Sorry this is a little long but moderator said put in all the info up front:
My friend's 2003 Honda BF130a is stalling after a several month layup due to hydraulic steering problem.
About 10 days ago I did basic service (I can do simple stuff reasonable well on engines) on boat after the steering was repaired (plugs, oil, main boat supply fuel filter, lower unit oil and impeller). No sign of fuel in the oil. The old fuel in the tank was untouched. We test ran the boat for short run at all speeds with no problem.
On return to dock 30 gal. of fuel which had been sitting for some time (probably ethanol fuel) was added to the 50 gal. boat tank.
The boat was run the next day with the stalling problem. Have a shop manual for a couple of year earlier 115/130 and generally following that protocol.
Engine history - purchased in 2002 and has run perfectly till 2010. Appears that little or no service done on engine since 20 hour check other than perhaps oil and oil filters. Actually this is a tribute to this Honda. Shortly after engine purchased, a new 50 gal. aluminum fuel tank was installed in this 20ft. Sea Craft center console. The replacement tank is located such that the fuel pickup fitting on tank is not accessibe through the old pie eyes in the deck. Only the fuel sender and the fuel tank vent fitting can be seen.
This engine is after the famous recall for the High Pressure Fuel Pump (it has the new design) and the only recall outstanding is the main relay but that should not cause this problem.
Engine cranks and starts every time but would sometimes idle rough and die and when on plane (3600 rpm and higher ) would suddenly loose power in surges clearly sounding like fuel starvation. Primer ball is not going "flat" although when problem occurs the Vapor separator is clearly drained as the primer ball is soft and must be pumped many times till vapor separator float valve closes.
Have been troubleshooting for over a week now and suspect a fuel supply problem either from a restriction from the tank to the engine or inadequate flow from the fuel lift pump. Problem occurs even if gas cap off fuel tank fill line.
Here is what I've done:
Could not do fuel pressure check as new high pressure fuel pump has tiny plug (metric ?) on housing of high pressue filter as only evident spot to tap in but fuel pressure seems fine as long and pump gets fuel.
Replaced engine low pressure fuel fiter
Cleaned engine fuel water separator (no water)
Ran boat a couple of times with an auxilliary tank and seemed to run fine then once or twice got same stalling and had to hand pump the Vapor container full again.
Replace engine high pressure fuel filter (found completely collapsed onto itself and based on difficulty getting screws out I suspect never been changedi in 7 years)
Remove and inspected fuel supply pump (no obvious issues nor any screens evident)
Pulled fuel supply pump discharge line and appears to flow OK when engine momentarily started (pressure not checked)
Ran engine and pull each injector connector with noticable drop in RPM each time - appear all injectors working proberly
Drained fuel tank and filled with non-ethanol fuel
Blew back through fuel supply hose (3/8") back into tank with compressed air- this appears to have helped as engine ran for a full day fishing/dive trip immediately afterwards.
Replaced above deck fuel hoses from Racor type boat filter to engine (had to adapt a 3/8" to 5/16" connector as engine fuel connector is for 5/16".
No check engine light on but when ECM codes checked per procedure got the three blinks for the MAP sensor - lubricated and re-attached the MAP sensor connector and the code did not reappear (hopefully this will help with the rough idle and stall at idle I was getting which may have been completely separate from the stalling from fuel starvation)
Diassembled the High Pressure Pump and Vapor Separator and cleaned all - found small amounts of residue appear reasonable after 7 years of servce, Float valve worked fine so did not disassemble it, plastic jacket/sleeve around fuel pump could not be removed without destruction and appears to have a fine screen built into the bottom for the pump suction. Carefully cleaned this with clean gas and blew out with air through a small acces port that connects pump housing to vapor separator housing.
Test run after fuel tank drain and refill and MAP sensor connector yesterday gave good idling results but still had one stall at high RPM when on plane (I assume from fuel starvation as primer ball was soft but not collapsed and had to pump VST full to resume operation) boat gets back up on plane and runs normally after filling the VST with the primer ball. Opened fuel line and blew back by mouth into tank then by milking primer ball I can get it to eventually stay full and the engine my run fine all day such as it did for the all day trip the day before.
Other potential caused I plan to check are:
1. either low pressure pump inadequate suction or inadequate flow rate
2. fuel line supply problem (fouled or plugged screen on pick up tube) -
3. I have also heard of anti syphon valve in the fuel tank - do all fuel tanks have this. I assume this is some kind of check valve to prevent flow back into the fuel tank. The fuel ball does the same thing if oriented vertically
4.Fuel line air leak (is only way to test a pressure check?) without physically removing the fuel supply hose from the tank which I can not get at without removing T-top and center console
5.Injectors - I can't think of an injector problem that would cause the VST to run empty while the engine is running smoothly at 3600 to 5000 rpm???
6. Engine compressing check not done but no symptoms I see here suggesting a compression problem (runs strong and smooth when it runs)
Any ideas For checks I can do on either pump discharge pressure and flow or fuel line/tank for flow and possible air leaks?
