Volvo 270 bellows change

[jcampbell]

Hi,

I posted a while back on changing my bellows out. Finally got a chance to start working on it after i started a new job. Heres whats up.

Drained the oil, disconnect all the linkages, removed the bolts. Transmission came of easily. No icky stuff in the drive and the oil was clean. Bellows on the other hand was a mix of sludge, salt crystals, and rust everywhere.

The u joints felt fine no slop or play in them, the shaft coming out of the engine didn't budge at all up or down and the seal isn't damaged. There is no slop in in the transmission end and the big bearing on the bottom was clean as a whistle. I think i may have lucked out. My neighbor likes to tinker with those things so he is going to replace the u-joints and clean it up. Who ever previously changed it used bellows adheasive when i was told you werent.

Now for spline grease i have a whole bunch of Chevron extreme pressure extreme temp NLGI 2 i think grease. We use it on the semi 5th wheels. Will that work for greasing the splines and hitting the zirk fiting on top of the bell housing to grease the bearing.

Oh yeah it took all of 20min to take the transmission off one i found my allen wrench to get to the bolts inside the cover...

[RicardoMarine]

20 minutes..... Good for you!
And you are doing this the correct way (in my book, anyway) by removing the transmission only for the bellows work.
Sounds like it went very well for you so far.

Best to not mix greases.............. they have a way of breaking down and liquifying if the two are not compatable.
Chemistry 102..............I missesd this in 101!

At a minimum, I'd replace the PDS and Bearing Crosses if no history of them being recently replaced. (see thread by member "1stboat" on his PDS bearing replacement)
These, along with main drive gear support bearings, don't lend themselves to an accurate or worth while hand assessment.
If you're going to check these, they require a visual and/or a dial indicator measurement.


You do not mention which engine!
With exception to the main drive gear bearings, the above are inexpensive.
270 will use the Spicer 5-1306X!
They are about $12-14 each if you know how to buy them.
PDS bearings..... same thing.... inexpensive if you buy from a bearing supplier!

Caution yourself when removing the four clamping collar bolts on the transmission. These bolts on the 270 are a wet area bolt.... they can be corroded.

If you are re-sealing the drive, post back for a few pointers if interested.

[jcampbell]

20 minutes..... Good for you!
And you are doing this the correct way (in my book, anyway) by removing the transmission only for the bellows work.
Sounds like it went very well for you so far.

Best to not mix greases.............. they have a way of breaking down and liquifying if the two are not compatable.
Chemistry 102..............I missesd this in 101!

At a minimum, I'd replace the PDS and Bearing Crosses if no history of them being recently replaced. (see thread by member "1stboat" on his PDS bearing replacement)
These, along with main drive gear support bearings, don't lend themselves to an accurate or worth while hand assessment.
If you're going to check these, they require a visual and/or a dial indicator measurement.


You do not mention which engine!
With exception to the main drive gear bearings, the above are inexpensive.
270 will use the Spicer 5-1306X!
They are about $12-14 each if you know how to buy them.
PDS bearings..... same thing.... inexpensive if you buy from a bearing supplier!

Caution yourself when removing the four clamping collar bolts on the transmission. These bolts on the 270 are a wet area bolt.... they can be corroded.

If you are re-sealing the drive, post back for a few pointers if interested.

Engine is a AQ125a

Bearing crosses are being replaced. I got a good deal on them the brand is nautic pro, while the originals were dry inside there was no scoring they also had no zirk fiting.

Previous owner had the PDS replaced before i bought it 3 years ago they did it when he did a bellows change, the seal in the housing had no rot on it, no scoring and no rips. The shaft coming out from the engine has no rust on it either and no play tight as can be.

Im assuming the 4 bolts your talking about were the ones holding the transmisson on, they were slightly corroded but nothing major a lil clean up and some never seize on it or whatever you use will help.

The 2 holes for the jack bolts made that helmut super easy to pop out.

I have all new o rings the big on adn the lil one, new ones for the dipstick and drain plug. A new water neck the hose is ok, just had some salt in it.

Im just going to be re-sealing the trans back to the intermediate, if memory serves i lightly coat it with aviation gasket sealer. And i assume the shim is the metal circle piece that sits in the big hole.

What do you reccomend for greasing the splines and the PDS bearing zirk??

As far as reasling the drive i would probably take that in and have it done.

