mercrusier 1987 470 voltage regulator issue

as we who have this engine know the water cooled voltage regulator is a failure prone componet...since 1987 I have owned this engine..day one 1987 voltage regulator was defective used boat...cost for new regulator was 135.oo cheap at todays prices of 400-500....

this year my voltage regulator started to over charge with voltages about 16volts but only when cold/first starting for about 10 min until the engine was at operating temp...then it would hold at 14volts ..


I decided to therefore install a dash switch to open the positive output of the voltage regulator ..I used a 20 ft long 2 conductor power cord #16 ga. wire ...

what occured surprised me as the power cord dropped the output by 2-3volts...now with the bypass switch in the closed position I am getting 13.5-14.5volts depending on the RPM of engine ...

In the open position no charging just 12.5volts...


since I have the voltmeter on my dash not the ampmeter , my guess is the ampmeter adds resistance to the voltage regulator output ..this limits the ability of the regulator to create a huge surge in current since it is not directly connected to the battery as the voltmeter guage wiring does..

this maybe why these regulators fail ...some did have the ampmeter ..I wonder if those setups had this issue or not...

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

You never considered putting a alternator and forget about that pos original setup ?

There is a kit for that.

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

chiefalen said:

You never considered putting a alternator and forget about that pos original setup ?

There is a kit for that.

Click to expand...

I have searched for these kits and have read the install instructions ..with my boat/engine serial number it appears to be the easiest to install...still costs a large amount of money just for a one wire self excited alternator . also the boat does not require a 68 amp power output ...the most I need is 10-20 amps ..

I hope that someone that had or has the ammeter in the dash could add some input on, if this had some effect of the life of these OEM voltage regulators. They are the same just a slightly different wiring ..

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

heres a site just for your setup.

Discussion Forum: 470 Talk

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

jcat, chiefallen is right about the water cooled voltage regulator on the 470's. (Obviously, they were a serious problem on many a 470!) However, some old timers swear by the old setup and refuse to make a change to the alternator kits. The problem can be more complicated than just replacing the water cooled voltage regulator. There are other issues with the magnets in the rectifier (harmonic balancer or front pulley) Over time, the magnets come unglued and can cause alot of damage if one or all breaks loose (break a hole in front timing cover or cause a fire and loss of your boat). If you were to combine the cost of both the rectifier,water cooled voltage regulator and windings for the old setup I bet you would be up near the thousand mark or better just for the parts. I agree with you on the alternators that they sell being to high in amperage but that is what they sell and that is what everyone is doing with these remaining 470's that still run. They sell used voltage regulators on ebay motors under Mercruiser 470 but you really don't know what you are buying without being able to test it first. (that is the problem) In other words, you are beating an old dead horse by going with the water cooled voltage regulator setup. breezeworks 470 talk is the place to get good advice about the engine you have and they will tell you the same thing that I did. jmho
best wishes on whatever you decide to do, Tom

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

thanks for your response .

when I repaired the water pump seal issue I found that the stator windings looked very good despite the age ...

the condition of the engine and boat does not reveal its age ..the boat is not left in the water for any length of time so the damage of mositure corrosive environment is minimal..

I agree with you that the alternator install , with the removal of the stator coils is a good thing to do ..with what could occur should the coils get loose...

the web site forum recommended had the last posting in april 2010..

I will try to contact them ...with the current economy many in this service industry are going out of business..

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

j cat said:

as we who have this engine know the water cooled voltage regulator is a failure prone componet...since 1987 I have owned this engine..day one 1987 voltage regulator was defective used boat...cost for new regulator was 135.oo cheap at todays prices of 400-500....

this year my voltage regulator started to over charge with voltages about 16volts but only when cold/first starting for about 10 min until the engine was at operating temp...then it would hold at 14volts ..


I decided to therefore install a dash switch to open the positive output of the voltage regulator ..I used a 20 ft long 2 conductor power cord #16 ga. wire ...

what occured surprised me as the power cord dropped the output by 2-3volts...now with the bypass switch in the closed position I am getting 13.5-14.5volts depending on the RPM of engine ...

In the open position no charging just 12.5volts...


since I have the voltmeter on my dash not the ampmeter , my guess is the ampmeter adds resistance to the voltage regulator output ..this limits the ability of the regulator to create a huge surge in current since it is not directly connected to the battery as the voltmeter guage wiring does..

this maybe why these regulators fail ...some did have the ampmeter ..I wonder if those setups had this issue or not...

Click to expand...

I found the answer to my question about the ammeter used with some of these engines in the voltage regulator circuit .


