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Last effort to fix Honda bf225

If the Service Plug is connected and there are no codes, the mil will be steady. There is a but....it does say if the engine condition continues without the MIL blinking, check the following: Short circuit in sensor system power supply line; Open circuit in power supply line for ECM; Faulty ECM.

The relay that was replaced was probably the main relay, which powers the ECM and the fuel pump.

The only Service Bulletin on the 225's that I can find that replaces the ECM was an false overheat situation on the 2002 models only.

Mike
 
Thanks for the update fellas. I will get back to this thread once the part comes in. Wife is due on the 15th so hopefully the part makes it in before the baby arrives.

When this all started, I was drift fishing in following seas and the motor got soaked. When I went to start the motor it idled rough and when I went to put gas to it bogged down bad. Like it has been doing all along. At this point I fired up the kicker and it ran like crap and kept dieing on me. I was convinced I got water into my tank or something worse. I used the big motor to idle over behind a small island where I could toss out the anchor and jack with the motor. After sitting for a couple of hours the kicker ran fine again so I began to idle home on it. At this point I was about 25 miles from port so I new I was in for a long evening. Every once in a while I would stop and try the big motor and finally one time it began to pull itself out of its funk. At about mid throttle it would run fine and then bog down, run fine then bog down etc. After about 5 minutes of this it stayed running fine and I hi tailed it to home. Once in harbor the motor had a horrible idle to it and and barely got me into the slip. I took it out a couple of times after that only to have the same issues where it would alternate between running okay and running horrible. I was convinced at that time it was bad gas so I kept trying to run the tank empty and fill up with new gas. However, nothing changed and eventually it got to the point where I am not that it always runs like crap.

I have tried running the motor on an isolated tank, switched out racors and checked the water seperater on the motor. None of them have shown presence of water but I replaced the fuel lines anyways. What I am thinking now is that the intakes on both motors got wet which led to both of them running bad right after initial start up. The Bf225 with the 02 sensor issue was likely (or so I hope) further damaged which is why it didn't bounce back like the kicker. ( A 2004 Honda 15)

If it is not this, was there a consensus on whether or not the leakdown test would be a reasonable risk to take on this motor?

anyways, hopefully this will ring a bell or offer other clues to the crew here.
 
Futurerancher,

Funny what you find on the web when you search, same problem, same year, same two motors, and wife just had a baby on the 12th.

Question is there only 1 O2 sensor?

-Mike
 
I believe that there is only the one 02 sensor. It is on the port side of the motor's exhaust manifold. Can't miss it. I am waiting for some parts and will keep the forum updated. Good luck with your motor and new baby! If you get yours fixed let me know what you did to remedy it.
 
I sure don't like this new format! This is the second time I've seen this thread presented as "updated" only to find it is several days old. Or, is it just me?
 
Well bummer, the 02 sensor didn't fix the issue. Still does the exact same thing. (Idles rough and bogs down when the throttle is added.)

Two questions....

1) When taken out of gear, I can rev the motor to 5000+ rpms with no problem. It sounds wonderful and runs smooth. When I try that in gear it bogs down. Does the throttle position sensor have anything to do with this?

2) Does anyone know what the symptoms are of a bad main relay? Remember, at first this problems was sporadic until it went full time.

Thanks so much everyone...
 
I went back and re-read all of this thread and noticed that while oxygen sensor, throttle position sensor and idle air control have been mentioned, a load sensing sensor has not been mentioned.

I have an automotive and truck background and am by no means an expert on large outboards but I do know that pretty much all electronically controlled, fuel injected, gasoline engines use one of two types of load sensors. MAF (mass air flow) or MAP (manifold absolute pressure). On cars and trucks, barometric pressure baseline is usually incorporated into these load sensors for altitude compensation. I don't have any documentation for these engines but perhaps someone out there (Mike?) can point you in the right direction to try and find out if your load sensor was damaged when it got wet. The computer uses basically 4 pieces of information to drive fuel delivery. It looks at:
RPM-Throttle position-Engine loading-Exhaust gas oxygen content.

You said that it will run smoothly and rev up ok in nuetral so that tells me that the TPS, tach and maybe even the oxygen sensor are working in harmony. But, when you add a load, it all goes south.

