Free play or drifting in Saginaw style power assist unit on 1988 Alpha One generation drive.

Working through on problem at a time and thanks to you guys, have been making significant progress with boat rebuild project, but have another issue that concerns me! This is the deal:

I have free-play in Saginaw power assist that I purchased on ebay which was brand new in the box and never used. I went with this style because that was what was on the boat and it was leaking where it swivels on transom. I also did not want to change over to the quick connect setup because the one high pressure hose cost me a hundred bucks about a year ago. I know this is a nla part and I read about the new style and the advantages but just did not want to have to replumb or retrofit. I know there are benefits to the newer style assist with the quick coupler or disconnects but figured I would make a change after this one croaks. Anyway, The steering cable is brand new and hooked up correctly, the pins are nice and tight with very little play so it is not a wear problem. the tiller is tight and there is no free play in gimble ring. As I rock the drive (holding the sides of drive and going back and forth from starboard to port) and with the drive facing straight back or dead ahead, I am getting approximately 4 or 5 degrees of free play. The free play is in the piston on the power assist actuator only!
Question: I just installed it about a month ago and was wondering if there is any bleeding procedure that I possibly have overlooked? Or is there some sort of adjustment in the hydraulics to get rid of the rocking side to side issue that I am experiencing?
Any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks again, Tom

I dont beleive ther is anything to do.

How much slop is there??

If it is about 1/4 -1/2 inch, it may be normal............degrees dont mean alot to me anyway.........

Also remember, the power assist does not control steering slop. it controls ease of use similar to power steering in a auto.

"POWER ASSIST" not steering cable slop

What you see on land may not always work against you in the water.

The two most important issues with steering is the gimbal housing to steering pin slop, cable to steering wheel slop,

other minor contributors would be the slop at the hinge pins for the gimbal housing and the clevis pins where the cable attaches to the steering link to the steering pin.

I think what you have is perfectly normal.

The boat has never touched water yet! Holding a straight edge from the ground at the furthest aft position on drive. (If that made sense! lol) I have approximately (on the high side) 3/4 of an inch of slop or free play. There is no play or movement in the hinge pin area. It was all replaced brand new. Also, the clevis pins were all replaced brand new and have no slop. It feels like air trapped in the system and seems pretty soft rather than stiff (sort of like no resistance). The movement is definitely in the power assist piston only. Maybe I have some air in the system being that I have not really cycled the steering wheel much except to remove trim sender screws. I am hoping this is the case and it will work itself out of system. Also, the whole steering system is brand new and installed correctly. One last question: If the power steering pump is not producing enough pressure would that not possibly cause a condition like this? The pump is holding fluid (no leaks) and seems to be working fine. (no squealing or slipping of belts). How many pounds of pressure should this pump be producing on the high pressure end? Maybe I could pressure test some how! thanks again, Tom

Ayuh,... A couple of things come to mind,...

1,.. The system is bled by turning the wheel lock to lock a 1/2 dozen times, with the motor Off....

2,.. I believe most of the slop you see is just the valving in the unit,...
It's Supposed to do that, to a degree, when the motors Off, 'n there's no pressure....

3,.. I believe the pump should be producing about 1500psi, under Full Load...

Thanks Bondo for the info. I really haven't gone crazy turning the wheel yet so hopefully it will get a little better after turning wheel lock to lock! I did not know this!
all the best, Tom

You need a sea trial first before you start looking for problems. As mentioned above, what appears wrong on land may not be a problem on the water.

I plan a water test on Sunday if I can get all the safety equipment for the boat before then! Thanks 02batsea for the reply, I think I am good to go but do not like to assume anything. This is all new to me and want to do the right and safe thing the first time around. This boat has never launched with this engine system before so it should be quite interesting to see how it goes!lol It originally had an 85 hp Evinrude outboard and I totally rebuilt,reconfigured,retrofit boat to accept a 3.7lx 180 hp L4 or 470. I have done every upgrade there is to this motor except for roller rockers and an electric fuel pump which I just may do at a later date. Gotta work any bugs out of the system first! I'll post how it goes if I can get her in the water Sunday. talk to you later, Tom

Well I can not say I agree with your motor choice.........

The imfamous 3.7 (470) "can" be a good motor BUT, it is plagued with issues.

