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HELP with Espar heaters

Hi there. When you say intake silencer, do you mean combustion, or cold air( opposite end from hot end)? The combustion air muffler would not make the overheat breaker pop, just bad combustion. If it is the cold air intake,is it restricted? Or just dented on the outside? I can't tell you what the temp should be, as I haven't had to measure one in like 10 years, but it sounds about right. Try taking off all the ducting, and try running it. If it now runs, take a real close look at all ducting, in, and output. If it draws air through any type of grill, or mesh make sure it is dust free. If it still blows breaker with ducting disconnected then probably the overheat sensor is bad, on bottom of case near got end. It is in a rubber grommet. Pry it out, and check for dust buildup. Or blow air in the hole it came out of. Try again. If it still blows. Then the sensor might be bad. It should be open circuit. You might have to follow the leads to where you can put a meter in it. If it closes when no ducting us on, then it is bad. Try Roton in Vancouver they might have one. I've only replaced one in 18 years. If it does not close, but the breaker still pops, it is the breaker itself. Should be a three terminal breaker. You can still get the one for the d7l. Which should be the same one. If you disconnect the wires make sure you know which way they go back on! The breaker is not cheap about $150 can. Let me know how you make out. Or call me if you need more details.
 
Hello ... Much interesting reading on this subject.
Below is my D8Lc which I have owned for almost 2 years. It has worked great for that time until now.
When I turn my thermostat on, the fan turns on, and i assume the glow plug goes on. I then can hear the metering pump operating and I can see fuel flowing through the fuel line towards the unit. The unit fires up fine and produces heat for a short amount of time. Then there is a loud click and then the pump shuts off completely (normally I think it slows down). The fan continues to run for a while. more than a minute - maybe 2 or three , then the unit shuts off altogether.

I am a little confused as the instructions dont really describe what I have (at least to me)
I have the main unit with the fan and burner, etc.
I also have a grey box with a switch on it labeled 'motor' and diagnostic (it also has the power leads to the fuel pumps)
Then I also have the thermostat that has 4 wires to it and an integrated circuit board.


Anyhow i also have a video..
https://youtu.be/vfjfj0QU7BQ

The instructions describe a process to read the fault codes... I am confused by this as I don't know what cover to open up .
From the manual;
"Insert a strap between terminals 6 (yellow) and 4 (black &
white) on the back of the operating device for 0.5 to 5 sec.
Place a jumper to plug B between connection b9 (yellow) and
B 11 (black & while) on the control unit for 0.5 to 5 sec (see
wiring diagram).
To do this, unscrew the cover from the electronics box on the
heater and unclip the control umt from the holder. The green
PIlot light on the operating device flashes and emits diagnostic
Signals Uisted on page 5)."

Well, i know what a jumper is, but what is a 'strap'?
What is an operating device? Is that a thermostat? or that grey box with the switch?
Anyhow, I am a boiler technician so I find this process rather amusing since it is for myself- not for a customer and i have no idea what the heck I am doing.

If I had to guess, i would say flame sensor is crudded up or in need of replacement or i am high limiting out and the unit is just doing a safety shutdown... But i would like to have a better idea before i start dismantling things.
I would also like to know what that box is with the switch labeled 'diagnostic'. It seems like it could be helpful in my 'diagnosis' (or not).

Thanks
Scott
 
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Hello. The comment about the air bubbles in the fuel is valid, but tiny round carbonation like bubbles are normal, rectangular or square blocks are not. Good idea to check filter anyways. Remove suction spigot. Do not touch output end of pump!!!! The filter is in the orifice behind the spigot. Like a thimble pushed inside. S/s metal mesh. Tap out fuel and shine light in. If mesh is clear. Good. If cruddy then look for the plastic flange. It goes almost out to the threads, but not quite. You can pry under the outer rim with an olfactory knife. Do not damage plastic ad it is the gasket for the spigot. You can back flush the filter with high pressure water. Finger over end of garden hose. The heater sounds like it had a bad flame sensor. If the pump is clean. Then that is probably the case, but it could also diagnose bad motor, or.... but in most cases with the Suttons and timing it is the flame sensor. It is probably not crudded up as it is not in the chamber. It sits on the outside like a puck. If you remove the big square cover on top of the heater, you will see two leads coming out of a 1" rubber grommet. On is for the motor, and the two pin is the flame sensor. Unplug flame sensor. It should be between 900 and 1100 ohm when at or around room temp. If it is way out the replace sensor. If it is in spec. It could still be bad. Reading ok cold but not changing resistence when hot. As far as the diag notice switch, I would assume that it sends a flash code to the green led. Is your fourth lead in the thermostat on 4 or 6? If so then that switch should. Make it flash. Send me an email to [email protected] and I will send you the manual. Or follow the other fellows link to Espar of Michigan.
 
