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1984 115hp Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

No breaks in the metal ring...just something in the picture...just went and double checked it...although I still havent pulled it off the head itself...

Any reason to break down further? Crank and pistons out too?
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

I sure would like to see another pic of the head and gasket, looks like a bad gasket- also head chambers are a different color- hope you do not mind my two cents.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Members with their two cents are always welcome TP. Where is Somerdale NJ? I'm originally from Millville NJ.

PDMoney...... How much more to dismantle is an unknown. But reassembling shouldn't be started until you find the entrance point of that foreign substance. Did you find any reason for the rpm change when you sprayed that lower main crankcase bolt?
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

The more the merrier on this thing! Thanks for your 2 cents..

Here's another shot of the heads...no breaks in the rings...I pulled them off to look at the other side too..they look good..good seal all around...

I did notice the different colors of the chambers also...not sure what to make of that...seems like water but not from head gaskets...doesnt mean its not possible but doesnt APPEAR to be from there..

At this point I'll do/try just about anything...

heads here as I seem to be over my limit on uploaded photos: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4704032359_c2bff531c9_b.jpg

Joe: I see no reason for the RPM change in that bolt area..the more I look into this thing and tried different things the less made sense. Even more so when its apart...I think we need to perform an Exorcism.

Could it be as simple as cleaning and reinstalling all with new gaskets and crankcase seal?

I just found a LOT of fuel sitting at the bottom of the engine too..practically the whole chamber circled here: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4704059479_28409c7a5e_b.jpg
Not sure if thats normal or not...

One quick question: does the crankshaft have to come out to replace the lower o-rings or should I be able to pull that bearing carrier out like the top comes off? Some reason I cant just pull that one off and I didnt want to force it...yet
 
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Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Joe, Somerdale is connected to the south side of Cherry hill also connected to Voorhees, Did you know that Millvile is now home to a race track? Beatiful area just no work being in the middle of nowhere.
With the problem at hand, a large amount of raw fuel in the lower crankcase area would seem like a fuel leak some place unless when you disassembled the the mtr the carbs dumped fuel by turning the mtr up.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Nope..carbs were taken off first as seen in the picture:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4059/4704837896_e70c9f0e43.jpg

That could explain my rich condition...where in the heck from????

It just occurred to me...could all that fuel still be in there from the previous time running with the bad recirculating valves?
Maybe it would have cleared out after a water test run?
 
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Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Uh-Oh...I can hear the fat lady warming up in the wings on this engine...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4704731031_6e232191b9.jpg

Thats the back of the engine...circled in yellow is my concern...

Close up here... http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1292/4704731067_6bfd742063.jpg

Lighting was not that great but you can clearly see holes...that corresponds to the baffle right here: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1269/4705406538_1886bb029d_b.jpg

notice the discoloration there...

Those holes dont appear to be directly connected to the water jackets but hard to tell.. Not liking what I see...will look more closely in the morning in better light...sigh........
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Pertaining to the inner exhaust baffle plate. They have a habit of warping and at time have been known to have flaws (holes) in them, leakage between the gaskets, etc.

Red hot exhaust on one side of the plate, water flow on the other side.

I'm still concerned about the rpm change when you sprayed that large bottom bolt. Did you find the cause?
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Yes, I saw that but I really can't tell exactly what I'm looking at. Of course I believe you when you say they're holes.... to me it looks like bubbles but that's because I'm not viewing the actual block itself. The cylinder water passageway is in that area if those holes go thru...........
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Yep, no question about it now..... those are holes sure enough. Was that port that clean or did you clean it up.

Also..... great close up picture. What camera are you using?
 
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Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

no, I did not clean anything...
The other ports are black with carbon...I noticed that difference too

its a ******* TL100...nothing fancy

So you think those connect to the water passages?

Am I crazy to think JB Weld or something like that??
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

No, JB Weld wouldn't hold up to that kind of heat. If they require sealing, I'd leave that to a machine shop to heli arc over them.

I'd find some way to block that port off so that I could have a level of water covering those holes to see if it travels in the water passage area.

Camera.... I need to get another one that has the "macro" feature for the close up feature. The one I have now goes all blurry if I try to get close. I have no idea what make a TL100 is.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

what kind of temperatures do you estimate to be in that chamber? That Durafix says it has a melting point of 732 degrees...might not be hot enough
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Reasonable priced camera. Has a flower on the controls (macro) so it's good for closeups.

Exhaust temperature..... no idea BUT extremely hot with powerful blast.

Sealing off the port..... I'd try cleaning the areas with either lacquer thinner or acetone, then using a good quality duct tape. That should hold water in.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

ok..good ideas...I was wondering if might only leak under load/pressure and warmed up too..

