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Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    Hi all, great site you guys have here with some very knowledgeable members. Thats good because I may need lots of help.

    Just picked up this engine a couple of days ago and It's in real nice shape for a 1972. The guy who I picked it up from said it hadn't been started in about 6 years. He also said that it was stored and serviced properly when put away.

    I brought it home, checked it over, hooked up the controls and fuel, Primed it up and proceeded to fire it and nothing, not even a click. There's power because the electric choke is working. I was curious to see if it would start so I jumped it off the solenoid and by golly it fired up. It's seems like to me though that it's starting up in forward gear and I can't get in into netural. It will go into reverse good and then into forward but thats it.

    I'm just wondering if this is the problem with it not starting with the key because it's stuck in gear? The guy I bought it from said it has hydro electric shift, I'm not sure what this means but maybe the last time it was running it was shut off in gear and needs to be started using the ignition to reposition itself to netural. Maybe theres a netural switch gone bad or something? I guess first thing I need to do is buy myself a shop manual and thats what I was doing when I found this site.

    Maybe I Hooked something up wrong when I plugged the controls in. There's the big plug that I mated to the plug on the engine. There was also one separate single wire with the plug that I assumed was a ground, maybe it's something else and should be attached to the solenoid or somewhere else?

    One other thing, I ran the engine on a set of muffs but didn't see any water discharging from the tail anywhere. It was peeing out on the lower part of the tail but no where else. I've noticed on some Johnsons the two side by side holes higher in the tail discharging some water there but nothing coming out on this engine, but maybe the tail has to be completely submerged in water. Any help on these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    With the engine ingaged in forward and reverse trying to start the engine from the key switch will not work at all. They are not supposed to be started in gear should be in neutral.

    Also with your cooling system with it sitting for 6 years you should deffinetly install a new water pump kit. the old one from sitting there has gotten dry and brital and will break off and shoot up into the passage way blocking the water which will cause you more issues.

    to make sure everything is working correctly:
    -do a compression test on it
    -also check to make sure each cylinder is getting a good spark (the spark should jump a good 7/16" gap with a bright blue spark makeing a zap)
    -change the lower unit gearcase oil when draining old oil make sure you watch to see if there is any water that comes out first or if there is any metal shavings

    once you have done the above you can work on getting the engine into neutral

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    Thanks omc. There was a compression test done before I purchased the motor and all cylinders over 100 and that was without gas/oil in the cylinders and pulling it over with a rope.

    Spark is good. Gearcase oil was changed.

    Where would the water discharge from? I don't see a hole anywhere other the the two holes side by side, and I assume these have some to do with the exhaust maybe? How would a guy go about getting this thing into neutral? Thanks.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    was the compression within 10% of each other?

    and i am not sure i will look into the pee hole thing what is the model number on your engine?

    is it 65ESL72S or 65ES72S
    Last edited by omc_10; 07-06-2010 at 08:33 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Posts
    244

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    from what i can see there is no other pee hole it should come out of those two holes side by side that you were telling me about
    exhaust also comes out through the prop area

    no matter what you should change your water pump
    put a new kit in not that expensive it will save you alot of money then if you run it and overheat the engine.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Milton, Fl
    Posts
    546

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    your motor has hydro electric shift. the motor stays in fwd when there is no power on the neutral and reverse solenoids. there are test to do that will tell you if your system is working or not. there is an diode in the remote control system that must be working, you need to get a manual for you motor and read how it works and how to trouble shoot the shift system. It can be hard to understand sometimes.

    as for chanking, if the throttle is advanced more than 1/4 fwd it will not start. the cutout switch attached to the armature plate will open the circuit to the starter solenoid.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    244

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    so then with it not turning over at all from the key switch has nothing to do with not being in neutral or what ?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , North Central Iowa,
    Posts
    401

