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Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1

    Default 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Supid me! Didn’t try starting engine for 4/5 months and froze up on me. Last time I ran it at idle, in the dock, it was rough and hot warning came on so I shut her down. Have engine in tilt-up position (not completely horizontal, still angled slightly downward)) and poured lots of WD-40 in each cylinder but as I did so 3 of cylinders filled up as I would expect, but 3 didn’t, instead most of the WD-40 was running through engine and coming out down near bottom of lower unit, so I couldn’t fill those three? Assume this is normal?

    Also, noticed the starting motor gear is still engaged with the flywheel I guess from when I tried to kick her over and realized I had a problem. How can I disengage it? Assume I need to disengage it in order to be able to, hopefully, work the flywheel loose?

    thanks
    Bill

  2. #2

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Quote Originally Posted by wjob View Post
    Supid me! Didn’t try starting engine for 4/5 months and froze up on me. Last time I ran it at idle, in the dock, it was rough and hot warning came on so I shut her down. Have engine in tilt-up position (not completely horizontal, still angled slightly downward)) and poured lots of WD-40 in each cylinder but as I did so 3 of cylinders filled up as I would expect, but 3 didn’t, instead most of the WD-40 was running through engine and coming out down near bottom of lower unit, so I couldn’t fill those three? Assume this is normal?

    Also, noticed the starting motor gear is still engaged with the flywheel I guess from when I tried to kick her over and realized I had a problem. How can I disengage it? Assume I need to disengage it in order to be able to, hopefully, work the flywheel loose?

    thanks
    Bill

    Any body have any suggestions?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New Plymouth,Taranaki,New Zealand
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    loosen the starter holding bolts until the bendix gear disengages.take all the plugs out,and see if the motor turns[using socket on flywheel] with diesel sprayed down into the cylinders.if not,let them soak for a while

  4. #4

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Finally freed up engine by feeding it a lot of penetrant over several weeks and tenderly working it every couple of days while hitting my socket with a heavy hammer. It spins freely now when I hit the ignition.

    That's the good news! Ran compression check and 5 checked out ok but one, lower right when standing behind the engine looking forward, doesn't want to hold a reading? The gauge needle starts up but then quickly falls back to 0? The hole immediately above reading 115 psi.

    Thoughts/suggestions please.

    thanks
    Bill

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    slough ,berkshire uk
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    start it up and let it run for a while.
    then use a tin of powertune or equvalent, and then run engine agian.
    a sticky piston ring could be the problem.
    Make sure you put a drop of extra 2 stroke in the fuel as well while trying to get it freed up properly.

    once you have this engine back to normal, i would suggest you keep a good eye on the oil level.

    and after you stop engine, put some oil down the pistons to lube them up, while turning by hand.

    too many people drain the complete engine when putting it away by letting carbs run out of fuel, this
    is good for the carbs , but not so good for the pistons and rings as they get starved of lubrication.
    Also all the other bearings and surface are getting no lubrication !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Do you realy want an engine completely dry inside ?...NO

    so its realy best to drain carbs using the drain plugs on them, and also putting a drop of oil down the
    pistons to keep them free all winter.

    its not much of a problem to do, and will keep the bores nice and free


    phill

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,846

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    When carburetors run out of fuel at idle there is lots of oil on the internal parts !!!----------------Just too many " old wives tales out there "-----------------If motor was seized it is best to pull the head off for inspection.-----------------If you run this motor you risk complete failure.--------------Your motor may be in need of overhaul now.------When there is complete failure you will be looking for a new motor.!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    slough ,berkshire uk
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    When carburetors run out of fuel at idle there is lots of oil on the internal parts

    This is not correct, the internal parts of the two stroke motor rely on the fuel oil mix to lubricate the internals.
    when a motor runs dry, it runs dry.
    Ther lubricant is mixed in with the petrol and will not seperate for a good while if left.
    There is very little lubricant left in the crank case, this is not a wives tail.
    Ive come across plenty of rusty internals due to running untill the carbs are dry.
    Manufactures will not cover any warranty on an engine that has run dry to empty carbs or fuel injection system.
    This practise is ok if you are going to use a fogging oil or lubricate once empty of fuel.

    As for if motor was siezed you have to pull the head off, again not always the case, if the motor is now free then
    its not always the case to strip it down.
    As for complete failure ? there is not going to be much price difference in a complete overhaul and a semie complete one.
    if the motor would end up needing a piston, then while down it would make economical sense to completely recondition.
    running a engine that was only semi siezed will not always cause a complete engine failure, the worst it would be is rings.
    Now to check ring a compression test is about the best thing next to complete strip down, powertune to free a sticky ring
    is well worth a try, if the compression comes back it will be fine.

    im not a dealer who wants your money, but ive worked on many engines from 1/2hp to 1200hp both petrol and diesel.
    Many years ago most engines would at some point in their life suffer with sticky rings if left a couple of months.
    carbon if left very dry for a few months can be very stubborn and often causes rings to stick.

    if the engine needs a complete strip and complete overall , it will cost a lot more than its worth.But you end up
    with an engine as good as brand new if the work is done correctly.


    phill

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,846

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Absolutely wrong about a 2 stroke being dry of oil when it runs out of fuel !!!!!!

