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Mercruiser 1993 3.0 L Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

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kevlh23

New member
I have a 1993 Bayliner 2051 with 3.0 MerCruiser with an Alpha One outdrive. I wasn't the last one to take it out but was told there was a "problem" I started it up hooked to the hose and once I shift it into gear the engine stalls and theres loud clanking coming from the engine/outdrive area. Not sure if this is a common problem with these units or if it can be repaired. Can anyone shed some light onto this problem im having? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

sounds like the lower unit gears/bearings have seized up, or the propshaft is severely bent. probably need a new lower unit, or whole outdrive.
Drain the outdrive lube and see what flows out.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

Yep, check for metal chunks, water intrusion etc.hopefully a bad cable and shift interrupter set up causing this, but Hystat is probably correct.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

Ayuh,... Drain the oil outa the drive, 'n See what it looks like....
Silvery is Bad,...
Water is also Bad...
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

I drained the gear oil and there wasnt any metal in it so I removed the top cap of the outdrive to look at the gears. All gears looked fine. Now im really stumped. Also the prop spins freely.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

Before you go nuts....be careful what you read here. There are many explanations. First, and I would say the most common is the shift cable. The 2nd would be the interupt switch. These all work together. You need to do step by step.Need to know when this happened. Was it your first time out this season? Did you have this issue last time out? Sometimes over winter storage cables can get tight. You can shift few times forward and then reverse before you run the engine to possible free up. After you start motor and warm up, try shifting. If it stalles on trailer you will need to look at the interupt switch when you shift. If it engages on land, you have issue with cable or the adjustment. You should pull them drive and also check for corrosion in the shift cavaity and the shift lever to see if it is bound. Then you can shift with drive off to see if it shifts free.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

Affmarine is absolutely correct. My add on advice is "Do not touch the shift interrupt switch". If it is stalling your engine it is working correctly. 99% of the time it is the lower shift cable.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.0 Stalls When Shifted Into Gear

Every one wants to help.

So heres the real deal, we now know the gears are good. So my next guess, is the u joint.

See heres MY reasoning, clanking is the u joint cut loose.

You have the drive all the way down while you run it and not all the way up ?

We can only go with what we are told by you.

We can only trouble shoot from miles away while you touch, feel, smell your boat.

MY suggestion, still won't cost you anything, is remove the drive. Well it will cost you a 4 dollar gasket.

Put the throttle in forward gear, and remove the rams, and the six nuts and remove the drive.

Inspect the u joint the gimbel bearing real, real good.

Post back.

See if it turns out to be the lower cable,you have to remove the drive anyway.

I am not saying it's the lower cable , i am not telling you to buy anything yet !

The reason i am not telling you to buy anything yet is cause we don't know what the f--k went on your boat yet.

And no one does know yet.

We won't know till we do some more trouble shooting.

You of course can ignore everything posted here.

And then again you can hire a guy to rape you for labor, and parts.

Or you can stick will what Hy, Bond-o and i post here and we can get you back on the water the cheapest and safest way possible.

We await your reply.
 
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affmarine said:
Before you go nuts....be careful what you read here. There are many explanations. First, and I would say the most common is the shift cable. The 2nd would be the interupt switch.
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kevlh23 said:
once I shift it into gear the engine stalls and theres loud clanking coming from the engine/outdrive area.
Click to expand...

"loud clanking" doesn't say shift cable or interrupt switch to me, but it is hard to diagnose noises over the internets

could be u joint or gimbal - but no noise in neutral kind of odd.... they usually make more noise out of gear than in it....
 
No noise not in gear ?

I re-read the first thread maybe your right i didn't read it that way.

Put into gear and it stalls and makes noise the drive lower mayber gears went.

But no metal pieces in the oil we already know that.

I vote again for the u joint, or gimbel.
 
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The clanking could be as simple as...........when he shifts into gear it is RACHETING and he is calling it klinking........when out of the water it sounds a whole lot worse then when in the water......

Just my 2 cents..........after all the F'n taxes that is.......
 
affmarine said:
Before you go nuts....be careful what you read here. There are many explanations. First, and I would say the most common is the shift cable.
Click to expand...
I would tend to agree if the OP has mis-diagnosed the klinking or clanking sound.... and/or if the OP is not attempting a nice crisp, concisive shift into gear! The nature of the Dog Clutch!

kghost said:
The clanking could be as simple as........... when he shifts into gear it is RACHETING and he is calling it klinking........ when out of the water it sounds a whole lot worse then when in the water......
Click to expand...
I'd think that we have a BINGO here, since this apparently is not being heard while in neutral, and engine running!

.
 
Here is the cable adjustment proceedure........



