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1990 454 cid (FWC)-Starting Procedures?

nightstalker

Regular Contributor
My owners manual says to pump the trottles twice and return them to idle before starting the engines. When I follow this procedure, it takes three or four attempts to fire up the engines when cold. It doesn't seem to matter if I pump more or less or idle up a little. Batteries are good. Any ideas?
Nightstalker
 
My owners manual says to pump the trottles twice and return them to idle before starting the engines. When I follow this procedure, it takes three or four attempts to fire up the engines when cold. It doesn't seem to matter if I pump more or less or idle up a little. Batteries are good. Any ideas?
Nightstalker

I guess the logical question with which to answer your question:) is.........when was the last time you had a real good tune-up? And further........ Has this procedure been a problem since you have had the boat/engines?

If the batteries are fully charged then I would suspect either a fuel or electrical problem and given those two areas, I would think you should start with ensureing each of those two assets are working at peak performance.

Time to tinker:D
 
stalker,

It is very possible that after sitting for quite a while without having been used (if that is the case) that the fuel in the carburetor has either evaporated or drained out somehow and therefore is not getting pumped into the intake manifold to aid in a cold start. After the engine is cranked a few times the carb will fill with fuel and that is when you should pump the throttle a few times. Next time you go to start your cold engine, verify this by removing the flame arrester and then pump the throttle to see if gas is being sprayed into the venturi. If not, crank the engine for about 5 seconds and then pump the throtlle to see if fuel is now being sprayed.

Erich
 
This is routine for many other owners and I face the same thing if we do not run the boat within 5-7 days of the previous run. If I try to start it within 3-4 days, it starts as good as my Suburban...instantly. Seven days later, it will crank for 10 seconds, then I do the other side. Fastjeff has an electric fuel pump and momentary switch setup that is nice and on my list this winter. Do a search on this forum
 
I guess the logical question with which to answer your question:) is.........when was the last time you had a real good tune-up? And further........ Has this procedure been a problem since you have had the boat/engines?

If the batteries are fully charged then I would suspect either a fuel or electrical problem and given those two areas, I would think you should start with ensureing each of those two assets are working at peak performance.

Time to tinker:D
Engines tuned 40 hours ago. Always been a problem since I've owned her (6 months). I've checked out the electrical circuits as best I could, and all seems good. Use Star Tron regularly.
Nightstalker
 
This is routine for many other owners and I face the same thing if we do not run the boat within 5-7 days of the previous run. If I try to start it within 3-4 days, it starts as good as my Suburban...instantly. Seven days later, it will crank for 10 seconds, then I do the other side. Fastjeff has an electric fuel pump and momentary switch setup that is nice and on my list this winter. Do a search on this forum
Now that I think of it, she does fire up much quicker when they have only sit a few days. The difficulty with starting comes when she sits a week or longer. As you indicated, that might be the nature of the boast. I never crank her for more than 5 seconds, maybe thats a problem also. I may need to crank um for 10 seconds or so after she sits for a while.
Thanks Nightstalker
 
Arguments exist on both sides of the issue...Starter wear, etc.... Mine have behaved the EXACT same way as you describe for 4 seasons that we have owned this boat. Example: We went fishing Saturday... I was on the boat Tuesday doing a few things and I did start it, HAD NOT been started in 3 weeks and it took about 5 separate cranking sessions, pumping the throttles full swing during each session. Once she started and threw off the cob webs, it was fine ...Saturday she started within several seconds of the first crank. Jeff's setup with that momentary fuel build up pump works.
 
OK...so from the discussion above can we conclude that it is probably a lack of fuel at the carb after sitting for a while?? If that is a problem, other than Jeff's pump idea fixing it, did the any 'tech' documents ever come out advising owners that this will happen in a certain era of the 454s or is this a pure carburator problem? The reason I am curious is that if I move to a bigger engines, will I have this problem, again, in a certain era of engine manufacturer?
 
My 1995 454XL's behave the same way. I hate it, but short of Jeff's pump or EFI, what else is there? What about throttle body injection retro fit?????
 
I don't believe it is an engine issue but rather a carb issue, at least with the Rochester Quadrajets. I don't know if Edelbrocks, Holleys, etc, behave the same.

Erich
 
I don't believe it is an engine issue but rather a carb issue, at least with the Rochester Quadrajets. I don't know if Edelbrocks, Holleys, etc, behave the same.

Erich

Both my elelbrock 454's operate the same way; that is, after a week, expect some cranking, about 30 seconds worth max, 20 seconds nominal.
 
Don:

Never seen a service bulletin on the topic. It's not a problem with the carb'ed engines but more a by-product of the "new" recipe used to blend what is labeled "gasoline" nowadays. In other words, it is just a fact of life. If you have carbs and use "pump fuel", I'd expect the phenomena. Newer EFI systems don't have this issue.

Kevin: You can do it but I wouldn't consider it cost effective (either TBI or MPI) using new parts; used may be a different story. FastJeff's solution is the turnkey approach; the 'cheaper' solution is a squirt bottle to deliver a couple ounces of fresh fuel to the float bowl.
 
I can not find fastjeffs' thread on the electric fuel pump. I think I want to install them. I hate it when we leave a restaurant or other water front place, and the boat will not start right away.
 
I added and a small electric fuel pump (running off the gen-set feed) to fill the carbs. (Check valves at each carb prevent the mechanical pumps from forcing fuel backwards through the electric fuel pump.) This sytem works excellent, but I have to add a lighted toggle switch to prevent my stupidly leaving the pump running! Power for the electric pump comes off the bilge blower circuit.