[RicardoMarine]

Engine is a AQ125a

Im assuming the 4 bolts your talking about were the ones holding the transmisson on, they were slightly corroded but nothing major a lil clean up and some never seize on it or whatever you use will help.


Im just going to be re-sealing the trans back to the intermediate, if memory serves i lightly coat it with aviation gasket sealer. And i assume the shim is the metal circle piece that sits in the big hole.

What do you reccomend for greasing the splines and the PDS bearing zirk??

As far as reasling the drive i would probably take that in and have it done.

The four bolts mentioned would be the four socket head bolts that hold the front clamping collar to the main gear box.
This is how you access "bearing box" that houses the main drive gear!
This is removed in order to loosen and remove the universal drive shaft to do the bearing cross replacement!
This also gains you access to the main drive gear seal!
Two birds/one stone!

DO NOT USE the Automotive Version of Anti or Never-Sieze on anything below the water line. These products contain conductive materials!
It is a great product for some engine comonent fasteners.... but nothing on your out drive.
There is a Marine version of Anti/Never-Sieze that can be substituted.


As for the PDS grease..... see if you can idendify what is there now.

BTW..... and IMOO, as long you are this far into it, I'd knock the PDS seal out of your way!
A new PDS Yoke seal is cheap.
I'd then pump some grease into the F/C grease fitting and see if it comes through the aft-most side of the bearing.
(Some mechanics have been known to install a sealed bearing..... and not an "open" bearing! Same bearing (ext to p/n)... one is sealed/one not! )

[jcampbell]

I decided i will go ahead and pull the PDS seal and bearing and replace them or at least inspect them. Even though the seal looks to be in good pliable shape with no damage or rot. I found a bearing for fairly cheap 12 bucks on fleabay but it is not a sealed bearing. Which is preferred sealed or unsealed? Oh and its a vp bearing too.

Looks like the seal is going to cost more then the bearing. Size is listed at
Dimensions ( mm )
I.D. 35
O.D. 62
Width 7

Sound right?

Thanks

[RicardoMarine]

I decided i will go ahead and pull the PDS seal and bearing and replace them or at least inspect them. Even though the seal looks to be in good pliable shape with no damage or rot. I found a bearing for fairly cheap 12 bucks on fleabay but it is not a sealed bearing. Which is preferred sealed or unsealed? Oh and its a vp bearing too.

Looks like the seal is going to cost more then the bearing. Size is listed at
Dimensions ( mm )
I.D. 35
O.D. 62
Width 7 ................

V/P buys bearings like any other company.... you may open a Volvo Penta labeled box, and find one of several major brand name bearings.
Stay with any high qualtiy "electric motor" grade in brands other than Chinese, and you will be OK.

If you are going to the trouble to remove the PDS, you may as well simply replace this very inexpensive bearing. It is not worth it to try and get more life from one.... even if it may "feel" good.

Have them bring in a TCM or Temkin in a 35x62x7mm seal for you!
It should run you no more than $6-7-8. I think I pay $4 each!

Now, if your flywheel cover has the grease port for the PDS, then you MUST use an OPEN bearing........ Should be a 6206!
You must also Pre-Fill or Prime the grease cavity before installing the aft-most seal!

If NO grease port....., then the bearing must be a sealed bearing.... and you won't be greasing that one in the future.
It is the same bearing...... but will have an extended p/n.

.

[jcampbell]

Got the trans back the neighbor did a good job on it nice and clean and he didnt need to wire wheel it either. Engine cleaner and a rag cleaned it right up.

As far as the 6206 bearing from looking online not a lot of places carry the open bearing. My flywheel cover does have a zirk on it, it sits kinda off to the side a bit, meaning its not directly on top more starboard.

Whats the easiest way for pulling that seal out it looks like a pita to get out. As well as the snap rings i dont think there is enough room to get my snap ring pliars in there. If all else fails i will may take it to the dealer and have them pull it and put the new one in. There pretty good about charging shop rate billed on the 1/2 hour.

Also what can i do about the bit of corosion on the tip of the housing, its not bad and there still is quite a bit of metal before the lip for the bellows, jb weld maybe??

Thanks

Jason

[RicardoMarine]

Jason, I dont' have time this moment, but click on my user name... look at "see all posts"..... somewhere in the last several weeks this very topic came up.
I explained what to use on the snap rings, how to remove the aft-most seal, etc.
I'll see if I can update this tonight if you have no luck.