1. if you have not, do a electronic ignition conversion, to petronix......big plus!!
2. I hope you went with a one wire altenator conversion vs the stock stator and voltage regulator...............
3. there were two different heat exchangers, hope you have the 4 incher........
4. Did you pressure check all the manifolds and antifreeze resevoirs???? They can and do leak and not to the out side but to the inside.
5. Number 1 or number 4 piston/rod have been known to have issues, hope yours does not!!
6. this is a merc long block with a ford big block head, there is no need for fancy valve train components, no big power to gain......
7.yours should have a rochester 4bbl carb.....make sure it is in very good shape,
8. these motors are very suseptable to over heating, MAKE SURE your impellor and all is in very good shape. If it has over heated before you owned it there is a very good chance the timing chain may need replacement.
9. Parts for this motor are and or will be very hard to find now or in time, buy as many spares for this as possible if you plan on keeping it going, these motors can be found cheap running and not running, BUY EM!!!!

10. If it were me I would have installed a V6 or V8 where parts are readliy available and more power etc etc etc...
11 If your boat is a 1973 make sure your gas tank is NOT fiberglass, if it is it must be changed to plastic or aluminium!!!! Todays alcohol /gas will eat molocules away from the fiberglass and ruin your valve train.....

Good luck!!
6.

kghost, I have done every single upgrade that you have mentioned! It has a Rochester Quadrajet like you said, the four inch heat exchanger, 3 wire alternator conversion (high mount),Pertronix electronic ignition,8mm wires, gapped at .040. The engine was just rebuilt last winter. I had a machine shop bore out to .030 (they had to clean cylinders up). I installed all new seals through the motor, new cam and seals, new mains,new rod bearings, new piston and rings, timing gear off of crank was bad so had to replace gear and key. Running Valvoline synthetic 10-W30 oil, rebuilt head and all gasket sets.
When I first got engine it had sat for about 4 years and as you said above #1 and #4 were locked up! (water intrusion). It was a real mess! Anyway you are probably right about the 4.3 litre as an alternative. It cost me alot of money to rebuild the engine my self. I know with all the bells and whistles it came out close to $3500.00. Anyway, I know what you are saying about availability for parts. They are getting scarce! I have a spare engine that a buddy gave me that is running and I did what you said and am still buying parts off craigslist locally. I found a Rochester Quadrajet and intake manifold for $25.00. I also bought another Quadrajet from a mechanic friend.
I also have a buzzer and some sort of water overheat switch that I have not hooked up as of yet. It is located next to the water temp sending unit and looks to be made out of stainless rather than. I am hoping it works because I think that may be hard to find out there. The engine runs really good and I am aware of all the issues with this engine system. The one that bothers me the most is the cam driven water pump seals. I loaded the inner lips of seals with 2-4c before reassembling and was told at Breezeworks to make sure and flush out coolant system every year by draining out the brass plug at 7:00 at the front face of engine timing cover. This the lowest point of the cooling circuit and all the solids and fines get spun around the seals and cam end which causes much of the coolant leaks. When I originally broke down my engine in this area I swear to God there was so much brown slimy sandy material that it blocked the weep hole so the previous owner probably had coolant leaking and did not even know it. Anyway, we will see what happens and I will take heed about what you said! thanks kghost, Tom
Oh, one more thing: The tank is a Mueller plastic 40 gallon gas or diesel belly tank. I know about the fiberglass and the e-10. How can you forget one of the longest ongoing posts when the guy from Australia wiped I think was a 350? I am concerned about this e-10 and now maybe e-15 fuel!
I have set my timing from 8 dbtdc to 6degrees btdc. The book calls for 4 but with the pertronix, the engine seems to be able to get idle lower and runs really nice. So what the heck do we set it to when e-15 comes around? lol. Man, these people are something else! One minute your playing chess and then the change the entire game so you are forced to buy more new junk that hasn't even been tested with e-15! said enough already,talk to you guys later.

Never got a chance to get back to you guys and like o2batsea said, you really got to run it to find out if it is good in the water. I tried to post awhile back but could not post on two occasions about a month ago. I ran her on a 49 degree day and I am glad I did because it got cold right after that! Anyways, the boat performed like a champ! Also, the steering worked beautifully! I ran it pretty hard on a local river not too far from my shop and all went well. I found out that with a full tank, my boat weighs 2416lbs. (I scaled it at a local quarry!) I also have to say that the fuel consumption rate was incredible! I have a forty gallon belly tank as stated above and I looked at the gauge after two hours of hard running that I only used about a 1/16th of a tank of fuel! I am conservatively estimating that I will be able to run approximately 10-12 hrs. on a full 40 gallon tank! Considering that I ran an old junky aluminum 19 pitch prop which had a 1/2 inch of wear off of each blade, I was still able to achieve between 32 and 35 miles per hour. (approximately) My boat is heavy for an eighteen footer but is built like a tank. (I think I got a little carried away! lol, but just the same I am proud of what I accomplished!) The front of the boat is closed at the bow section which limits space but just the same it would give me somewhat of a better chance from being swamped! I have approximately 25-26 inches of freeboard at the stern and that was with a full tank and my brother and I weighing in at approximately 450lbs. The full tank also weighs about 290lbs full, not saying I will ever run full but I guess it is good to have reserve fuel. (You never know!) Anyways, I just wanted to thank a bunch of you guys for all your help with my boat restoration project! The outcome has exceeded my expectations! It really has become a beautiful little boat considering it is a 1973 hull. Couldn't have done it without you guys! Especially, kghost,bondo,boatdoctor,makomark,o2batsea,ricardo marine and anyone else I may have left out! May all of you have a joyful, healthy, prosperous New Year! Hope to bother you guys some more this coming year! lol (Just kidding!) Best wishes, sincerely, Tom

