumps myself, this might be good reason to install an electrical pump once you get the rod out. I read a post or two about the lobes wearing and no longer able to actuate the pump arm. I don't know if this is your problem but I would be nervous about reinstalling the rod again.

Bob

[Docksidemarineservices]

Did you remove any accessories from the engine to access the pump? On the front of the engine block there is a threaded hole inline with the fuel pupmp push rod. If there is a bolt in the hole that is too long it will bind the push rod.

[contender31]

Did you remove any accessories from the engine to access the pump? On the front of the engine block there is a threaded hole inline with the fuel pupmp push rod. If there is a bolt in the hole that is too long it will bind the push rod.

Hello I dont think thats my problem as the rod worked with the old pump

[contender31]

Thanks this time around I will insert the new rod and check it by cranking the engine over while inspecting whether the rod is pushed by the cam without the fuel pump installed. By turning over the engine it should tell me if the cam is moving the rod downward as it should.

Is this test doable?

[Docksidemarineservices]

Did you remove any accessories from the engine to access the pump? On the front of the engine block there is a threaded hole inline with the fuel pupmp push rod. If there is a bolt in the hole that is too long it will bind the push rod.

If the bolts were removed and mixed up before re-installation it will bind the push rod. Look at the length of the bolts. Besides being covered with burned engine oil, these rods never bind.

[contender31]

If the bolts were removed and mixed up before re-installation it will bind the push rod. Look at the length of the bolts. Besides being covered with burned engine oil, these rods never bind.

1. I have to use good force to get the rod to go up and when I crank over the engine without the pump in the cam will push it down. It is just very difficult to move and it should fall out by gravity.
2. I would think if it were bent the cam wouldn't push it all would it? The rod has appr 3/4" exposed and wont come any further
3. I hear a clicking noise of the cam hitting the rod when the engine is turned over
4. I dont think the bolts are an issue as the old pump worked fine and I had the rod out to inspect it and regrease it.
5. Not sure of the length as I never measured it when it was out.
Not sure where to go from here - rod stuck, little access and cant convert to electric due to the cam hitting the rod??? any ideas on how to get the damn thing out?

[Docksidemarineservices]

Remove the bolts from the front of the block and see if normal operation returns.

[contender31]

Well after several hrs of bs trying at min 15 tactics recommended by everyone, tomm we are going to weld a threaded rod on the end of the rod and with a washer and nut we will back it out by turning in the bolt until it comes out. It will be interesting to see what condition the rod will be in, without doubt I will be installing a new one

Thanks for all your input and hope none of you ever have to experience what I did the past week. Summary when you replace the pump replace the rod with it ($15) and a whole lot less aggravation When putting the rod back in grease it push it in and with someone at the ignition-turn over the cam until it starts the rod back down and stop-take the pump and install it making sure the pump arm is firmly behind the rod and make sure the arm stays thare while your tightening down the bolts.

Thanks

[Troublemaker]

Make sure you disconnect your battery's. You do not want to fry your electronics.

TM

[contender31]

Well we welded the all thread on to the end of the rod and with no problem it came out, the first 3 turns of the nut it was tight but then it popped out. The rod had a gouge in it inside the sleeve. I think the mechanic installed the pump incorrectly and the arm on the fuel pump gouged it. Reinstalled the pump and 4 cranks and it started right up. Thank go that is over and moral to the story is change the rod when you install a new pump, make sure the rod is at the start of the down cycle before installing the pump.

Thanks for all your support and help, until next time adios