Trim out drive up 2 inches from all the way down.
Take keys out of ignition!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a second person stand at the prop.
You, remove the short shift cable from the shift bracket.
After the cable has been removed, push the plastic cable end all the way in and hold in place while prop is being spun C’Clockwise..
Have second person rotate prop counter clock wise until the prop is fully engaged and wont turn anymore. Maintain light effort on shift cable plastic end pushing it to keep forward engaged.

Measure the distance from the center of the brass trunion to the center of the round mounting hole in the plastic end. Adjust trunion to make that distance 6 inches. no more no less! In cases where the shift cable is old but still works well you can adjust this dimension to 5 15/16”. NO MORE. If the trunion has been factory crimped then no adjustment should be made. Also the short shift cable should move fairly freely with just your thumb and index finger. If you need to use a lot of force then the cable is shot.....

Put shift control handle in forward FULL throttle position.
Remove the control shift cable from shift bracket at this time.

Install short shift cable back onto bracket at this time.

Take the shift control cable and adjust the trunion so it fits perfectly back into the shift bracket.
Before installing it turn the brass trunion 4 complete turns away from the plastic end and reinstall into shift bracket.

Now put shift control handle in the neutral position.
Have second person spin prop, it should spin freely.
Put shift control into the forward detent position at ~ 10:00 position. NO FUTHER.
Have the second person rotate the prop counter clockwise. You should have solid engagement with no ability to continue to turn the prop.

Now shift back into neutral. Prop should spin freely with no clacking or clunking.

Now shift to reverse to the 2:00 o’clock position detent NO FURTHER!!

Have the second person spin the prop clockwise.

If you have positive engagement with no clunking or jumping out of engagement, you are done.

If it does not fully engage into reverse than look at the shift bracket where the short shift cable mounts and there is a slot. Loosen the 7/16 hex that is touching the bracket and move the stud so you are pulling the short cable.

Try this and retest in water under load.
 
kghost, just for fun......, consider this as an alternative, or a supplemental method, for the OEM lower shift cable adjustment.
You must get the OEM procedure out of your mind while doing so, and for the moment, forget the 5 -15/16” dimension!
Keep in mind that the OEM design has allowed (or has considered) that cable travel provides slightly more than what is necessary for either gear engagement!
Our job is to locate center of all components, for "neutral"! Would you agree?

*****************************************

Using your/OEM procedure, rotate prop back/forth just as you have described above.
Rotate the propeller rather quickly back/forth...... and continue doing this.... trying not to vary from your rhythm!

The person in the engine bay will be moving and adjusting the lower shift cable until the sound of the Dog Teeth can just be heard making initial, but NOT FULL Gear Engagement!
(this is where we/OEM differ)
Shoot for just the mild ratcheting sound of initial sliding sleeve contact ONLY... No Full engagement!
Reason: once the Dog Clutch engagement teeth have made initial engagement, the remaining engagement becomes a function of dynamics. IOW, we do not need further cable travel to complete this engagement. (assuming that these are in great condition)
This is the same force that we must over-come with a shift from gear, back into neutral! Hense the SI!

When this "Initial" clicking is heard, make note of where you are in terms of cable travel or position.

Now do this for the opposite gear engagement...... again, just the mild ratcheting sound of initial contact ONLY.

Again, note where you are in terms of cable travel or position.

Here is the key point, IMO:
When this noted travel is "split/divided" equally, and when adjusted to this "split", we have now determined a more true "Neutral" position of the lower cable relative to the actual "Neutral" position of the Dog Clutch sliding sleeve!
IOW, we have effectively centered the sliding sleeve AND the cable travel at the engine mounted shift unit!

Do this several times in each direction, until you are comfortable that center has been achieved as best you can.

The actual center position of the cable and sliding sleeve is what this entire process is all about.
Again...... would you agree?

IMO, this procedure removes any deviation that we may find from one cable to another, and/or from one piece of adjustment hardware to another.

NOTE: The OEM instructions make an asssumption that all cables and hardware are same!
The OEM also considers that one average dimension will work for ALL adjustments!
True, for the most part!

I am far from being a "shade tree" mechanic, and I fully understand that this deviates greatly from the OEM procedure. However, there are times when thinking "outside-of-the-box" can be beneficial! This particular procedure is not speculation, it has worked well for me, and is a result of my doing it for years, and with success! (I no longer do any MC work, however.... or at least, not much!)

This may not be for everyone.... I'm just sharing, and tossing it onto the table here! :)

BTW, this works for the OMC Cobra drive as well.

*************************************

I look forward to the day that the "A" drive also evolves into Cone Clutch gear engagement!:D

.
 
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Here is my take.

1. Factory installed transom assemblies come with the short shift cable pre installed. That cable's trunion is CRIMPED at 6 inches. PERIOD!
2. The purpose of the 6 inches is (with all being "perfect") this determines the total allowable travel of the cable, linkage and therefore the clutchdog.

