350 crusader continued

I agree that 26@ seems low, and 4k seems high. But the its propped per book at 4800 - 5200. the motor turn 300 horses supposidly. Is there a way to time this thing with out taking it to 4k?

Yes I used a standard strobe light

model 50-473-07, 350 cid crusader/pleasure craft. 2007

We're trying to help you here, so please edit your first post and include the engine year and model. (I recall reading 2007 somewhere if memory serves me!)
Without this, you'll be getting the usual "all-over-the-board" responses, of which only a few will do you any good!

We need as much info from you as possible!

Mean time, Is your Harmonic Balancer marked off in degrees (and how many) so that you can determine which type of light to use?

It is getting a wee bit confusing when you are asking questions in three different threads.

As per your post in another thread:

2wind said:

I agree that 26@ seems low, and 4k seems high. But the its propped per book at 4800 - 5200. the motor turn 300 horses supposidly. Is there a way to time this thing with out taking it to 4k?

Click to expand...

If checking this dynamically, the simple answer is NO!
Keep in mind, it only needs to see 4K rpm for a second or two.

Its marked to 36 degrees I think

Excellent! Now you can use the Strobe ONLY timing light if you wish to!

Next questions:
Which ignition system are these? (twins, correct?)
Are they ECU/ECM systems?
Can you change things with a lap top computer link-up?

.

Single RH, No computer. Mallory ignition.

2wind said:

Single RH, No computer. Mallory ignition.

Click to expand...

Well for crying out loud!
A 2007 Crusader engine using a mechanically advancing ignition system?
OK, this changes things considerably, IMO. Had this been in your original question, it sure would have simplified things.
I love the Mallory ignition systems and the simplicity that they offer.... particularly the YLM series.

Here is a link to another forum where I've been trying to help a man who just doesn't understand his risks re; ignition timing. I have exhausted my efforts with him!
Take from it what you can! I don't have time right now or I'd tailor it to your scenario.
It should give you an understanding of how and what BASE advance is, and the relationship between BASE and what the mechanical advancing system does on top of BASE advance regarding TA.

Now with what your buddies suggested re; changing BASE to give you more TA makes sense.
However, I still maintain that you DO NOT want to use/take advice from those who DO NOT have Hands-On marine engine experience...... Period!

I'll check back!
.

I will look at the thread, thanks. So you know the guys that have offered help are great lakes charter captains... more marine experience than can be calculated. However its all on 80's vintage motors.

im new to this message board thing so I appolojise for incorrect formatting.

My distibuter is a ylm 619 bv

What's the MODEL NUMBER off the engine ID decal? (three or four digits between the dashes are most critical)

Please describe how the balancer is marked

Simple questions but key to understanding exactly what you have.

The model number is 50-573-07

The balancer, this is from memory.. marked @ 2 degree incriments, labeled every 5 degrees.

Just talked with the installation tech, he had a digital advance light.

In my opinion, if its timmed right, and I have fuel and spark its all good. But why are the plugs fouling ? Every bolt on attachment has been replaced except the distributer, but the module has been. This was a crate motor not a remanned

http://www.crusaderengines.com/manuals/L510020-06.pdf, that should be the manual I have been working with

Okay - you know the 3 verifies what spawned the question - this is a RH engine (assuming the correct replacement went back in). So it runs "backwards" and the sense of timing advance is "backwards" from a normal engine. Good news is ZERO is still ZERO, assuming the timing tab's indexing was verified.

Do you know that the crate motor was built like the original? I'd suspect it wasn't. In that case, I'd talk to whoever built the crate motor and use their recommendations for timing settings as long as they provide them in writing. If you have what I think you may have, the timing settings may need to be increased. Like Rick noted, just don't go advancing things like you may have done on a car.

Mark, I've been confused on several points here. Maybe you can help plumb me up.

Mean while:

However its all on 80's vintage motors.
Single RH, No computer.
Mallory ylm 619 bv ignition.
So you know the guys that have offered help are great lakes charter captains... more marine experience than can be calculated.

Click to expand...

Questons, and just curious here:

Why are you calling this a single engine and RH rotation? Single engines are usually Std LH rotation.
Is this a twin engine boat????? and is this your Stbd engine?????
If so, that explains the term RH, and explains the BV on the Mallory.
It may also explain your delimma on the timing, although your experienced guys would certainly know how to do this!

Why are you using the YLM 619 BV and not a 624 BV? The two have different advance curves. Has this advance curve been suggested to you?
And what is this "Module" that you are now speaking of? The YLM series is a VR w/ Mechanical Advancing! These do not use a Module, unless you are speaking of the "Reluctor" and "Pick-up" unit!