The outcome has exceeded my expectations!

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Ayuh,.... I'm Glad it's workin' out for ya, 'n I'm Glad I could be of help,.... Best of Luck to ya,...

I gotta agree with kghost though,...
I think I'd give up boats, buildin' 'em, 'n runnin' 'em,...
Before I dumped That much effort inta a 470..... :rolleyes: Really....

Well I can not say I agree with your motor choice.........

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10W30 wt. oil sounds too light for that engine. Although it will work I would consider using 15W40, 25W40 (Merc) or 15W50. Many of today's automotive engine oils no longer contain all of the wear additives required by marine engines.

Bondo, I agree with you but was afraid of weight issues with a v-6 or v-8 and I got the engine and drive for free so that is why I stuck with the 470.(although they were in bad shape when I got them) Maybe I will eventually drop a v-8 into her at a later point if the 470 acts up on me, but for now I will run it as long as it lasts. I have another motor that is running that a buddy gave me, so I was thinking of a plug and play kind of deal for the meantime. I also am aware that the ratio of the drive would have to be changed if I were to change to a v-8 along with manifolds, mounts etc. Honestly, seeing how the hull sat in the water I am kind of disappointed in myself for not going with a v-8. (I was afraid of the added weight) I am not to impressed with the 4.3 litre v-6 motors! Owned one of them already and had alot of problems with it. I honestly thought it was proper junk. jmho I could not help reading a few times about the ricardo marine post about the 383 motor that he talked about on a good few occasions. I would love to build that particular engine if I had the time and money to do so! However, fuel prices are a continuing problem for all boaters these days and efficiency was a factor in my decision. I don't think 40 gallons would take you to far with any type of v-8 these days. And I am certainly not looking for any larger sized boat. The one I have can go anywhere under the right conditions. I would love to be able to find a diesel engine that is light enough, has 250 horsepower,yet fairly efficient on fuel,and would bolt up to an Alpha One of course having the right ratio. I read about a Mercruiser Cummins 1.7 litre but I think it is only 120-140 horse. They say it
it is great on fuel but maybe light on horsepower and or torque for my particular boat. Plus, they are quite expensive to buy. I would love to be able to slam a 7.3 litre turbo v-8 into that sucker giving around 275 horse and about 550 ft. pounds of torque but I think it weighs around 1400-1600 lbs. I don't think my little boat could carry that much weight. I know where there is a running 7.3 litre in a truck that runs but they want $2200 dollars for it.What other engines do you guys go with in say an 18 foot vessel besides the 4.3 v-6 or stock 350? I am thinking that diesel might be the way to go because of torque but finding a rebuildable block for the right price is the problem. Also, what ratio drive would you use with a diesel application and or is it feasable? Just stirring up some ideas for now, that is all. Thanks guyjg for the info. on the oil. I have been hard pressed to find an exact oil that any of the 470 owners can agree on, but will definitely take your advice to heart. thanks, Tom

What other engines do you guys go with in say an 18 foot vessel besides the 4.3 v-6 or stock 350?

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Your boat is only limited by the Coast Guard placard HP limit. I have an older V-6 4.3L that puts out 175 HP. It is enough for my 18.5' runabout.

What other engines do you guys go with in say an 18 foot vessel besides the 4.3 v-6 or stock 350?

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Ayuh,... I'd go/ would have gone, with the 4.3L... Plenty of Power for an 18'er....
My 4.3LX is a 205hp, with well over 1200hrs,... No Problems at All...

A 350 will make an 18'er a Handful,... a 383 would be Suicidal...

I'm also a Diesel kinda guy, but core motors/ used motors/ drives are rare as hen's teeth....

4.3s, 'n 350s are a Dime a Dozen....