Initially, I liked the idea posed by sandkicker of unplugging and cleaning each and every plug connector. If you haven't done that, you might reconsider. I've used WD-40 for years to spray distributor caps and plug wires on vehicles that have been driven through water and then they start right up and run perfectly. WD displaces water and doesn't harm plastics. Recently, I've been using a product called FADER LUBE from Guitar Center to clean underhood electrical connectors and drying them with compressed air.

Just a couple of ideas from a guy that couldn't figure out how to go to "page 2".
 
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This is probably the longest series posts on this forum. If at all possible, get that engine to a Honda dealer and have them first go through a complete diagnostic with the HDS. If that doesn’t find the problem, then have them start checking all fuel pressures and vacuum lines.

I still think you have a fuel feed problem or a vacuum problem, based on your descriptions over these many posts.

Having said that, let’s go over the MIL fault procedure again. You should be shorting the lime green/white to black – that is, the two wires that are closest to the engine when the red service connector is in it’s holder. If in doubt, invest in a SCS service connector, which you can order online. Part number 070PZ-ZY30100.

If the MIL comes on and stays on without blinking, you have one of the following conditions:
· Short circuit in the service check connector wire
· Short circuit in the MIL wire
· Short circuit in the sensor system power supply
· Open circuit in the power supply line to the ECM
· Faulty ECM

If the MIL comes on, then goes off after a few seconds, there are no codes in the EPROM.

If the MIL starts blinking, then count the blinks, which will indicate the fault code.

Based on what you have written so far, and assuming you have run the MIL diagnostics correctly you are not getting any codes. That eliminates a bunch of things - problems with the HO2 sensor, the MAP sensor, CKP sensor, ECT sensor, TP sensor, CMP sensor, IAT sensor, BARO sensor, IAC Valve connector, VTEC solenoid & solenoid valve, the knock sensor, overheat sensors, oil pressure, HO2 heater circuit, spark plug misfires, and CMP sensor. No codes also pretty much eliminates open circuits.

However, I would sure go through the engine and check all connections, especially ground connections, just to eliminate that possibility.

Once you go through all of that, I would attack the fuel system and vacuum system again. Something is being overlooked. The fact that it runs sweet under no load, but then bogs down under load, still points to a fuel problem, a vacuum problem, or possibly a timing problem.

Keep us posted. This is becoming one heck of a mystery.
 
When I run the codes I get a solid red light and from what you posted, it looks like all is well or perhaps I have a faulty ECM which is unlikely.

I have given up and am taking it to a Honda certified tech over the weekend. He is 3 weeks out so it is likely that we are done with the boat for this summer. :mad: hopefully, I will be able to get it back in time for the Silver run in late August.

I will keep everybody updated on the outcome.
 
Roger that. However, as I stated before, if you execute the proper short on the service connector, the MIL light should come on, then either blink out a fault code or go off. If it stays on, then there are a bunch of possible issues, including a faulty ECM. Let us know how it turns out.
 
I just made a quick review of the thread....

It occurs to me that good spark has not been verified.

Remove all the plugs and check each for colour or wet (note results).

Note we grounded all the plugs not under test and removed to prevent the engine from firing.

Get a spark tester and test each coil, Ensure good spark all around.

Then rotate any off colour or wet plugs.....(note results)...

Replace weak or dead plugs and coils. Really replace all the plugs anyway.

Last weekend I had very poor idling, and lost of top end. (Two Dead Plugs).

ECM tested fine. (i got bad HO2S a couple of times).....


The unburnt fuel in the exhaust causes ECM to limit fuel flow at full throttle...

The wide open throttle plate with low air flow causes lack of vacuum and poor LP Fuel pump.

Anyway two new plugs and I hit WOT at 5400 rpm. A little slow but I had three people in the boat, and some luggage.
 
Futurerancher - Thanks for keeping the thread alive. This has been a real bummer and I am very curious as to what ended up being the problem. I think everyone who has participated in this odyssey feels the same. The 225 seems to be a very solid engine, but you have had a heck of an experience and we all wish you well and a speedy resolution.

BTW - it has been 8 years since I last visited Alaska for the silver run, and I'm getting antsy to do it again. Although I love to consume the Atlantic coastal species, there is nothing to compare to fresh silvers (except maybe just caught black fin tuna.)
 