Brian silk said:
Hello. The comment about the air bubbles in the fuel is valid, but tiny round carbonation like bubbles are normal, rectangular or square blocks are not. Good idea to check filter anyways. Remove suction spigot. Do not touch output end of pump!!!! The filter is in the orifice behind the spigot. Like a thimble pushed inside. S/s metal mesh. Tap out fuel and shine light in. If mesh is clear. Good. If cruddy then look for the plastic flange. It goes almost out to the threads, but not quite. You can pry under the outer rim with an olfactory knife. Do not damage plastic ad it is the gasket for the spigot. You can back flush the filter with high pressure water. Finger over end of garden hose. The heater sounds like it had a bad flame sensor. If the pump is clean. Then that is probably the case, but it could also diagnose bad motor, or.... but in most cases with the Suttons and timing it is the flame sensor. It is probably not crudded up as it is not in the chamber. It sits on the outside like a puck. If you remove the big square cover on top of the heater, you will see two leads coming out of a 1" rubber grommet. On is for the motor, and the two pin is the flame sensor. Unplug flame sensor. It should be between 900 and 1100 ohm when at or around room temp. If it is way out the replace sensor. If it is in spec. It could still be bad. Reading ok cold but not changing resistence when hot. As far as the diag notice switch, I would assume that it sends a flash code to the green led. Is your fourth lead in the thermostat on 4 or 6? If so then that switch should. Make it flash. Send me an email to [email protected] and I will send you the manual. Or follow the other fellows link to Espar of Michigan.
Click to expand...

Brian,
the bubbles are tiny round carbonization type bubbles... I can see them moving towards the heater in time to the clicking of the metering pump. the assist pump is connected directly to a well maintained 2 micron Racor. I dont think fuel flow is an issue (yet). Which pump should I be checking for a fouled strainer- the metering pump or the assist pump? I will check the resistance of the flame sensor as well. I will also check to see if the switch sends a diagnostic code to the thermostat.. (two person job as they aren't even close to each other)
I do have the instructions for the unit i downloaded, , but maybe it is not the correct one. That box with the diagnostics switch is not listed as a part but the rest of it is.

Is a control unit the thermostat?
What is a sutton?
Should I get the flame sensor from you or order it elsewhere?

Thanks again for your help. You need a gofundme account.

Scott
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
Are you getting good air flow out the exhaust and is the combustion air intake clear? Being a HVAC tech sounds like a air flow issue to me possible restriction in the combustion air. I would also like to eliminate the air bubbles in the fuel it could be a restriction in the fuel supply causing the fuel pump to labor. Is there a shut off valve not all the way open?
Click to expand...

Ahh,
I see the combustion air inlet... No visible restrictions there or on the exhaust. No more or less than I am used to seeing/hearing/feeling on the exhaust when it normally runs. The pump is moving fuel fine from what I can tell, it just stops pumping after a certain amount of time. All valves are open. The heater was working well a few weeks ago.
 