It appears that mercruiser had issues with the ammeter droping the charging current , because of the long run and the meter internal resistance . instruction states remove the ammeter and follow the wire changes ...then remove ammeter and install the voltmeter ..in its place ...

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

j cat said:

I found the answer to my question about the ammeter used with some of these engines in the voltage regulator circuit .


It appears that mercruiser had issues with the ammeter droping the charging current , because of the long run and the meter internal resistance . instruction states remove the ammeter and follow the wire changes ...then remove ammeter and install the voltmeter ..in its place ...

Click to expand...

I decided to go along with the forum members suggestion and delete the water cooled regulator for the alternator conversion..

I found breezeworks did have the most compact and best fit. along with the alternator that has a field excitation which gives a good current output at idle..cost was 317.oo .

the only issue I have is the poorly shipped product. the alternator fan got bent.. no wraping on the alternator and the hardware was thrown into the box mixed with the plastic popcorn filler...


very easy install ..the engine running at 500-2500rpm with muff on voltage did not change, a solid 14.5volts..with no fluctuations like the OEM regulator unit would do when it was new and working...

thanks for your input with this \http://

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

I used to think the alt kit was the way to go but jeez $300? I can still buy cheap parts for the stator/regulator on ebay. If it ain't broke at this point I'm not replacing it. Mine has to be the high mount and I think Breezeworks stopped making them. There is a guy here locally making a kit but he's even more expensive than breezeworks. Bunch a BS for a a simple bracket and a fan belt.

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

pugetsounder said:

I used to think the alt kit was the way to go but jeez $300? I can still buy cheap parts for the stator/regulator on ebay. If it ain't broke at this point I'm not replacing it. Mine has to be the high mount and I think Breezeworks stopped making them. There is a guy here locally making a kit but he's even more expensive than breezeworks. Bunch a BS for a a simple bracket and a fan belt.

Click to expand...

with the setup I have the conversion alternator kit fit perfectly.
the voltage is a solid 14.5vdc ...the oem regulator did have too much voltage fluctuations , not a smooth output but a pulsating half wave pulse...this works much better..NOW WE WILL SEE HOW LONG IT WORKS !

BACK IN 1979 not too much senitive electronics , today you must have a good voltage source for the electricals or suffer damage ..

when it does break I would call kevin laughlin the owner of breezeworks and ask about the upper mount kit...

they also have the water cooled regulator for 350.oo oem style .

at the end of the season I am going to remove the stator windings and the magnets....just got back from the water , runs perfectly ..

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

regarding this post cat. I am getting some strange type shp-shp-shp bearing like noise in where the stator is. Perhaps even though it was done on mine, the magnets etc... gave up the ghost. I am certainly getting no charge. But as Sounder, my neighbor says, I aint running the bill up on my engine at this point. It just isnt worth it. So Id like to diagnose and get over it if its truly broke.

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

20miler said:

regarding this post cat. I am getting some strange type shp-shp-shp bearing like noise in where the stator is. Perhaps even though it was done on mine, the magnets etc... gave up the ghost. I am certainly getting no charge. But as Sounder, my neighbor says, I aint running the bill up on my engine at this point. It just isnt worth it. So Id like to diagnose and get over it if its truly broke.

Click to expand...

the magnets may have moved , the flywheel magnets may be hitting the stator windings... with the engine running measure at the regulator the voltage at the stator wires to ground if they read exactly the same the stator is ng.. the voltage should be slightly different ..if the voltages [ac] are very different this means the regulator is defective...

what ever you do,,,, if you run the engine with the regulator removed from the boat battery/load you will smoke that regulator in 30 seconds...

the regulator must be attached to the battery when engine is running ,,,,

Re: mercrusier 470 voltage regulator issue

I have a 1987 Sea Ray Seville. I can't do the conversion kit. It sticks
out too far. I have to go back to the old water cooled regulator. My only question is.. Where the heck is it located?

Thanks,

Jon

follow the water hose from the transom assembly....the regulator should be the first thing going forward, towards the heat exchanger....

RE: ....to open the positive output of the voltage regulator ..I used a 20 ft long 2 conductor power cord #16 ga. wire ...

what occured surprised me as the power cord dropped the output by 2-3volts...now with the bypass switch in the closed position I am getting 13.5-14.5volts depending on the RPM of engine ..."

That is the voltage drop I'd expect from the too thin 16 ga wire...

RE:..." remove the ammeter and follow the wire changes ...then remove ammeter and install the voltmeter ..in its place ..."

Specifically....Ammeter is wired in SERIES with the 12V feed, while the voltmeter needs to be wired in PARALLEL with the 12 V feed.