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Penzoil or Rotella?

R

rmm

Regular Contributor
Been using Penzoil straight 30w but heard good recommendations about Rotella and thinking about switching. Wondering what expreiences have been with Rotella? or are they all pretty much the same? Engines are Crusader 454 with about 1500 hrs.
 
I've been using Rotella myself, 30w but not a long history with this boat. Slightly off topic, I've been reading about cam wiping because of the lack of zinc. Some people have been using zinc additives.

Is that a know issue on late 80's 454's?
 
I work in a oil refinery so I have to give my 2 cents, please remember these are my opinions. All motor oil manufacturers submit samples to a 3rd party for testing. The oil must pass a extensive battery of tests before being released with certification for sale. With that being said, everyone has a favorite brand, Pennzoil, Castrol, Mobil ect.ect. It is not so much the brand name that is important as much as what grade you use and its additive package. IMO only. I am not a fan of straight grade oil. It lacks the additive package that the multi-grades carry. When I worked in the engine lab we torture tested engines using the different oils, tore them down and measured the wear. I seen first hand the difference. Again, IMO, and not posting this to start a fight. I not a fan of 100% synthetics. Basically they are a blend of additives, and some additives dont play well with others. What I mean is they seperate from each other. So running a marine engine at moderate rpm's this could be a bad thing. bobct brings up a good point about additives, they make or break the oil. This is my suggestion, google what circle track racers are using. They have a ton of money in their engines that have to last a season, plus they torture them far worse than the average marine engine goes through. What I use.... a 50/50 synthetic blend, 20/50 multigrade racing oil. Each engine (454's) has 2800 hours, no oil usage, no smoke and 145 to 150psi compression on each cylinder. Again these are only my opinions.
 
Excellent report!

The important thing to keep in mind is, does your engine(s) have roller tappets or flat tappets? If roller, you can run lots of oils without a concern, but with flat tappets you need an oil that still has ZDDP or other extreme pressure additives still in it. Rotella diesel oils still do, so that's what I use with my old Mopar 360s.

Jeff
 
Jeff - do you know what year they switched to roller tappets? I think I have flat tappets ('88) but not positive. That's been my concern about the zinc.

Bob
 
Excellent point Jeff. Alot of people are afraid to use "Diesel engine oil" in there gas motors. But, diesel oils have excellent additive packages, plus cleaners. Keep in mind though if an engine has alot of hours or has been subjected to a poor quality oil or lack of oil changes there will be a lot of sludge, crud ect. in the engine. The diesel oil will help clean this out of the engine. So changing filters often until the engine starts to clean up is a must when switching to this type of oil.
 
Gen SIX BBC started the factory roller lifters in the mid 90's. Both 454 and 502's were available in Gen Six. http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87779

I wiped a cam lobe a few years ago; since then, I've been using either non-API oil or ZDDP additive. A HDEO (diesel oil) or certain Amsoils, likely others have good zinc content still.

Last I looked the Pensoil Marine jugs were still on older, higher zinc, API ratings, too.
 
Thanks for the responses, I think I will switch the the Rotella T triple protection which they apparently now make in a straight 30W. What's the difference bertween the Rotella that says diesel on it and the Rotella T triple protection?

Anyone know if a 1988 Crusader 454 would have flat or roller?

Would I be better to switch to a 15W30 or 15W40? Also what is the consensus on switching to a mutiviscosity oil if have been using straight 30W? Think I will stay with the straight 30 b/c hate to "fix it if aint broke", but curious.
 
So I contacted both Crusader and Shell and here are their repsonses. Based on this I thinking about switching to the Rotella 15W40 from the straight 30W. Any potential downsides to this?

Crusader -

We do recommend 15w40 weight oil in all applications now. This is a heavy duty oil and is suited for your engine.

Shell -

All of our Rotella oils still contain ZDDP. The highest levels are in our multigrade oils, 10w-30,10w-40, 15w-40 and 5w-40 synthetic.
Regards,
Shell Technical
 
FWIW, I've had full synthetic multi-grade oil in my flat tappet big blocks for decades. Based on the complete rebuild at 3000+ hours, I would say there was "no harm" done at the cam/lifter interface from using the lowered zinc oils over the years.
 
