Logo
FULL SITE MENU

Power Loss

S

Sportsman

Member
I have a Silverton 410SB with 8.2's. I had mechanic change fuel filters (cylinder and pancakes) on each engine a couple of months ago. Seemed to start easier and throttle response was better for first day, but returned quickly to acting the same. Still no high end rpms. 3400 and 3200 ish is all I can get at full throttle. Mech asked if I have had a tune up recently, and I haven't in 2 years. Always use Startron or Seafoam additive. I am trying to run as much fuel out before changing filters again (@ $500 a whack) service charge. Wish I could find someone to pump out my remaining 1/4 tank and start with an empty one.

Had mech out for test drive yesterday. Both sides run smooth at 2000 rpm. When pushed up, only getting about 3000 port, 3200 stbd, with rough running, cycling down about 500 rpm, then back up, and even sputtering (popping sound) in stbd.

Had computer hooked up while running, and monitor showed nothing abnormal (temps, manif press, etc.). No codes either. Mechanic said sounds like possibly fuel injectors, cross-firing, maybe even timing prob. Gonna start there first. Then, go for plugs, compression, etc.

Again, at end of season last year with lots of gas run through, fuel additives, sta-bil for winter, filters, etc. and to no avail, looking elsewhere from just a fuel prob. Suspect ethanol, though. Wanna fix, but as with everyone, don't wanna chase this around for a long time with big bills! Something just not right though....
 
Put an add in Craigs List locally for some one to remove your fuel. Free! Then start over with good stuff.

You might have the dreaded "third liquid" that develops when moisture and ethanol meet (the white crud in the below photo). It will not burn and makes running problems like you are experiencing.

Jeff
 
Last edited:
Put an add in Craigs List locally for some one to remove your fuel. Free! Then start over with good stuff.

You might have the dreaded "third liquid" that develops when moisture and ethanol meet (the white crud in the below photo, which is a thick liquid). It will not burn and makes running problems like you are experiencing.

Jeff
 
Thanks, Jeff-

I have thought of your suggestion several times after reading several forums, especially since I've burned down to 1/4 tank. 2 problems: I live in Dallas area on a lake, and just haven't found anyone in the area that does this kind of tank cleaning or fuel polishing like places on the east coast or FL with many boats. Other thing is getting access to something other than fill line on gunwale that feeds to tank. It's one big 450+ gal tank that you can get to aft side easily but not to the top of it.

Have read much on ethanol/water in gas problem, and think this could be a factor. However, is there no additive that I can use strongly during my last 1/4 tank before I go changing fuel filters again, new plugs, fresh gas, checking for clogged injectors?

Read the thread on here about ethanol and additives, and that a lot are made with lot of alcohol, like seafoam, that I have used it and sta-bil in other things for years and now read it may add to prob. Don't want to do all this and just return condition...

B
 
No known additive can make that white nightmare crud burn, so it has to come out. Have you tried advertising in Craigs List? You might be surprised how many people out there will do it for the free gas!

Jeff
 
Jeff's point is on target. I was surprised to read about how many people wanted to drain their tanks to remove tainted fuel and by placing that ad....within 24 hrs, most had excellent results.
 
Thanks, will check on getting gas removed. In the meantime....:


Drained the stbd racor on the eng yesterday in to a clear (empty :p) Captain Morgan bottle. Got about 6-8 oz. of gas with about 1/2 oz. water/gunk. Didn't get any change while running.

Pulled a couple of plug wires for kicks while down there. One was pretty rusted, another was clean. May be contributing to my symptoms.

Have decided to go ahead and change plugs and wires. Been a couple years anyway since plugs.

Any updated recommendations on plugs, wires?? Read a lot on here. Seems a few say NGK, some AC, etc.
Should also replace caps while at it? Figured wires at minimum with plugs.

2001 8.2's

:confused:
 
Last edited:
If you're going that route, you might as well change them but watch for that "anxious to get finished syndrome" where you wind up changing all kinds of stuff so that when you start it ... if it runs great you have no idea which part it was OR if it won't start, you have no idea which part it is.! It is nice to know what part created the problem and the fix.

