aq130/270 PDS Bearing maint...

Alright, after reading all the posts about PDS bearing failure, etc....not too mention RicardoMarines' very well voiced opinions about it, I am going to change them out on my boat.

I was wondering if someone might have done a write up on this job for the aq130C/270 drive?

Also, if anyone has all the part numbers for the bearings and seals that I will need for the job.

Any and all advice will be very welcomed!

Thanks

It's on here somewhere. Just look under PDS from Rick for an AQ 4cyl. They're all the same. Very easy, hardest part is getting ahold of the shaft to pull it. Some guys, me included, have a slide hammer with a visegrip welded on it to grab and pull. Works like a charm 95% of the time. Rick's going to chime in any minute and he'll point you to the post.

boatdoc55 said:

.......... Rick's going to chime in any minute and he'll point you to the post.

Click to expand...

Sheesh! This means that I'm obligated now!

Not sure where the old threads are.... but they are here somewhere.
I'm familiar with finding threads in the V-Bulletin format, but this one doesn't allow me to view my previous posts.
I know that Eduardo is good at this! Guess I need to learn!

Pull trans from Intermediate.
Watch for the shims!
Remove bellows completely.
Sacrifice the AFT-most seal, and get it out of your way.
You'll need a loooooong needle nose pliers with the tips modified to grab the eyelets of two expansion snap rings.
Once the two s/r's are removed, the shaft w/ bearing is free to come out..... baring no rust/corrosion.
Yes.... a large vice-grip usually does the job!

The Bearing is an open 6206 (no Chinese bearings...... )
Seals can be a Timken or TCM brand
FWD seal on this set up may be a 35x55x10mm... sometimes 8mm
AFT seal will be a 35x62x7mm
Buy these from a major bearing supplier and save some $$$.

IMO, one of the more important parts of the job is to pre-fill the grease cavity before installing the AFT seal.
High pressure bearing grease! (I don't use marine grease for these)
Bump the engine as you grease this... do it several times!
When you see grease come thru the ball cage, install seal!

Make sure that the AFT seal is installed in what would be considered a "non-conventional" direction..... (you should see the tension spring)

Determine your interval for future lubrication. Do this with the engine at idle so you get a good exchange.. new for old!

Sorry Rick, but you type faster and spell better than I!!!

Hee hee

I forgot to add that if the Flywheel Cover has the old grease cup, this can be converted to a Zirk fitting.

sweet. thanks guys... i'll start my search for parts tomorrow morning!

Rick, when you offered two size possibilities for the FWD seal, will either one fit, or should i buy both just in case?

Rick, would this bearing work?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/6206-Nachi-Open...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d287cf54b

Go for the 8mm seal. Either will work but the 10mm may conflict with the grease port... not sure on the older ones.

Bearing needs to be Electric Motor grade.
SKF or Koyo will get you there...... not sure about the Nachi "Deep Groove"!

mrdopes said:

Rick, would this bearing work?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/6206-Nachi-Open...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d287cf54b

Click to expand...

Never heard of one of these, info reads good.

there are a ton on 6206 bearings out there...

Which of these is the right one?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0V5TQ6GF8T15NCFR3VJP

http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-Single-Groove-Radial-Bearing/dp/B000MNC6C0

Boatdoc, you said that the info read good on that Nachi from japan... does that mean it would work, do u think?

So, I decided to pull the bellow on my port drive to check it out, and ooooooooohhhhhhhh boy.... It looked like someone took a chocolate milkshake and threw it in the bellows! so, with that being the case, i wonder what other seals and gaskets ill need to change.... the oil in that drive was water free though...guess that's a good sign.

I look back and i wonder why i sold my 19ft single drive and kept this twin drive boat....twice the expenses!

tomorrow I am going to head over to a local bearing place and see about the bearings and seals there... hopefully they have something on hand.

Ill take pictures and post them here while i am doing the job.... maybe someone else can use them for guidance one day.

