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bf130 starting problem no fuel in vst high side, low side seems ok, both pumps seem ok.

S

swade

Contributing Member
Hi All, wondering is someone can confirm my suspicions.

First, it's been sitting about 4-5 months..mostly because i snapped two water jacket cover bolts and just got around to drilling them out last week (project boat was working on other stuff). Went out this morning, cranked right up on the hose 2-3 licks, idled perfect, warmed it up few minutes, gave it bit of gas. Eventually it sputtered and died.

Figuring bad gas from sitting I drained all that (initial fuel filter, drained the rail), put fresh gas from a can, pumped the bulb up. Still no go. pumped the bulb from the tank initially looked ok and nasty, cleared up and smelled better. I'm guessing old gas in the bulb, line (down to the anti siphon) and whatever was sitting in the engine, drained as much lines as i could and repumped from can with fresh gas.

I checked the low pressure pump, seems plenty of pressure coming off the line out of that (it built back up after draining and when i pull the hose there is definently pressure there). That line goes into the vst so i know the low pressure pressure side to there seems good.

NADA comes out the VST drain (recessed screw bottom right) nothing, maybe a drip. I hear the high pressure pump run when i kick the switch so I presume that is good....it's after the VST and pulling the fuel hose from the VST to the HP pump is empty. Also the fuel rail which is after that isn't pumping back up after draining.

So something is stuck in the vst? Can the float stick closed? I'm guessing what it ran off this morning initially is the gas left in the bowl, but couldn't get more as the float is stuck. Just wondering if my analysis seems ok....as i can't see it being anything else.

Thanks! shawn
 
Thanks mike for the opinion, i'll opener up and see what's up. I see it has tiny phillips screws on a brackish/salt water outboard =( this should be more fun...
 
Boom! that was it. Pulled it apart, the float moved but there was gunk on the needle and I couldn't blow through the intake port...so that made sense.

Soaked the part, then blew the gunk out of the port and she blows through freely now. Will get it together and see how she runs now, looked like that was the problem. Won't make that mistake
again letting it sit without following some procedures on that. The filter screen looks clean on the high side pump, and the filter seems ok so i'll put it together and run some fuel cleaner through.
Then to be safe will order new filters and replace those when they come in.

In reading up on this motor it looks like this one doesn't have the modified fuel system, the fuel line goes from inlet filter to low side pump to vst out to the high side pump, then filter then to the rail. I wonder if honda would cover that still on a 10 year old second hand motor or do you happen to know if the recall was only certain vins?

Thanks for the 2nd opinion!
 
Just in case anyone has a similar problem here's a few tips...

Troubleshot, make sure pressure on low side, make sure pressure on high side and you hear the electric pump at key switch after you drain the system. If voltage is low the electric pump will not cut on.
If you remove the drain on the VST gas should come out, if you do happen to pull the VST you can tell easily if the needle is stuck by turning over the vst back and forth...pretty easy to
hear the float move. In hindsight mine didn't move. The VST is held together by phillips and if it's 10 years old salt usage you'll likely round out the phillips heads, i used vice grips. One phillips by the bracket is a PITA to get out as you cant get a vice grip on it.

I drilled two of them, removed top cover, plenty of bolt to get vice grip on and get it out. VST is simple..just a box with a needle, float and seat just like a carb, 1 screw holds that together. In the shop manual is the specs to check the float height, and what to examine for needle and seat wear.When putting it back together I used stainless allen bolts, and greased the threads. I pulled the water cooling cover as well on the VST and cleaned that out too. Got it back together pumped up the system with fresh gas, after a start or two when things were pressurized she fired right up.
 
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Glad you found something obvious. Unfortunately, I do not think that Honda would cover the upgrade of your fuel system. There was, what Honda calls, a "product improvement" in 2002 that changed out the vst, hp fuel pump, hp fuel filter, fuel rail, and added an onboard water separator. Unless there was a commitment made at the time (and there was not with this one), they only cover actual "recalls" that are that old....those changes that Honda considers a safety related issue. The current list of "recalls" can be found on Honda's web site... http://marine.honda.com/owners/recalls.

If you want to change it out yourself in the future, the part number for the kit is 06167-ZW5-305. It runs about $380 and takes about 2 hours to do, if you have not done one before.