I didnt do anything with it today...will try it Thursday...had some fun today testing out the 4 x 4 with all new hubs and front end put in!! Will give you an update...

http://www.vimeo.com/12623129
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

So now the search begins....I thought I saw some sort of cross reference for Engine block years and what fits what on here but I cant find it... Specifically, do you know if a 1985 140 is the same block as mine? Looks the same in pictures but not sure about internals...the 140 has large center main bearings...how do I know the size of mine? Can I keep the exhaust etc...
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

ok...tried the water test...sealed of the port and filled with water...had both the cylinder wall side and the exhaust port side sealed and stood it up to see if anything came out...it was bone dry as far as I could see...

I put the head back on that side, seal as many water passages off as I could and ran my pressure washer through the water inlet on the bottom of the engine...nothing seems to be coming out of those "holes" in the exhaust port...

I'm just not convinced 100% that those "holes" are letting water in...

Do you think I am crazy to try putting this back together with new gaskets and seeing if it works? MAYBE an exhaust port gasket had a slight leak? MAYBE the crank case seal was bad too?
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

I don't think water was entering via those holes either.

Many a time water has entered a engine via a failing gasket, a gasket whereas a slightly loose bolt would allow salt to expand the area and allow water to pass thru. Even if salt were not a concern, did not exist, the slightly loose bolt would in time allow the water to flow by. The exhaust baffle plate are was notorious for that problem.

Note that I always replaced the inner exhaust baffle plate when rebuilding an engine. They have been known to warp and also to develop holes that are almost impossible to detect.

Your problem is obviously frustrating and baffling to many of us as well as yourself.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

I appreciate all the input...

That plate lists for $379? Mine does not seem all that corroded but I see where you are coming from..

Those "holes" are in some of teh other ports too..the fact that they were filled with carbon makes me think they dont go all the way through to the water jackets...

I think I am going to clean everything up, try the $100 worth of gaskets and see what happens..still do not have answers to anything for sure but I guess its worth a shot...
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

$379.00?? Holy S---! I used to replace them for under $40 and I thought that was pretty high. Second thoughts...... I'd clean it up thoroughly, reuse it if it checks out (no obvious problems), use gasket sealer whether its called for or not on the new gaskets (some gaskets state "use no sealer"), and tighten that item up.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

ok...maybe $379 is for the 140HP..either way I am screwed..the 115 is obsolete..but sold for $96... http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/1984/J115TLCRD 1984/CYLINDER & CRANKCASE/parts.html

Anyway, I found another crack in the block...it doesnt seem to effect water entering the engine and I know there were no leaks going OUT so I dont know what to make of this one...just makes me wonder whats in there that I cant see....sorry for bad picture...this is from cell phone: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4710355293_7fe3b7d83f.jpg

The outer case is split at the seem....the natural line in the casting is split right in half..its the bottom cylinder on the port side..right at the water deflector...

Make anything of that? Made me hesitant to put it back together!!!
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

I'd repair that outer crack with "Gray" Marine-Tex. It also comes in white but the gray colored appears to be the strongest. JB Weld comes in 2nd best. Marine-Tex is usually found in the dealership stores.
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

Just thought I'd post an update...the last crack is repaired with JB Weld...I have the gaskets in hand and will be starting the reassembly soon..I was sidetracked by a 1992 100 Evinrude I got for next to nothing...I thought maybe I would redo that instead but after taking it apart I found 2 bad pistons and Cylinders... BUT, I did find almost the EXACT same casting holes in the exhaust ports of that block...now I am convinced its just the way they are made..

Still no definite answers for why I am having a problem with mine but I am hopeful new gaskets and cleaning everything up with solve it...we'll know soon enough...

Also, just for kicks I cleaned up the exhaust ports with a die grinder....
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1356/4725903983_6c8d233a49_b.jpg
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

finally getting around to the re assembly...

2 things came up so far:

1. How much, if any, drag should there be on the rotating assembly once the bottom bearing cap on the crankshaft is tightened up? Without it on and no top half of the crankcase on I could spin the crank/pistons with one hand...once I put the bottom cap/bearing retainer screws on it takes a socket on the flywheel nut to turn it all and its kind of hard to turn.

2. Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Gel seal? If so, what is too much?
 
Re: 1984 115 Johnson Rough Idle - Oil Discharge

A 1/8" bead of GelSeal is sufficent. When compressed, that will spread out quite a few inches to seal. I usually take one finger and spread that bead around somewhat before bolting the other side of the crankcase down. You'll see it ooze out.... just scrape the excess off.

Spinning the crankshaft..... even with the crankshaft heads (top & bottom bearing caps) bolted down, the crankshaft should still spin freely. I'd suspect that you do not have the center bearing sleeve seated properly.... something of that nature.
 
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