Anyways, I wanted to thank you guys for the help, i appreciate it... if it wasn't for this site i never would did this and probably ended up with catastrophic failure down the road! I am all about preventative maintenance now!

The bearings I get from the local house are just run of the mill SKF or Koyo. They are not that much money and to switch after all these years would be hard. Just tell the house you want a standard ol' open 6206 bearing and be done with it.
You're going to have to break those uppers down and check the "blue seal" in behind the crosses. It seals up the "head washer" which is letting the oil in your bellows area. I'll bet you need the head washer and seal. They are not to spendy either.
Keep in touch & Rick and I will get you thru this

Mrdopes, I'm sure that I can speak for Gary as well..... we're here for ya!


A 6206 is a 6206 all day long, today, tomorrow and the next day! What will differ will be the grade or quality.
This is why I mention Electric Motor grade.... SKF, ZVL and Koyo are good ones!
Not Chinese.... or at least not low quality Chinese!
I do like their Pork fried rice and Egg Noodles, though!

If the 6206 is to be "sealed" or "screened", then the 6206 will have an extension to it (numeral and alpha characters).
Dimensionally, it's still a 6206!


This is from your first link.
Not sure what's up here, but the ID appears too small on this 6206C3 (could be the wrong image)



The 6206 should look like this one.... and yes, many are called Deep Groove!



Dimensionally, this may be the same.... but is definitely the wrong bearing!



What is it that is causing you to doubt the info here, and/or from simply purchasing a 6206 ?

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As for replacing your Bearing Crosses and main seal...... a few cautions for you:

Watch for the shims that will be under the transmission when you remove it. These are critical to go back as they were..... (assuming they have been installed correctly).

Apply Mapp or Propane torch heat to the main gear case where the thread inserts are for the four (4) bearing box clamping collar bolts. This will help expand and soften any corrosion so you DO NOT round out the socket head bolts.
BTW, these are NOT metric fasteners on this drive!

If the "Head Washer" (as Gary calls it)..... or what I'm calling the main "seal surface wear washer" is rusted..... there is something you must know. If replacing this, the bore dimension (where the shims lay) will be different. This means setting up and checking main drive gear bearing "rolling torque" when a new one is used.
If you can salvage this wear washer by polishing the seal lip surface, you may not have to re-shim (providing the rolling torque is OK).

It's all doable, and don't let the exploded views intimidate you.

.

the trans is free from the rest of the drive, but it is stuck at the u joint or something! Is there a trick to this, or should i just pull and pry?

im going go get some parts and take a break..... if i dont ill get pissed at this thing and tie a rope to it, hook the rope up to me truck and get it off that way!!!!

Lol.

Sorry to say but this is pretty common. Go ahead and cut the bellows off all the way so you have room to work. Now use your noggin and do what it takes to get it off without messing any major parts up. Try and get the seal down the U/J fork or cut it out of all the way also so you can get some penetrant down on the splines. Don't get in a big hurry and start screwing things up, it's your wallet. Turn the powerhead sideways and lay it on the inter housing. I put a towel between the two so you don't scratch everything up. Soak the front part of the shaft as good as you can, I like PB blaster but give it TIME. Set up a vibration, tap with hammer, let it work. Go away and come back. try it now, if it won't come use a drift of some sort on the U/J fork and drive it FURTHER onto the shaft, don't laugh it works. You can also smack the upper housing around some with a dead blow, plastic, hammer to maybe bring it back but don't hit the top cover and bend it all to heck.
Take your time and think about every move before you move, remember for every action there is a reaction and we want it to be positve.

It think one of the bigger issues is that I cant get the damn sleeve off of the shaft that is going into the inter housing... if i could get that down, i think that i could get the trans sideways....

Take the clips off of two bearing cross caps.
Try to seperate the U-joint shaft here!
It wil be easier to deal with it this way!

ummmmm..... ya....... i tried tapping the rings out with screwdriver, but no...... should i use needle nose pliers?