My friend's 2003 Honda BF130a is stalling after a several month layup due to hydraulic steering problem.
About 10 days ago I did basic service (I can do simple stuff reasonable well on engines) on boat after the steering was repaired (plugs, oil, main boat supply fuel filter, lower unit oil and impeller). No sign of fuel in the oil. The old fuel in the tank was untouched. We test ran the boat for short run at all speeds with no problem.
On return to dock 30 gal. of fuel which had been sitting for some time (probably ethanol fuel) was added to the 50 gal. boat tank.
The boat was run the next day with the stalling problem. Have a shop manual for a couple of year earlier 115/130 and generally following that protocol.
Engine history - purchased in 2002 and has run perfectly till 2010. Appears that little or no service done on engine since 20 hour check other than perhaps oil and oil filters. Actually this is a tribute to this Honda. Shortly after engine purchased, a new 50 gal. aluminum fuel tank was installed in this 20ft. Sea Craft center console. The replacement tank is located such that the fuel pickup fitting on tank is not accessibe through the old pie eyes in the deck. Only the fuel sender and the fuel tank vent fitting can be seen.
This engine is after the famous recall for the High Pressure Fuel Pump (it has the new design) and the only recall outstanding is the main relay but that should not cause this problem.
Engine cranks and starts every time but would sometimes idle rough and die and when on plane (3600 rpm and higher ) would suddenly loose power in surges clearly sounding like fuel starvation. Primer ball is not going "flat" although when problem occurs the Vapor separator is clearly drained as the primer ball is soft and must be pumped many times till vapor separator float valve closes.
Have been troubleshooting for over a week now and suspect a fuel supply problem either from a restriction from the tank to the engine or inadequate flow from the fuel lift pump. Problem occurs even if gas cap off fuel tank fill line.
Here is what I've done:
Could not do fuel pressure check as new high pressure fuel pump has tiny plug (metric ?) on housing of high pressue filter as only evident spot to tap in but fuel pressure seems fine as long and pump gets fuel.
Replaced engine low pressure fuel fiter
Cleaned engine fuel water separator (no water)
Ran boat a couple of times with an auxilliary tank and seemed to run fine then once or twice got same stalling and had to hand pump the Vapor container full again.
Replace engine high pressure fuel filter (found completely collapsed onto itself and based on difficulty getting screws out I suspect never been changedi in 7 years)
Remove and inspected fuel supply pump (no obvious issues nor any screens evident)
Pulled fuel supply pump discharge line and appears to flow OK when engine momentarily started (pressure not checked)
Ran engine and pull each injector connector with noticable drop in RPM each time - appear all injectors working proberly
Drained fuel tank and filled with non-ethanol fuel
Blew back through fuel supply hose (3/8") back into tank with compressed air- this appears to have helped as engine ran for a full day fishing/dive trip immediately afterwards.
Replaced above deck fuel hoses from Racor type boat filter to engine (had to adapt a 3/8" to 5/16" connector as engine fuel connector is for 5/16".
No check engine light on but when ECM codes checked per procedure got the three blinks for the MAP sensor - lubricated and re-attached the MAP sensor connector and the code did not reappear (hopefully this will help with the rough idle and stall at idle I was getting which may have been completely separate from the stalling from fuel starvation)
Diassembled the High Pressure Pump and Vapor Separator and cleaned all - found small amounts of residue appear reasonable after 7 years of servce, Float valve worked fine so did not disassemble it, plastic jacket/sleeve around fuel pump could not be removed without destruction and appears to have a fine screen built into the bottom for the pump suction. Carefully cleaned this with clean gas and blew out with air through a small acces port that connects pump housing to vapor separator housing.
Test run after fuel tank drain and refill and MAP sensor connector yesterday gave good idling results but still had one stall at high RPM when on plane (I assume from fuel starvation as primer ball was soft but not collapsed and had to pump VST full to resume operation) boat gets back up on plane and runs normally after filling the VST with the primer ball. Opened fuel line and blew back by mouth into tank then by milking primer ball I can get it to eventually stay full and the engine my run fine all day such as it did for the all day trip the day before.
Other potential caused I plan to check are:
1. either low pressure pump inadequate suction or inadequate flow rate
2. fuel line supply problem (fouled or plugged screen on pick up tube) -
3. I have also heard of anti syphon valve in the fuel tank - do all fuel tanks have this. I assume this is some kind of check valve to prevent flow back into the fuel tank. The fuel ball does the same thing if oriented vertically
4.Fuel line air leak (is only way to test a pressure check?) without physically removing the fuel supply hose from the tank which I can not get at without removing T-top and center console
5.Injectors - I can't think of an injector problem that would cause the VST to run empty while the engine is running smoothly at 3600 to 5000 rpm???
6. Engine compressing check not done but no symptoms I see here suggesting a compression problem (runs strong and smooth when it runs)
Any ideas For checks I can do on either pump discharge pressure and flow or fuel line/tank for flow and possible air leaks?