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The filter is in the small Espar fuel metering pump. It would no doubt be clean as a whistle as you have a 2 micron filter before it. Won't be one in the assist or primary pump. The other fellows comment about the combustion air is null as there is no combustion air intake hose. The solenoid is the intake. That clunk is the solenoid. Yes. Normal if it shuts down. The ducting comments would be applicable if the heater was running longer and had a chance to overheat. But I think you are shutting down on the start phase. If you are unsurev,tgen remove all ducting and try starting. If it stays running it is an air flow issue. Check the intake screen where the heater gets its cold air. I don't know what a "sutton" is. Where do you see that.
The room control is the thermostat. The control " box" us the brain box inside the square box on top of the heater. The diagnostic grey box thing is not Espar but installed by the installation company. Looks like something Boat Electric in Seattle would do.
You can get it from me, but Roton, the distributor will be more efficient. I'm a one man operation and am out of my shop every day for the next three weeks installing and servicing. They have staff and can shop to you. They will probably have to order it in.
Usually ,after five registered failed starts, the control unit will lock out the furnace and it will just go dead. I suspect that the diag switch on that grey box will perform the unlock. If it does not, you can do it manually on the black plug on the bottom of the control unit. The pins are marked with #s on the black plug housing. Just jump pins 9 and 11 and turn on the thermostat with the jumper in place. This unlocks five successive failed starts, or overheats. It will also call up diagnostic flash codes not normally Sent to the green led. You can test to see if that switch works by disconnecting the fuel pump leads(fuel metering pump) and starting the heater the green light should flash every. 5 seconds or so. If not, try hitting he diagnostic switch and see if it then outputs the flash. I would put my money on flame sensor as it sounds like your fuel is fine, and also sounds like it is igniting. No excessive exhaust smoke outside?, just the usual? If you get the jet sound out the exhaust it is igniting fine
 
Appreciate your input. I have been working on only this brand of furnace for 18 years. I do the service for most of the marine installations in Bc. Hundreds of units. I have personally installed about 350 Espars and do the dealer support for all of BC. Not blowing my horn, but I know these inside out. I can see from the install that is was probablydone by Boat Electric in Seattle Washington. They are probably the best in North America. They always upped the ducting to 5" from the required 4 inches. Running 6 to 7 " ducting is great in a hose or commercial where you have another of room, but on a boat. Good luck! Unless it's over 60 ft and the builder was thinking of the heater install when it was built. Almost never the case. I tell you boats are an exercise in compromise.
 
Brian;

I have a newly installed (10/15) Espar L-II Hydronic 16 in a Beneteau 461 that I am having issues with.

Since day one we have had a high number of "3 short flash" ("flame loss" fault code 54 from my code sheet) errors that cause the furnace to shut down. The "flame out" is often accompanied by a cloud of white smoke from the exhaust. We also experience this white smoke discharge occasionally without a "flame out".

As of today we are completely unable to get the furnace to stay running for more than a few (30 at most) seconds. The furnace comes on, there is a "white" smoke discharge from the exhaust which may or may not clear up, then the furnace "flames-out" usually with a discharge of white smoke.

I have replaced the fuel oil filter but I am at a loss for what exactly is going on. Common sense tells me that the fuel delivery exceeds what the unit is able to burn, so my next thought is that it needs more air? I am also now seeing in the manual that the heater is NOT designed to work with biodiesel fuels; unfortunately we can only get B20 where we are. Is that the problem? It can't be that simple!
 
Now to add insult to injury... after taking off the burner and throughly cleaning the soot and unburned diesel from it, I had misaligned the cover when the unit was switched on (long story) and caused the fan cone to jam into the cover. After correcting the issue, the "mobile comfort" control panel will light for the "master" switch, but the "furnace" switch just glows faintly and the unit is not starting up at all... I hope this is a simple fix.
 
Actually. It could be that simple. If it is not rated for biodiesel, then it is supposed to run on regular diesel. Try running it on regular diesel as a test. , but too late now. I would contact espar Canada or a local dealer. As it is now getting a little complicated to solve by email. But I'm sure the 54 code is very likely a result of the biodiesel. Sorry that's as far as I can go here.
 
I have an older D5LC that is working fine, but I am trying to hook up a household style thermostat to it. It currently has a 301 00 154 standard rotary controller on it. I have seen that I can control if the unit is on or off by controlling the yellow wire going to the controller (with everything else wired as standard), but I am pretty sure it is still using the internal sensor, and I can't control the output level (low, medium, high). I have found a wire diagram on the service manual, but have not seen anything that is more like a proper schematic.

My end goal would be to replace the factory controller with a panel with a on/off switch, a second switch I can control fan speed (I think by sending a particular resistance value back to the ECU?) and then the relay from my digital thermostat, which is a Carel IR32

It sounds like you have wired systems up like this before from reading the thread in here, is what I am doing possible and can you shed light on how I would actually make it happen?

Cheers!
 