I have much respect for those of u in this line of work..... this aint no picnic.. i've been at this for 2 hours straight at least..... ill never complain about working on a car again.

would it be easier to just remove the whole drive so i can use the drive itself as leverage?

ok, so i got one clip off of 2 bearing cross caps, is there more than that? How do i get them to separate? I've beat on them with a socket, hammer, etc.... any tips here?

OK! so, the u joint trick worked! Got the tranny off the drive, now i need to get the u joints and shaft out! I also had a little booboo with the prybar before i did the u joint trick.... i broke a little bit off the lip that the bellows sits against the engine side...

my next question is how delicate do i have to be when pulling the u joint thing-a-ma-bob out? can i use a come-a-long to yank it out? Or do i have to keep doing what i've been doing for the last 5 hours and pry/pull at it?

It bellows will sit further back, so i am thinking that I can file the area down so it doesnt rub against the bellows, and hopefully that will work...like i said, the bellows clamps down further back then this area... i have pictures, i will try and post them...



Look at the milkshake below!!!!!


If u look closely u can see my booboo.... stupid prybar.....

Time for some heat and a slide hammer, you're almost there!!! This is also where you can drive the driveshaft forward some to break things free.

First of all, cover up that open Intermediate housing.

Ditto Gary's comment!

Gently drive the shaft FWD.... and then pull AFT again with a chain and weight of some sort...... then FWD again! Repeat!
Don't over do the force........ just keep at it gently.

If you ruin the drive shaft center section, so be it.
That is the least expensive of the three..... and nothing wrong with a good used one.

As for the broken bellows "snout"...... Guess you don't need to hear anything on that, eh? :rolleyes:
I have a hand full of good F/C's if you should want to replace this.

I stuffed a clean towel in the intermediate.

I also got my hands on 2 SKF bearings for a good price, about 10 bucks each, here in town... they were the last two they had.

The seals are a different story, NO ONE in town has those.... i'll try the next few towns over, the people that i have been talking to at these shops dont even want to order them for me because I only need 4 pieces....talking about minimum orders..... i dont suppose you guys have a website that you go through? or better yet a parts counter? lol.

Do u have a size for the blue seal in the upper? or is that a volvo product?

As for the u joints, should i go volvo direct, or is there a generic part number that i could use?

Also, as far as O rings and gaskets that i will need to reinstall the transmission, might you know them off the top of your head, or should I pull them off the volvo website?

Sorry for all the questions...dont get tired of me yet!

Im keeping good tabs on the shims.

A couple years ago, a buddy of mine that had a 'little' boat experience, and i mean a 'LITTLE', offered to do that blue seal and bearing in the uppers, as i had oil in the bellows, on the starboard drive for me.... he was aching to go to mechanic school and wanted to help.... he did the u joints and bellows on that drive too..wel, his heart was in the right place, but his tools never were....

He didnt do the PDS bearing or seals, as i recall.... i dont even remember buying new o-rings and gaskets for re-installation of the trans to the intermediate...

Then he stripped one of the bolts that go into the large pins that hold the drive in...as he pulled the whole drive off to do the bellows....

Im hoping he put the shims back in that drive the right way.... is there a way to know?

A few months later he screwed up a head job on a truck of mine and I decided i didnt really want to be a buddy of his anymore, as it was a pretty expensive friendship....

Im guessing when i do the PDS bearing on the other outdrive ill have to fix his screw-ups too...

Hopefully you guys can walk me through all that when i get there... all this talk of 'shims' and rolling torque is a new language to me.

I have work tomorrow, but will be back at this again Friday morning... Talk to ya soon...thanks guys!

Yes, do both drives for Peace of Mind!


With your drive shaft style, the Spicer 5-1306X is a good choice for Bearing Cross replacements. This one offers the lube fitting in the apex of the X.
No need to pay more for the OEM crosses, IMO. These are NOT manufactured by Volvo anyway!