[1stboat]

Jason, I recently had to do the same to my seal and bearings (with the help of RicK). The seal isn't going to be much of an issue. Just drill a few holes close together and then use a screwdriver to cut through the seal and you'll be able to use a set of pliers to pull it out. The snap rings will be easy to reach once you get the seal out. You might have to get some of the grease out to see the other snap rings (I did).

[boatdoc55]

I've never seen an Aq125 without a zerk fitting on the flywheel cover!!! Are you sure there's not a brass cup looking affair on the housing? I also never use a sealed bearing in this area. If that's all you can get and you find the zerk, pop the metal sheilds out of the bearing and use it opened.

[jcampbell]

I'll take a pic but im sure its a zirk, it sits slightly towards starboard not directly on top. I heard later in the 125a series they added one to the housing instead of the cup.

Does anyone know the timken or whatever brand part number is for the seal. I got the bearing for 10bucks shipped.

Maybe rick will want to sell a seal??

Thanks for all your help not sure i could have figured all this out without your help

[RicardoMarine]

See post # 6 above.

TCM or Timken 35x62x7mm. Usually a non-stock item that takes a day or two to bring in. About $4-6 each.

Pre-fill the grease cavity until you see grease come through the ball cage.
Only then install the seals.
Glue the FWD seal in place... conventional direction.
AFT seal in the non-conventional direction because we want this seal to PUKE in the event of too much grease pressure.

Lube in the future with engine running!

[jcampbell]

Got all the parts in, found a good deal on the VP labled bearing and the seals i got from a company that sells machine parts for the food industry. Found my 11" needle nose to modify for snap ring removal.

I picked up a tube of permatex anti-seize for when it comes time to re assemble the drive and i was wondering if its ok to use on the bolts

heres the chemical list, Contains: Mineral Oil (64741-44-2), petroleum distillates (CAS 4742-52-2), Calcium Oxide (CAS 1305-78-8), aluminum (CCAS 7429-90-5), Graphite (CAS 7782-42-5), silica (CAS 14808-60-7).

I dont want to use the wrong stuff and cause it to eat the metal for the few times i go in salt water.

Funny the seals are SKF brand China or japan i forget which, and the bearing sold by VP is SKF USA

[RicardoMarine]

1. Got all the parts in, found a good deal on the VP labled bearing and the seals i got from a company that sells machine parts for the food industry. Found my 11" needle nose to modify for snap ring removal.
2. I picked up a tube of permatex anti-seize for when it comes time to re assemble the drive and i was wondering if its ok to use on the bolts heres the chemical list, Contains: Mineral Oil (64741-44-2), petroleum distillates (CAS 4742-52-2), Calcium Oxide (CAS 1305-78-8), aluminum (CCAS 7429-90-5), Graphite (CAS 7782-42-5), silica (CAS 14808-60-7). I dont want to use the wrong stuff and cause it to eat the metal for the few times i go in salt water.
3. Funny the seals are SKF brand China or japan i forget which, and the bearing sold by VP is SKF USA

2. No automotive anti-sieze on below the water line items. The conductive materials will play hell with you.
3. In post # 6 I mentioned to you that you get the exact same parts from a bearing supplier as you would from V/P, but for a fraction of the cost.............. BTW, none of these should be Chinese made!

[jcampbell]

Wow,

Got the seal out and the first snap ring, found a mixture of grease and some white crunchy stuff. From what i can see of the bearing it doesnt appear to have been corroded yet. White crunchy stuff was intermixed with the grease.

Any tricks on that last big snapring next to the bearing it is a bear.

[RicardoMarine]

...............
Any tricks on that last big snapring next to the bearing it is a bear.

Make sure that you have rounded the tips of the looooooong needle nose pliers, and make sure that you "tweak" the tips "inward" as to not slip from the snap ring eyelets! (you can do this over the anvil portion of your bench vice)

If the snap ring does not want to budge, tap the PDS forward (brass hammer only) as to set the bearing deeper. This may relax the tension on the snap ring some, and free it up for collapsing!

[jcampbell]

I can get the snap ring to budge and collapse but it slips out easy, i will try bending them down some and see if that helps. Will a rubber mallet be safe to use on the shaft if not i can go pick up a brass one. I'll give it a whack later today if the rain lets up

Thanks