We, the people of knowledge and experience have to make some assumptions that certain things are what they are. IE: in good shape. Remember we are offering advice to those who may or may not know anything. With out the boat bieng in our posession there is not much to actually go on.....



I see and understand your thoughts BUT the object is not to achieve neutral with a ALPHA, it is with a BRAVO.

Just adjusting to clutch teeth initial engaement as you suggest I feel is not a good or easy method for those who do not understand or know much about this. Also the key in my opinion is full engagement by 10:00 and 2:00. Now newer systems with the spring loaded pusher this may be a valid method. Myself and many others still have the old cable only system.....


The object is to achieve full forward and reverse engagement where neutral will automatically follow. I think you may have it a bit backwards.


I consider myself a EXPERT on the alpha shift system from the control box all the way to the clutch dog. There is not much if anything I have not found wrong allong the way............I even have dived all the way into mercs side mount control boxes and repaired the imfamous push button shift dissengagement for start up. I used to repair the parts and replace the ball bearing giving a perfectly good control several more years of use due to a worn ball bearing and ramp/cam rod inside.

OK that bieng said, I understand your method BUT I absolutley know my method works........the 5 15/16 measurement is a valid one when the engagement teeth (clutch dog/gears), linkages and or the cable are worn and are slightly out of the specifiations. By shorting up the travel of the SS cable it allows more travel relative to the control cable. basically a slight multiplier. This is a fine balance as it can also cause a over cable movement and cause the shift interuptor to engage.

After many years of perfoming this method I simply found it was the easiest for others to understand.
 
Chief, I read the article. It appears that Stuart is referencing another procedure, but I do not see it. Perhaps you could include what he is referencing.

Kghost, like I suggested, I posted this for consideration ONLY.
You must be willing to think outside of the box, and understand it, in order for this to be an effective method!
If you are not willing, then best to stick with the OEM procedure.
Again..... this has NOT been speculation on my part! I would not dare post speculation!
If you have not attempted this as an alternate procedure to the OEM....., then perhaps you yourself may be speculating on how it may NOT be a good procedure.

Furthermore.... owners who are not skilled in this area (OEM or other), should probably NOT be attempting this adjustment in the first place!
This would best be left to a professional.... perhaps someone like yourself.

BTW, not sure that I understood your comment re; "the object is not to achieve neutral with a ALPHA, it is with a BRAVO."
The drive in question is a 1993 A drive, Dog Clutch engagement.

You and I must simply agree to disagree on this one....., and in a gentlemanly way.
No offense taken, and I certainly hope no offense taken by you. :D
Fair enough?
 
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Never any offense taken or meant........only from/to the "newbees"....lol Got to get em riled up ya know........


The reference to neutral in a bravo vs an alpha is meant that the bravo set up leans towards getting neutral correct in order to get the outdrive off. If I am not mistaken the plastic set up gauge used sets neutral. The remainder of the control cable movement gives more than enough to engage forward and reverse. Also no interuptor switch to cause head aches.


1993 I believe may have syill had only the cable to cable and no push/pull assist. I really dont remember at the moment.

One thing that must be taken into consideration when looking at the cable adjustments is, one is trying to avoid OVER throw whne the ss cable is over driven by the control cable. This will engage the interuptor switch. Thus for this reason I feel setting it up to both extremes for forward and reverse will keep this from ocurring. If one sets up a neutral position as a starting point this issue could stil occur and therefore would still need to be adjusted to overcome.

One thing is for sure with the alpha, reverse is the more difficult gear to achieve. DOnt forget there is a gear tooth engagement difference between forward and reverse. Forward gears spec is twice as tight as reverse so "true" neutral.

Hold the Boat!! Now after typing all of this especially the last two sentences I see what you are descibing. Actually due to the gear (?????) teeth engagement tolorance (cant think of the correct word, brain freeze) this finding the real neutral may be a good thing.

I will have to dwell on this and discuss it at a later time.........It is almost cocktail time before we get hit with another freaken snow storm.....Snow banks in my driveway are 6 ft tall now.........
 
Rick, With out going in to great detail here, There have been certain times where I have had to use your "outside-of-the-box method" And it has worked very well for me.

Even though you still need to keep the OEM's way of adjusting the cable out to within close reason, I have however found your way to be easier to do when the OEM's way seems to be giving me a hard time for one reason or another at adjustment, And those reasons could be just about anything from me having a bad or rushed day all the way up to something might not be 100% right anywhere between the shifter down to the drive unit.

I've even had to do it a few times while at the lake for testing Because I didn't have all of the tools with me at the time.;)

Doing it either way works well though, It just depends on the certain situations for me it seems.:) But I do like your way of doing it.:)
 
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I don't even know why i posted hastings here. Please disregard.