Why, if your balancer is marked off, and you have a Mallory YLM, are you using a digitally advancing timing light? Grab a standard strobe type light, and view this in real time/real degrees! Sheesh! :rolleyes:
(a little sarcasm to make a point! )

And lastly, in another thread you referred to this as a 2007 350 Crusader. If this is an 80's vintage replacement engine, it will be quite different. A 2007 350 Crusader would be using different components..... the ignition system in particular.

As with any forum, the more complete info that we have UP FRONT, the better it helps us help you efficiently and accurately! It gets us all on the same page, so to speak!

.

slow down and read whats writtin guys...

This is a brand new 2007 motor from crusader...Not rebuilt

most single in boards are RH, as is mine.(crusader verified this as a way to control production costs) I do not have twin engines.
This motor came complete less the pullys, starter and altenator. we had to change the fly wheel and bolt up my tranny. I changed carbs from holley to idelbrock. played with plugs. new fuel pump, ignition coil, distributer module, and plug wires. the same problem still exists..




The 80's reference was to my "mechanics" experience. I have been a lisenced captain for 15 years, I am no mechanic...but im not an idiot either.
Ive owned a dozen boats, just never anything this new. I know what I have for an engine. Thanks for the help, but this is not the way to fix a problem

Look, no need to lock horns here, several of us are trying to be very helpful!
Sorry if you were rubbed the wrong way with my responses. Just trying to become clear on your issue, what all you have, etc. And we can be most helpful when all the info is here for us.
At least we now have one thread to focus on, so let's move forward the best we can!

2wind said:

slow down and read whats writtin guys...
This is a brand new 2007 motor from crusader...Not rebuilt
most single in boards are RH, as is mine.(crusader verified this as a way to control production costs) I do not have twin
................ new fuel pump, ignition coil, distributer module, and plug wires.

Click to expand...

I have to ask this first.... what is a Distributor Module for a Mallory YLM 619 BV?
The YLM is a VR (variable reluctor) style.... i.e., a Magnetic Reluctor and Pick-Up triggering unit, Mechanical Advance! I'm not arguing the point, I'm just curious as to make sure that we're on the same page!


Just an FYI here....... most single engine boats are equipped with a Standard LH (CCW) rotation engine.
Std LH Rotation is Counter-Clockwise as viewed from the flywheel end.
They are always viewed from the Flywheel End when determining rotation!
RH, or Reverse Rotation, or CW rotation...., is also determined from viewing the flywheel end.

If you do have a single RH (CW) rotation engine, it would be rare, and it may have been something that Crusader did during your year model.
However, tune up, BASE timing and TAT, etc, is just as easy to do with a Counter Rotating Engine.


Here are several sources of information regarding rotation.



Click here to see more info on RH/LH rotation at Performance Product Technologies.



Here is another one that is too large to post.
http://slawecki.com/PennYan/Penn Yan Info/wiring and distributors/DISTRIBUTOR WIRING GM FORD.jpg

makomark said:

................ Good news is ZERO is still ZERO, assuming the timing tab's indexing was verified.
...............
I'd talk to whoever built the crate motor and use their recommendations for timing settings as long as they provide them in writing. If you have what I think you may have, the timing settings may need to be increased. Like Rick noted, just don't go advancing things like you may have done on a car.

Click to expand...

Yes, several very good points, Mark.

And 2wind, just to qualify something that I mentioned earlier re; the 26* @ 4k rpm...... it's not so much the 26* that I think is on the low side........ It's rather that it comes on so late (4k rpm).

Just a comment on that!

I share some of Ricardo's confusion though the latest posts have mitigated that somewhat. Ironically, the source was reading what was written.

The 26 deg at 4K rpm is real (unless the OM has a recurring error).

I'm kind of curious as to how the damper is marked because I've never seen one, as described, from a mrine OEM, on a standard production engine. furthermore, I've seen several aftermarket ones with the detail as described but never for a RH engine, only LH ones.

also curious as to what a '619 distributor is as I can't find any online data on that part and there's nothing in my 8 year old mallory catalog (at least in the marine section).

I'd also venture the the preponderance of a RH or LH engine being 'standard' is a regional thing, driven primarily by the source(s) of supply.

This is not easily found in Mallory's data base, but apparently the 619 is for a SBC, it is still YLM VR triggering, but the advance curve is different from the 624.
The 624 seems to offer a good curve for an engine using a Q/E piston/head combination.
I too would like to know more about the 619!