Mike
 
Hi mike, that's not too bad considering the cost of replacing this older hp fuel pump alone, sounds like that's included.This one seems ok, does have a bit of surface corrosion on the body around the electrical connectors but when i pulled everything off the VST looked just to be superficial stuff I can clean and protect. I was considering refreshing the fuel pump on it due to reading about that and it's age and add a water separator but then i saw the price of the pump alone =P, it and the starter are the only things that don't look clean.

Will the motor run at all if the hp pump goes out? I'm def going to add a h20 sep before i hook it back up to the tank.

Unfortunately I noticed the other night they don't list 130 recalls anymore, guess I'll call them next week, I'm just curious if there's any major stuff i should be aware of even if I DIY. I ran across a post on another board about the early 130 block cracks:

From a HondaDude 2003 post about the serial numbers recalled for the bad casting.
BF115: BZBD 1000001 - 1200270
BZBG 1000001 - 1200000
BF130: BZBE 1000001 - 1201321
BZBH 1000001 - 1200180

Is that the engine serial number that is on the valve cover or the product identification on the frame mount? I could have sworn I checked this before and I was out
of the range of that now i'm wondering if i did that wrong.
 
Last question first. The serial number is the one on the frame for the crack in the block or head. If you are in this catagory, there is a 10 year warranty on the defect if it happens.

If the HP pump goes out, the motor stops.

Other than the block/head issue and Fuel pump change (BZBE-1000000-1599999 and BZBH-1000000-1599999 )
...the Main Power Relays have had issues. The power relay was an issue with serial numbers BZBE-1000001 ~ 1302747. Although they have failed for some outside that range.

Adding a water/fuel separator is good. Water was the cause of the fuel pump to fail. That is one reason it would fail.

Mike
 
Sorry mike I must have been replying at the time time. Oh well not sure what i got wrong there, bzbe1003733 is certainly in the range. Guess nothing much to be too worried about, hour meter was at 250 (no telling how accurate that is), has sat for 5 months and not a whif of smoke on startup (my neighbor with twins new honda's only couple years old kills the mosquitos when he cranks those up..must be leaky valves). Seems from reading the net there are plenty of people in this serial range with tons of hours and no problems.
 
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Now I'm wondering if this block head thing is something I should call to get a service date or inspected? There's nothing on the motor or under the cover to indicate it's been done. Honestly seems a bit nuts to call honda on a what 10-11 year old motor....I can't imagine any of these recalls are still valid. I was just going to pickup the parts
if there was anything I was concerned with and DIY it. Except for the block the other's don't seem too major and it's nothing I'd bother a dealer with. When I pulled the water jackets covers I didn't notice anything I'd consider out of wack for a 10 year old motor that's been used in brackish and salt water, i was surprised there was as little deposits as there was, sure the factory corrosion protection was bubbled up a good bit under there but that's not to be unexpected at this age.

Just curious of your opinion on that.
 
I called honda and gave them the product id, they said the motor was bought in 1999 and there are no recalls on it.
So i guess both the fuel, main relay are product improvements..not really worried about those, and even if there was any head/block issues i'd be out of the
10 year range....I don't think there's any issues there, compression is within specs (199-228) testing per the manual, 215,215,220,215
and no signs of anything unusual though i haven't ran the boat and motor really.
 
If the cracks have not developed by now, you probably do not have to worry. It will show up generally with poor running. One or two of the cylinders will get water in them and the engine will only run on 2 or 3 cylinders. You will know when that happens...easy to find just looking at the spark plugs. You will see the water.

Anyway....do not worry about it now. Just take it out and enjoy...

Mike
 
Thanks for the info and help! In working on the vst,etc I noticed these two mystery connections, looking at the shop manual I can't find these anywhere, I think I see them in some of the drawings with nothing connected but not sure, it seems it's normal to have these loose ends but wondered if you'd seen it on other 130's and is normal and I'm not missing something. There's the t coming off the vst bottom, and in the back of the engine, some nipple that comes out with no hose attached which seem odd, I posted a pick here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32698314@N05/5156992470/

Thanks! shawn
 
They are both vents and should not have anything attached to them. They are fine the way they are. I think, officially the nipple on the T should be pointing down...but I would not worry about the way it is.

Mike
 
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