  9. #9

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Getting back to working on my engine. After sitting for a year, without trying to start it, took another set of compression readings. Looking forward from behind the engine, the readings were 90 to 105 lbs except on the bottom holes on each bank, the one on the right was 65 and the left one was 75. After putting a lttle oil in the 65 lb hole it jumped up and held 90.

    Cleaned the carbs and have good fuel flow to the carbs, squirting gas and/or starter fluid into the carbs gets it started for a few seconds, then it quits. When I cleaned the carbs forgot to remove the Pilot Screw and Pilot Jet, thus not cleaning them, on the second side of each carb. When I realized this omission allready had the carbs back on the engine and hoped this would not prevent it from starting? Did notice after trying to start it, after pulling those two bottom plugs, that the one from the 65 lb hole showed some moisture on the working end of the plug, the other one showed just a trace of moisture, the top two on either side were dry.

    When I put my thumb over each open hole and turn the engine by hand can feel good pressure on the top two on each side and slightly less on the bottom two.

    Suggestions please. Should the engine start based on this info?

    thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    slough ,berkshire uk
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    First of all, are you doing a compression test while fuel is entering the engine as per normal ?
    If no fuel is getting through you WILL get false readings and the bores could get scratched/scored.
    Have you tried something like powertune or deep creep to free up any gum in the piston rings ?
    Do make sure your using good clean fresh fuel and that you have good plugs of correct gap and type.
    It sounds like your carbs need a proper clean, use good carb cleaner and compressed air.
    Take every single thing out of the carb possible, and see if their are any plugs that can be removed to gain even more access to the cavities and voids of the carbs.
    if removing any jets or air screws, make a note of how many turns etc on each carb jet, and keep the same jets/screws for each carb seperate while cleaning.


    Now I dont know where people like racer one are getting their info about running dry of fuel being ok for the internals.
    Just look at how the engine works, and what lubricant is used.
    Now first of when an engine is just on the point of running dry it will speed up a bit as its running leaner than normal.
    With a 2 stroke the entire crank area will be scavenged of the fuel oil mix by the final few up strokes of the piston ny
    means of pure suction.
    The fuel oil mix does not seperate in the combustion are or in the crank are of the engine, it stays a mixed fuel /lubricant.
    This is exactly what 2 stroke oil is meant to do, its not meant to leave anything behind, it stays with the petrol all the way from carb to fire/exhaust, if it dont then its not doing what is says on the tin.
    I have had a few of my very own engines rust up due to not lubricating the internals after running dry.
    2 stroke oil fuel mix is not now or ever been a good rust preventative and was never meant to be.
    The whole idea of fogging oil and winter lubricant is exactly what is needed to stop corrosion of the internals.
    ANY Good engine technician who has a good idea about fuels will also tell you the same.
    Petrol and 2 stroke mix when used in a 2 stroke engine and running the engine completely dry untill it stops,is starving the big ends, small ends,wrist pin, and crankshaft journals of their fuel oil mix (lubricant). The internals will form rust over a short period of say 3 months as the slightest micoscopic drop of fuel oil mix will evaporate leqaving the internals to the moisture thats left.
    Now at this very moment im doing some work on 2 v8 detroit diesels of 760hp each, the fuel has diesel bug ,although a different subject, it again causes contamination and rust on every surface due to amount of water in fuel.
    water in fuel is also very common in petrol nowdays, and again if you let even a diesel pump run dry you risk corrosion and rust.
    Inhibitors are used by any good marine engineer over the winter period to try and stop any corrosion.
    The very same type of inhibitors are used in petrol 2 strokes.
    Its not rocket science, just plain sense that the fuel oil mix will not lubricate if its not there.

    Now also on the 2 stroke engines, i also race small radio control boats, i can show you results of engines run dry of fuel.
    completely rusted to pont of so corroded they break up the crankshaft.

    Do yourself and your engines a very big favour and use a good oil for after run, it will save a fortune in the long run and keep the engine internals lubricated when stored up for winter or long periods.




    phill

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,846

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Obviously the " process of lubrication " on a 2 stroke is not well understood.------------------Nothing wrong with running 2 stroke engines out of fuel to keep the carburetors from gumming up.

  12. #12

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Appreciate the advice! Did the compression check before I tried starting the engine and before I pulled the carbs, assuming gas was reaching the carbs as I verified it was later. Haven't tried Power Tune or Deep Creep. What's best way to get it into the system, spray it in each plug hole or into the carbs? When I did the carb cleaning I did use a good carb cleaner plus compressed air, but as I pointed out, I overlooked doing the Pilot Screw and Pilot Jet on one side of each carb set. Is it likely that this is why it won't stay running?
    It seems to want to start better when I use a starter fluid spray vs a gas/oil spray, but in neither case will it go for more than afew seconds?