Jeff: That picture of the gunk is really...uh...GUNKY !
 
That crap may have infiltrated your injectors. I would change the plugs and wires. If that doesn't help, I would dig deeper starting with a spark, compression and fuel pressure test.

That rusty plug is not a good sign.

Good luck,
Rick
 
Update, still not running right...

I had the injectors cleaned, changed plugs, still acting the same. He checked the fuel pressure. 32psi at idle. When pushed up the rpms to around 2000-2500 rpm in neutral, pressure dropped to around 6psi. I did not get to measure it under a load while running, only in slip.

I have run the tank down to about an 1/8-1/4, 2 times this season and brought it back to 1/2-3/4, treated with additives, then run it back down, so I'm beginning to think that water, etc in tank should have burned through.

Took it out yesterday, still acting as I originally described in one of my original posts below....Thoughts?


I have Crusader model cxlyhfl270m 8.2 mpi


I have a 2001 Silverton 410SB with 8.2's. I had mechanic change fuel filters (small eng mounted cylinder racors and pancakes) on each engine a couple of months ago. Seemed to start easier and throttle response was better for first day, but returned quickly to acting the same. Still no high end rpms. 3400 and 3200 ish is all I can get at full throttle. Always have used Startron, Seafoam, or Sta-bil additive.


Had mech out for test drive yesterday. Both sides run smooth at 2000 rpm. When pushed up to WOT, only getting about 3000 port, 3200 stbd, with rough running, cycling down about 500 rpm, then back up, and even sputtering (popping sound) in stbd.

Had computer hooked up while running, and monitor showed nothing abnormal (temps, manif press, etc.). No codes either. Mechanic said sounds like possibly fuel injectors, cross-firing, maybe even timing prob. Changed plugs, drained engine mounted racors, no change.

Again, at end of season last year with lots of gas run through all spring and summer, fuel additives, sta-bil for winter, filters, etc. and to no avail, looking elsewhere from just a fuel prob. Suspected ethanol, but can't imagine all I've done not helping.
 
Crusader rep I made email contact with said fuel pressure should be around 45.

I feel like I'm getting closer. Should I see the 45 at idle also? All the specs I see are at WOT.
*
I guess my next move is to put on a new fuel pump on one engine and see if it makes a difference.*
It definitely sounds like a fuel flow issue. Can't imagine both fuel pumps failing, but guess it could happen.

Next Is flow to the pumps being restricted somehow. Would think I've burned through water etc. Even blew back through fuel line to tank when we cleaned injectors to open up pickups if clogged.

Will keep plugging along. Input appreciated.
*
 
Why not swap the fuel pumps and see it the problem follows the pump. That would save you from investing in a new pump. I don't know if their easy to get at but I would go that route first
 
You need full pressure at WOT or the injectors won't work well (as you have noticed). Also, any water in the fuel isn't good for any of the fuel system components. As noted, the best fix is to remove all the liquid in the tank - there is no "magic in a bottle".
 
Thanks, will keep searching. I keep thinking common things for both engines like gas, but have gone through enough fresh gas, would think i would have burned though any problem gas picked up low in the tank from pickups...

The other things Ive chased around (like spark, poss fuel pump failure, etc) are indeed possible, but both engines are acting the same, really think it's something common, like fuel pressure issue.
 
fuel pressure for each engine is independent of the other. If they run off one tank, with independent pickups, the fuel in the tank and the vent line are about the end of the things in common.
 
Anyone know of a 3rd fuel filter up near injectors? All I've changed is the oberg hocky pucks and the small racors on the engine. Someone mentioned a third??
 
Bumping this back up. About to attack this again this year.

In talking with a different mechanic now, he is saying he wants to visit the fuel lines after hearing my story. Has anyone had any issues with the fuel lines breaking down because of ethanol? I have read that this can happen but haven't heard of this actually happening to anyone causing this much of a problem..? Thought fuel lines this new (2001) were made to use E-10..