Diceromc, are you speaking for Futurerancher and saying definitively that the problem was a temperature sensor, or are you suggesting that may be the problem?

If the later, then it should have thrown off codes 24 and/or 25, and none were apparent.
 
chawk_man said:
Diceromc, are you speaking for Futurerancher and saying definitively that the problem was a temperature sensor, or are you suggesting that may be the problem?

If the later, then it should have thrown off codes 24 and/or 25, and none were apparent.
Click to expand...
It is my guess, of what the problem is. It is difficult to trouble shoot sight unseen.
Codes ! Well in the automotive world, a code for say the TPS can be other things other than the TPS, I've dealt with that many times.
Codes are not always thrown when something is not right. He had mentioned how long it took to warm up? I think it was this thread....
Anyway a temperature sensing of longer than normal cold, will have the ECU increase pulse width and causing mixture to go fat, or rich.
 
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Ok, I know very little about any of this, but man am I curious as to the results. This seems to be something to give a guy the Sh!7$ or something. I can't wait for the results. keep the thread going!
 
Hi Guys,

I am an Australian Honda tech with a lot of experience in 225's

having read through this post a couple of things come to mind.

These is most likely a fuel leak from repairs done to the VST and most likely the o-ring on the high pressure filter cover (as hondadude eluded to)

When an 02 sensor fails the engine then uses a base fuel mapping program which will make the engine run rich and have less power and will produce soot.

I have experienced several times the failure of spark plugs from wetting #6 cylinder, I would be changing the plugs and only ever use the standard plug recomended by Honda NGK IZFR611.

to sum up

change the plugs and find the fuel leak

Best of luck.

Garry
 
I agree with Gazzz change the plugs

My 130 did this but not to this degree with only one plug I would change all the plugs

good luck Randy

ps if not the plugs might be the plug wires
 
Hi guys

I have a 2005 Bf 225 that has the same symptoms. I had crossed Lake Michigan from Chicago to Southaven Michigan and ran the boat without any problems. A day later I went perch fishing and was drifting for a couple hours, the water was not rough.I started the motors and one of them seemed to have a miss. It felt like it was a fouled spark plug, I thought perhaps I over choked it in the morning. As I continued to run the motor. It cleared out and ran fine. The next day I took the boat out again in the motor started to miss. When I ran the boat back home, the engine would gain and lose power. It was very hard to steer, because the engine surged constantly. When I got home I called the Honda dealer and he said, to change the fuel filters. I changed all three filters, the high-pressure filter, the Raycor filter and the low pressure filter, I also replaced the high-pressure o ring it still ran the same.I called the dealer back, because it is still under warranty and told him that it still ran the same. He said to bring my boat into the shop, which I did. he said there were no computer codes. He changed the O 2 sensor and the power relay because there were recalls on both of them. He had me pick up the boat and it still ran the same.the engine only has 80 hours on it.
Does anyone have any suggestions. I am going to try new sparkplugs tomorrow.
 
I have 2 BF 225's on the boat the one that runs fine does not have any black suit by the exhaust ports and the motor that I am having problems with does. I pointed this out to the dealer. It also smells like it is running rich.
When I start the motors up, they increase their rpm's at the beginning of start-up and I noticed that the problem engine does not do this anymore.
 
How about a blast from the past? I never did update this thread as I got busy with life, had a baby, started a new job and made a move! I was searching for something else on this motor and this thread popped up. Hopefully some of the posters are still around. After taking the motor to a certified Honda dealer, the tech tried a 100 different things and finally got the rascal to work. To this day I am not 100% certain what the issue was and to be honest, neither was the mechanic. It had something to do with a mixture of bad fuel, fouled plugs and perhaps a small fuel leak as damn near every fuel line was replaced. Plugs were changed but one would immediately foul again. After about $2000 (mostly in parts)we got the motor up and running and it has been fine since. I just wanted to update this in case somebody ever has same issue. Moral of the story.....Gazzz was right!
 
Hey Futurerancher - long time off the net! Glad you FINALLY got her running. That was one of the longest threads I ever recall seeing on this forum. Are you still in the wilds of Alaska?
 
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