    Based on the background that is in my past posts, I've had several pretty savy engine people tell me I'm wasting my time trying to start it without first tearing down the power head? I hate to do this until I know for sure that I need to, especially when it tries to start?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
    Posts
    9,846

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    I can not see or feel the motor ------but---------about the only way that a motor locks up in 4/5 months is due to water leaking inside.----------A blown head gasket ( poor compression ) would leak water into the cylinders.---------Then when the motor is tilted it leaks to the internal bearings.----------That is death for a motor .----------------I would at least pull the cylinderhead/s to have a look.--------------The motor may run . but that is no indication of motor condition.

  14. #14

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Can I pull the cylinder heads without first removing the whole power head? Somebody mentioned pulling some part off, not the cylinder heads, that would enable me to get a pretty good view of each cylinder?

  15. #15

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    "Can I pull the cylinder heads without first removing the whole power head? Somebody mentioned pulling some part off, not the cylinder heads, that would enable me to get a pretty good view of each cylinder?"

    Can someone please answer the above?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
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    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Sure you can !!!------------Go to -------------brownspoint marine -----------------they have all the parts exploded views and that should make decisions easy.

  17. #17

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Can someone please answer the following?

    Any way to get a look/partial look inside those cylinders by removing some part (like exhaust plate) before pulling the heads?

    The fact that I forgot to clean the Pilot Screw and Pilot Jet on each of the three carb sets (only cleaned one side of each), when I cleaned the carbs, could be causing the no start?

    Understand that once the engine runs for a few seconds on starter fluid/gas spray, then quits, indicates a fuel problem? I've pulled the hoses that go into the carbs and turned the engine over and am getting good fuel delivery?

    I checked spark in one cylinder, it is a yellowish color, not blue, but I assume I am getting enough spark otherwise it wouldn't run for a few seconds, as it is doing?

    Trying to determine whether I'm wasting my time trying to get this devil to start?

    thankyou

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    ontario
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    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Sure go ahead and pull the exhaust covers.

  19. #19

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Quote Originally Posted by racerone View Post
    Sure go ahead and pull the exhaust covers.
    If I do this, will I be able to see the condition of the rings and the inside of the cylinders? What else might I be able to see?

    thanks

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
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    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    A little bit of the rings ----------A lot of one side of the piston when turning flywheel--------Maybe the intake side off cylinder wall,

  21. #21

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Thanks Racer. Please take a crack at the following.

    The fact that I forgot to clean the Pilot Screw and Pilot Jet on each of the three carb sets (only cleaned one side of each), when I cleaned the carbs, could be causing the no start?

    Understand that once the engine runs for a few seconds on starter fluid/gas spray, then quits, indicates a fuel problem? I've pulled the hoses that go into the carbs and turned the engine over and am getting good fuel delivery?

    I checked spark in one cylinder, it is a yellowish color, not blue, but I assume I am getting enough spark otherwise it wouldn't run for a few seconds, as it is doing?

    Based on the above,shouldn't I be able to start this devil?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
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    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    First explain to me how you went about -" cleaning the carburetors " --were they taken apart completely ???

  23. #23

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Quote Originally Posted by racerone View Post
    First explain to me how you went about -" cleaning the carburetors " --were they taken apart completely ???
    All jets and nozzles were removed, cleaned with carb spray and blown dry with compressed air. The only exception were the "Pilot Screw" and "Pilot Jet" (as labeled in the manual) on 3 of the carbs. Overlooked the fact that there is one set of these on each side of each carb set (2 carbs to a set). After removing the carb bowls and inspecting, determined it was not necessary to remove float and needle valves. So, they were taken completely apart with the noted exception.

    Will appreciate any thoughts? Thanks

  24. #24

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Originally Posted by racerone
    "First explain to me how you went about -" cleaning the carburetors " --were they taken apart completely ???"




    All jets and nozzles were removed, cleaned with carb spray and blown dry with compressed air. The only exception were the "Pilot Screw" and "Pilot Jet" (as labeled in the manual) on 3 of the carbs. Overlooked the fact that there is one set of these on each side of each carb set (2 carbs to a set). After removing the carb bowls and inspecting, determined it was not necessary to remove float and needle valves. So, they were taken completely apart with the noted exception.

    Will appreciate any thoughts? Thanks

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    ontario
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    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Will spark jump a gap of 7/16" on each plug wire ????----------------Also operate the manual fuel pump and then remove 1 of part # 14 on each carburetor and see if fuel pours out.

  26. #26

    Default Re: 87 Suzuki 150hp…frozen up?

    Quote Originally Posted by racerone View Post
    Will spark jump a gap of 7/16" on each plug wire ????----------------Also operate the manual fuel pump and then remove 1 of part # 14 on each carburetor and see if fuel pours out.
    Thanks for this. I'll check these out and let you know.

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