I also believe that a multi-grade synthetic is best for our use. After years of straight 40, i'm now running 10w-40 synthetic. I would not advise using a non-synthetic multi-grade, due to the instability of the viscosity modifiers, however.
Note that Shell did not actually specify the quantity of ZDDP, only that their oils "contain ZDDP". Basically a non-statement, all mainstream oils contain SOME amount of ZDDP, the issue is the amounts are being reduced, by API designator. In spite of that, many folks are using HDEO (Rotella, Delo, etc) in gas marine engines successfully. That oil is very cost effective as well.
 
Very interesting discussion, and having wiped out a cam lobe, one I am invested in. I use Castrol 20W-50. Looks like it is not such a bad choice based on the discussion in the link below. Valvoline VR1 looks like another alternative with adequate zinc. And as Dave mentioned the diesel oils Rotella and Delo.

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm
 
I would say there was "no harm" done at the cam/lifter interface from using the lowered zinc oils over the years.
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well it was already broke in all those years ago with high levels of zddp

The Chevron Delo 400LE 15w-40 has a goodly amount of zinc, phosphorus and molybdenum.
zinc is around 1300, on the crappy low zinc oils it is around 800
The moly I like and the rotella does not have any moly.
 
well it was already broke in all those years ago with high levels of zddp
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- maybe on the original equipment. The rebuild, over a decade ago, got 30 minutes with quicksilver oil, then a filter and fresh oil. After 25 hours, the synthetic stuff when in. The basis for the "no harm" was the past decade, on the rebuilt engines.
 
zddplus.com has some neat tech articles on the subject; that said tehy have a vested interest in the conclusions one could reach.
 
it is only the last few years where they have been dropping zinc. When it gets to under 1000, then it is bad.
I have also wondered since the zinc saves the camshaft wiping surfaces, and the engine has other pressure surfaces if dropping the zinc will cause other wear problems such as piston to bore clearance increasing and engines developing piston slap quicker.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ame.aspx?zo=515729
good oil, I think.
 
So contacted Shell again and they said the Rotella triple protection 15w40 has 1200ppm of zddp.

Thinking though of going with Delo 400 15W40, but which one? Looks like they make and LE and a Multigrade version, mulri says is for pre 2007 motors. Anyone know the difference???
 
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/2441/delo-400-le-sae-15w-40-api-cj-4-tested,-ready-for-2010

I am using Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 CJ-4
the other one is a CI-4 oil, Delo 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 (CI-4 PLUS)
to find the difference, research ci-4 versus cj-4 standards
The Delo family contains a full line of engine oils, including Delo 400 LE SAE 15W-40 and 10W-30 (CJ-4), Delo 400 LE Synthetic SAE 5W-40 (CJ-4), Delo 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40 (CI-4 PLUS) and Delo 400 Synthetic 0W-30. Rounding out the complete line of Delo products are Delo Extended Life Coolant, Delo Extended Life Coolant/Antifreeze - Nitrite Free, Delo Greases EP, Delo Heavy Duty EP, Delo Synthetic Grease SF, Delo Synthetic Transmission Fluid SAE 50, Delo Gear Lubricants ESI and Chevron Delo Synthetic Gear.
Click to expand...
 
It looks to me as it has to do with diesel fuel sulfur concentrations.
http://www.apicj-4.org/faqs.html#6

7. Do API CJ-4 oils protect older engines if they are operated on 500 ppm maximum sulfur fuel?
Yes, API CJ-4 oils are designed to have performance benefits over API CI-4 and API CI-4 PLUS oils when using both 15 ppm and 500 ppm sulfur fuel, and qualification testing is conducted using both fuels. As a reminder, 2007 on-highway engines with advanced emissions systems must use ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel containing 15-ppm sulfur or less. In cases where older engines/vehicles are operated with 500 ppm sulfur fuel, API CJ-4 is designed to protect the engine better than API CI-4 and API CI-4 PLUS. As always, users should seek guidance from their engine or vehicle manufacturer regarding specific service recommendations.
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http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/557904-cj4-oil-information-vs-ch-and-ci4-oil-specs.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1546268

Keep in mind the real reason ZDDP (zinc phosphate compounds) is used in engine oil...this are the cheapest highly effective antiwear and antioxidant additives available. They work great and cost little. Other additives work as well or better but cost more. Reducing the ZDDP and adding borate, moly, and other compounds works great.
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Nice that DELO has moly and boron and zinc
 
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