There is one thing i do know. When a lower cable goes it goes.

Meaning when new and adjusted correctly, will stay adjusted and operate correctly till it goes.

If the lower cable is out of adjustment, after say 10 years then ether the end went in the drive, corrosion binded the end or just stretched, then it's time for a new lower. oem is better has a extra coating inside.

About hastings jeez i swear i don't know what i was thinking. There was another question on the other forum and i copied it, and i posted it here i just don't know i had a brain fart.
 
Kghost, I just read your post! Thanks for that!
I want to be clear..... it has ZERO to do with me being right/wrong, or you being right/wrong. That was never part of any agenda... nor did you suggest that it was! We're Good! :)
It's simply a matter of preference..... as I believe we both know.

None-the-less, I think that it's great that you are open to this idea, and gave it some consideration.
Like the old TV cereal commercial...... "Let Miky try it! ....... He likes it.... He likes it!" :D


I'd almost be willing to bet, that when the first drive (of this type) was being engineered and developed, at some point before the OEM Service Manual had been written, a Tech or Mechanic had to come up with a means of centering this cable system to make everything work. He may very well have done something similar.
But later when reduced to "Text" for the OEM S/M..... they needed numbers for the end user!
Who knows?


Chief, at first I thought that Stuart was commenting on a contrast between the unorthodox procedure, -vs- the OEM. Hence my comment!
As for "Brain Farts".... I'm the Chairman of the "BF Club", and I offer you a warm welcome!

Boat_Tech, glad to see that it has some value to you as well.
I've passed this along to a few unskilled owners before, and they too have found it to work well for them. The end result is actually the same, but often hearing it put differently, makes it work for some!

Let's carry on!
Mr. kevlh23, did you get your issue resolved yet?

.
 
To OP:

Do everything you can to adjust for neutral, forward and reverse as described. You'll have the drive off to get these dimensions perfect, so replace the shift cable and get that shift interrupt switch working perfectly.

When you're done, the lake will be froze over. Next winter make a permenant repair to that interrupt switch with a pair of side cutters. Now you're ready for summer 2012!
 
When you're done, the lake will be froze over. Next winter make a permenant repair to that interrupt switch with a pair of side cutters. Now you're ready for summer 2012!
Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... That's 1 Guaranteed way to turn a boat into a Dock Buster,....:rolleyes: :(
 
RicardoMarine said:
Oh I wish that it were that simple! :D

Amen, Mr. Bondo! :D
As much as we may hate the SI, it is necessary with Dog Clutch "DIS"-engagement! :mad:
Click to expand...

That's what NASA engineers said about Challenger. Rumor has it that some were hired by OMC/Merc.

OP should focus on engine tuning (money well spent). Set the idle down to where the dog clutch can be disengaged without SI.

I'm in a marina with buuucccooo dollar boats around my dock. Take it slow and no problems docking.

The only sound comparable to a clutch dog snapping fully and firmly into gear as you start up the lake, is a can of cold Blue being opened on a hot summer day!

The SI should not activate going into gear. You won't get full engagement with a little "tink" sound coming from the drive.
 
This is the OP's concern, if I understood him.
kevlh23 said:
.............. I started it up hooked to the hose and once I shift it into gear the engine stalls and theres loud clanking coming from the engine/outdrive area. .............
Click to expand...


widi59 said:
................
  1. OP should focus on engine tuning (money well spent). Set the idle down to where the dog clutch can be disengaged without SI.
  2. The SI should not activate going into gear.
  3. You won't get full engagement with a little "tink" sound coming from the drive.
Click to expand...
  1. That would be great if it wasn't for prop thrust in the water wanting to continue holding gear engagement!
  2. Correct.
  3. If plural (tinks) agreed.
 
RicardoMarine said:
This is the OP's concern, if I understood him.



  1. That would be great if it wasn't for prop thrust in the water wanting to continue holding gear engagement!
  2. Correct.
  3. If plural (tinks) agreed.
Click to expand...

Anticpate and slow down!

Been to traffic court a few times. Nothing major. I hear a driver tells the judge:

1. Defendant: I saw deer next to the road so I increased speed to get by them before they had a chance to jump out in front of me.

2. Defendant: Police officer gave me a ticket for speeding.

3. Judge says, is that your defense??

4. Defendant, yes.

5. Judge, when people see deer, the accepted practice is to slow down.

6. Blank look from defendant.

7.Judge says, guilty, pay the fine.
 
Set the idle down to where the dog clutch can be disengaged without SI.
Click to expand...

Ayuh,... That's the Problem, it Can't, 'n Won't disengage,... Period...

Yer cute stories don't change the Fact, that that's just plain ole BAD Information....
 
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