Best to use OEM O-rigs.
You'll need 8 total for one drive if removing the trans ONLY:
2 for the bearing box, 1 for seal washer, 2 for trans, 1 for shift mech, 1 each dip stick and drain plug.
Watch for the shims inside of the seal surface washer!
The main drive gear seal can be Sierra 18-2040 or OEM 853670.

Not sure what a "blue" seal is.
The shift mech eccentric piston seal should be the green OEM double lip.
It is DIRECTIONAL...... so pay close attention to this!
Be sure to polish the brass seal surface....... 600 or better.
Best to also replace the spring pin that retains the detent pin!


The only method to determine if the transmission shimming is correct, is to go through the procedure again.
Over-shim it using a random amount of shims (you'll need to purchase more small value OEM shims).
With surfaces clean, O-rings NOT Installed, snug trans into position.

Take a feeler gauge reading at the gap between the two.
Take several or more readings!
Reduce shim value by an amount that will still give you a .003" bearing squeeze when the trans is bolted tightly into position (O-rings installed).

This brings the two cases to within ZERO, yet squeezes the bearing preventing it from rotating.

Don't simply take a guess at this. It is important that it be correct.
Likewise with the rolling torque for the main drive gear bearings if changing the seal washer/wear washer.
If you are not comfortable doing so, have it done by a pro!
And ONLY a PRO who is experienced with the AQ series drives.... or a mechanic with Hypoid Gear experience!

You may want to drop a magnet down the oil drain back tube and reach the screen. See if you find any metallic residue.

Have fun!

I use Precision 315G crosses or equal. The "blue seal" is the "seal surface wear washer", head washer seal. In the old days this seal was blue in color and the only one blue in the drive, thustly you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Gary, I've been doing these for twenty plus years..... never have I seen a blue main drive gear seal!
Green shift mech eccentric piston seal, YES!

Are you speaking about the ones with blue/green paint on the metal portion?

alright, so i got the oil seals, bearings, and u joints.

Now, i just need to keep on 'tap' 'tap' 'tap'ing away at the shaft to get it free from the rear of the engine... I hooked up a chain and 5 pound weight to it to pull at it with... it doesn't feel like it is doing much, i cant believe how stuck on there it is!

It's about 101 degrees outside right now, i wish i were in Oregon where you fellas are! This Ca heat is driving me nuts!

I also went out to the Volvo Marine Shop and tried to pick up the o rings and what not..... I hate going to those places!

The part guy was rushing the hell out of me, he wasn't even really taking his time to make sure he was giving me the right part numbers..... He kept telling me, "you need this".... and "you need that".... He was trying to give me seals for the intermediate and lower units..... i told him that I wasn't touching those, and he said i needed those seals, then, when I asked what they were for he didnt even know and said "never mind, you don't really need em".

After all was said and done I had about 20 rubber parts the total was about 150 bucks! I told him that I was just going to pull the part numbers myself online and order them from an online retailer.

That place was a joke. Remind me never to go back there.

Im gonna play around online and look for the o rings, then go back outside and sweat in the 100+ degree heat and pull at that shaft! Wish me luck!

What is the best way to get this bolt off so I can remove the rest of the u-joint fork on the other side of it, and get to the lock-ring and seal behind that? Is it reverse threaded? I dont wanna screw it up by torquing on it too hard...

mrdopes said:

That place was a joke. Remind me never to go back there.

Click to expand...

I live in CA...please share the name/location of this place so I be sure and not go there! Thanks.

I'd rather not crap on businesses.... I see u are from Sac, so you should know the place....its the largest marine parts center in Rancho Cordova, Ca. If you know the area you will know the place. They are nice, but understaffed and always in a hurry. 2 years ago i went in and bought some parts, they gave me ALL THE WRONG parts, and gave me store credit because they have a "all sales final policy". Im thinking about just buying a whole bunch of anchor rope so I dont have the credit anymore and have no need to go back to the place!

I went online and found all the seals/o-rings I need for 40 bucks!!!