Jeff
 
I had the opposite problem

The previous owner used to pump the throttles 3-4 times before starting. After rebuilding the carbs, full tune-up, etc., it took me a few times to realize I didn't need to touch the throttles. Just turn and go.

The easiest solution might be a shot of starting fluid as you get ready. That's what I was doing until I realized I was actually flooding both engines. One short into the flame arrestor will do it.

Bob
 
kevin_z how long were you at the waterfront restaurant? A few days? A week? If you left the same day or the next day it should fire right up. If it doesn't something else is wrong.

If you are talking about a 5 to 7 day layover or more, here's a procedure that works for me. And yes my 454 Rochesters start hard after a week off.

1) Crank each engine for 10 seconds. (Fills up the carb bowl).
2) Pump the throttles (accelerator pump) 10-15 times on both sides.
3) Then crank again. Should fire right up.

Best wishes,

Tom
 
Makes sense, I'll try that method. And I was just following the old owners way. I will be at the boat tomorrow, 5 days since last start up. No pumping the throttle, I will just hit the start button. No start, pump the throttle. Stand by for updates.
 
Now I have easy starting every time, no more excessive wear on starters or embarrasing wondering if motors will ever start. Will work on any dual carb setup.

What I did to fix this
1.* Carter electric pump
2.* Holley regulator, regulator has one input and 2 outputs and adjustable from 1 to 4 PSI
3.* pressure gauge
4.* fuel splitter block tee, mine was aluminum and originally made for duel carb setups
5.* 2 anti siphon one way valves, OMC, brass,* same as tank anti siphon valves* (needed to keep engine fuel pumps from back feeding to other engine carb, not good if one engine is running and other is not to back feed fuel)
6.* marine cannister fuel filter, the one with 4 hookups on top, all you really need is some kind of fuel filter here in the line before the Carter electric pump.
7. assorted A1 rubber fuel line, brass fittings, clamps, etc...

attach regulator input directly to electric pump output and attach pressure gauge to one output side of regulator
other regulator output goes to fuel splitter tee
attach 2 anti siphon valves to fuel splitter tee outputs
rubber hose join regulator output to fuel splitter tee input

Run a fuel tank input into the marine filter (using a can filter allows easier electric pump priming of fuel from tank and pump only sees filtered fuel)

marine filter output to electric pump input
electric pump to the fuel tee splitter block with the anti siphon output valves on the output

Output of tee splitter with anti siphon valves goes to each carb fuel inlet
On the carb fuel inlet, you need to tee this to receive fuel from both original mechanical pump and electric pump.

For carb hookup, I took a 3/8 steel fuel nut (like off a metal fuel line) and tapped steel fuel nut hole to 1/8 plug fitting
epoxied outside threads on tapped nut and screwed into carb inlet fitting (the one that holds the filter, not the carb body itself, epoxy to ensure it wont come apart)
Got a special metal fitting that screws into the tapped nut. This is a special fitting with a 1/8 pipe thread on one side, and a 5/16 flare nut fitting on the other. The nut spins freely and nicely attaches to the 5/16 flare tee fitting that accepts fuel from mechanical pump line or carter electric pump line. It makes it very easy to remove for carb service. Hampton Rubber carries this for $5, Hydra Hose did not have that fitting. (Perhaps you can go from tubing nut reverse flare on carb to 5/16 flare with nut directly, I do not know.) Using the adapter makes it easy to align the tee and take apart later.

It might seem complex, but it is not. With this in place, I can safely pump fuel to both engines using one electric pump and keep the original mechanical pumps fully operational.
Alternatively, I could have used 2 electric pumps with 2 regulators and gauges, but that means doubling the costs. I could also get rid of mechanical pumps but I like them and consider my electric pump a carb priming backup system.

the special metal swivel adapter fitting was Aeroquip 2018-2-4S adapter SAE 37
their number is 757-722-9818 If you need more info on it.

also found it here
http://www.valleyhydraulic.com/JIC_Fittings.html

External Pipe / 37° Flare Swivel (JIC) Aeroquip # 2018-x-x-s
Parker # x-x-F6X-S

My hookup at the carb uses a 5/16 tee flare and my 2 rubber lines use the press on brass flare nut fitting. They are good for 40PSI, but I still used clamps. Doing it this way makes things easy to take apart and put together. Most of the other attachments I used simple brass hose fittings and screw clamps.
 
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yes I like it too.
PLEASE use a regulator on the electric pump line. If you depend on the internal non adjustable regulator built into that pump, it might FAIL and pump very high pressure fuel into the carbs. This will flood the motors and fill them up to the top with gasoline, now you have a bomb ready to burn the boat and you. The Carter pumps use an internal rubber valve spring loaded regulator which might swell up and stick shut. I know because one failed on me and I cut it open to look. The Holley pumps use a metal pin and spring which is better, BUT, they use a rubber pump housing seal which swells up in ethanol laced gas and the pump housing is at the bottom. If their is water in the gas, then when they sit, they can rust shut and the motor wont turn. Or the metal pin regulator could rust and stick and the pump wont be regulated. Carter has never rusted on me since pump housing is at the top of the pump.

One improvement to this would be to use a different regulator. Instead of a dead head regulator, use a bypass regulator which recirculates fuel back to the tank. Holley makes one and it looks the same but is different internally.
This would have an advantage of keeping the fuel cooler and it might help to clean the tank. But this is a PROBLEM if you have twin tanks, you could pump one dry and the other to overflowing. Think through anything involving explosive fuels very carefully before you do it on the boat.
 
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