Yes. We do it when the heater is oversized and runs on low too much. The only neg. Is glow plug won't last as long, but not badly. Send me an email to [email protected]. I'll try and find the resistor diagram. Two resistors are needed and then you use the red and yellow wires as you say. I use the honeywell pro 1000, or 2000 thermostat. If you can post the diagram on here if you like.
 
I have an older D4 Air unit and was wondering if there is an exhaust muffler or silencer available to cut down the "jet engine" noise?. Mine is installed in a relatively compact area and was also wondering the actual size that it is, (assuming there is one.) Also, wondering if it really does cut down the noise and if it is worth it? Comments anyone?
 
I'm just going to bed after a long day at the boat show here. I'll give you the long positive response when I get a break at the show tomorrow.
 
Good morning. The link you have is for a truck muffler. It cannot be used in a boat. It is just spot welded not sealed. You need the 30 mm flexible muffler. P# 25 1226 89 58 00. It is 30 mm id and 5' long. The muffler body is about 22 inches of the length, and about 2.25" in diameter on the muffler body. It is flexible made out of the same material as the s/s double walled exhaust. I put them in all my installs other than water taxis, noise not an issue. It works great. They retail for $290. Can.
Roton in Vancouver also has a 30 mm in line welded s/s one that can be spliced into existing exhaust. It is heavy so it needs to be supported..it is about 22" long. And about 2.25" in diameter. This one is $160 now. If you have an ancient d4l, not airtronic then it may havea 24mm od exhaust. Then you could get the truck one welded all the way around. But we will not do that for liability reasons
 
Hello, new here and looking for a little help. I installed a new d2 heater in my fishing boat and it works great in the driveway. I am using a easystartselect controller so the thermostat inside the unit is controlling. The unit is mounted under a hardtop and is mostly protected from outside wind. While underway, there is too great of a flux in the air intake temp and it caused the unit to speed up and shut down. only to restart minutes later. I would like to add a remote temp sensor, or change the controller to one that can set a certain heat output level.

What would you recommend?
 
No sure. But your symptoms don't match a thermostat issue. If the air intake is cold it should be running on high. I would get the digi- max . It has a temp sensor in it.also diagnostics which would tell you why it shut down.let me know what the diagnostics are
.
 
Brian silk said:
No sure. But your symptoms don't match a thermostat issue. If the air intake is cold it should be running on high. I would get the digi- max . It has a temp sensor in it.also diagnostics which would tell you why it shut down.let me know what the diagnostics are
.
Click to expand...

I guess i need to clarify my problem. The heater is working as designed. I have the heater mounted in the pilot house on a fishing boat and the controller is is in the cuddy cabin. It's operation becomes erratic when the air intake area is exposed to cold fresh air as I am using cockpit air for the intake.

I am quite certain the solution is to get a temp sensor in the cuddy where it will be less exposed to the cockpit curtain opening and closing as we fish. Brian, you suggest a digi-max controller. Do you have specific model number you suggest? Looking at the literature, the 801 controller has a visible temp sensor while the digimax 1000 does not appear to have this.

Thanks, Tom
 
Can you put a wye on both the supply (hot out) and return (air in) so you actually circulating air in the cabin where the thermostat is? You can also damper down the air in the cockpit so you can put the heat where you use it most.
 
Hi Brian. I have an older model (2000-ish) Espar D2 heater. Recently, the thermostat is getting lazy, as it seems to let the temperature in the boat drop well below it's setting before kicking in, and the same on the top end - it lets the heater run the boat's temperature well above it's setting before shutting down. Is the thermostat the problem, and if so, does it need cleaning? Replacing? Thanx for your help. Jim
 
Thanks. But the solution is to have the sensor where the heat is being delivered. The internal sensor only works on small systems like truck sleepers.
 
Jimmy047 said:
I will get back to you on the thermostat type next week, after my next trip to the boat. Hopefully there's a model number on it somewhere. Jim.
Click to expand...
Hi Brian....
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Hi Brian.... Apologies for junking up your thread, but here's two pix of the front and guts of the unit. Only writing is inside, which says "OBEN" and "type 15015". Does this give you enough to go on? It lets the cabin get too cold before starting the heater, then lets it get too hot before shutting off. ThanX for any assistance you can give. Jim.
 
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