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    The shifter has to be in neutral, but until the lower unit pump has to build enough pressure ( usually a couple of turns ), to shift the lower unit into neutral,the lower unit is in forward. After pressure is built, the lower unit goes into neutral.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Milton, Fl
    Posts
    546

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    This website sells the manuals for your motor, (if you need one) I would say go with the after market manual, It is easy to understand, where the OMC , OME service manuals can sometimes be hard to understand, because it is written for techs, that have been through their schools.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Posts
    244

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    thanks daviet for explaining!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by daviet View Post
    The shifter has to be in neutral, but until the lower unit pump has to build enough pressure ( usually a couple of turns ), to shift the lower unit into neutral,the lower unit is in forward. After pressure is built, the lower unit goes into neutral.
    Ok, I definitely need a shop manual, I'm lost already. So from my understanding I have three problems.

    Motor should be pumping water through two pee holes.?

    The lower unit pump or neutral/reverse solenoid is not working.

    And if engine is in forward gear when stopped and pump needs to build pressure to shift unit into neutral then it doesn't matter what gear the motor is in, it should start with the ignition. So I must have ignition problems also?

    Am I understanding all this correctly? Thanks
    Last edited by Make-n-Break; 07-07-2010 at 01:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , North Central Iowa,
    Posts
    401

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    1) You will not see a lot of water coming out of the exhaust ports if you are running engine on muffs, with the boat in the water, the water level is about 1/2 way up the housing an causes water to spit out of the exhaust ports. Most of the water will come out through the prop. If you can hould your hand on the cylinder head for 2 or 3 seconds you are probably ok. You will never get a solid stream of water out of the exhaust ports.
    2) Try changing lower unit oil, use the correct type for electric shift lower units, check for water at the same time, these lower units will not work with water in them.
    3) Your gear selector has a neutral safty switch in it so that the starter will only get voltage when the selector is in neutral. If your engine starts properly in neutral, your starting circut is working properly.
    If the lower unit is in gear after the engine is started for a second, you could have a wiring or solenoid problem in the lower unit. This is where the OEM manual will help you check out your system.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Whidbey Island
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    Mr. Joe Reeves wrote the following on this engine...

    (Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
    (J. Reeves)
    "The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

    You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

    Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.

    In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
    In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
    In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)

    To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.

    This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).
    With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire."

    He definately knows what he's talking about and I believe this should answer your questions.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    Great information daviet and sgtmaj83. Thanks for taking the time to post. This information along with a manual should get me going in the right direction.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,678

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    There are two diodes in the shifting circuit. This is necessary because when the engine is turned off, if the power to the shift circuit is cut, the gearcase will jump into forward. So power is allowed to keep the gearcase in neutral until the engine stops moving. This is accomplished with one diode. The second diode prevents this power from getting into the 12 volt ignition circuit through the accessory circuit, which would keep the engine running when the keyswitch is in the off position.

    Neither diode would prevent the engine from cranking if defective. The symptoms would be that the engine starts in forward, or the engine does not turn off.

    No cranking would probably be the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter solonoid, blown fuse, or a discontinuous wire in the harness.

  16. #16
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    Nov 2008
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    244

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    make-n-break
    the engine has been sitting for 6 years so put a new water pump kit it that way for sure you know you have a good cooling system

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: 1972 65 hp Johnson..... few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyob View Post
    There are two diodes in the shifting circuit. This is necessary because when the engine is turned off, if the power to the shift circuit is cut, the gearcase will jump into forward. So power is allowed to keep the gearcase in neutral until the engine stops moving. This is accomplished with one diode. The second diode prevents this power from getting into the 12 volt ignition circuit through the accessory circuit, which would keep the engine running when the keyswitch is in the off position.

    Neither diode would prevent the engine from cranking if defective. The symptoms would be that the engine starts in forward, or the engine does not turn off.

    No cranking would probably be the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter solonoid, blown fuse, or a discontinuous wire in the harness.
    Good info too tonyob. Once the engine is started by jumping the solenoid the ignition will shut it off.

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