Also, any more info on the small cyl fuel filter referenced in my last post?? Haven't visited it either.​
 
Shouldn't be a "small" filter up in the rail system...just the regulator. Is this an 8.1 or an 8.2? The early 8.1's had many subsystems that changed in the later years, the FCC in particular.

Ethanol and fuel lines - newer stuff should tolerate it. Doesn't mean yours didn't get a bad set. Sounds like the new mech will rule these out. You can always use a vacuum gauge to check for restrictions...'bout the only way to rule out a line that has interior deterioration. You can't see it 'happen'; only the likely spots when it gets disected.
 
Had somewhat of the same problem a while back in my crusader 350s. Took a 6 gal tank, hooked the line going to the tank to it and motors ran perfect. That eliminated all questions of fuel or engine problems. Turned out my problem was a check valve at the top of the tank. Not sure how you fuel system is set up but if you can run out of a tank of fresh fuel that would stop all the guess work and un-needed repairs. Just be careful with spilled fuel.
 
yep, exact same thing happened to me last year and it was the anti-siphon valve (2 engines, two tanks issue on one side). The valves can be cleaned but are only about $15.

I think you can test them by running with the gas cap fill off or just change both of them.

Bob
 
Last edited:
A bit of advice from someone who has been there -- engines do not serve as good waste disposal devices. Bad gasoline is waste on the boat. You need to get rid of it a quickly as possible. Interestingly one man's waste is another man's treasure. Someone else may want to take it as suggested above.

I fed the bad gasoline in my engine. I thought replacing spark plugs would be inexpensive and easy. As it turns out, that is the case but remanufacturing carburators is expensive. After awhile you become aware of the build up of carbon material in the intake manifold. It goes on and on. In addition to the cost, there is the boat downtime to consider.

Chuck Hanson
 
I have Crusader model cxlyhfl270m 8.2 mpi. Before they went to FCCs. Will revisit the anti-syphon valves sometime. Did try with gas cap off last year, no change. I wish replacing the as valves would be it!!!
 
Sorry for so long, boat has been out of water getting a bottom job, and buff. Back in water, mech came by other day and still thinks my fuel lines are hard, or oval in places. He wants to troubleshoot there or replace lines..

Numbers on fuel lines are: Type A1 SAE j1527/iso7840.

??

These later fuel lines should be ok with the e10..
 
Update Re: Power Loss. Possible fix!

As you can see, been working this issue off and on for past couple of years....

Started troubleshooting again this year, and decided to go for the fuel pumps. Changed out fuel pumps, regulators, new plugs again, and holding 4500 WOT, both motors! First time in 3 years I've been able to achieve this rpm. Worked fine down at 2000, but went rough at 2500, with 3200, tops at wot, with surging, and some backfiring.

Mech seems to best guess that possibly the boat sat for a year or 2 sometime in the past, and the fuel pumps degraded internally, maybe ethonol gas sitting. Higher rpms, the ecms were trying to moderate timimng and spark, without the proper fuel pressure getting to it.

Out yesterday, ran it at 4000 for a while, then back to 3000, for an hour, with no problems. Just glad to finally see results! Thanks for all of the suggestions. Hope thats it. One for the books-
 
Ok, not so fast.....

Need some input. As stated, been working on this one for a while. Had about 4 day trips, or 1/2 a tank of gas worth of smooth running, achieving 4500 rpm/side, steady. Started rough running again. Barely getting 1500 rpm, and hard to keep running. Had to start ea eng back and forth about 20 times to get back to slip last week. Put in 1/2 tank fresh gas, inspected fuel tank for water, changed filters, etc. no results. Don't think it's the gas.

After sitting several days, I put pressure guage on rail, and was getting a solid 37 psi or so at dock. So I took it out to see what happens under load. Starts out blasting 4000-4500 wot for about 5 minutes, then without touching anything, degrades to 3500, then 3000, then 2500, then very rough running, even to the point I can't keep em lit. Fuel pressure drops to barely 10 psi. Have to pump the throttles just to limp back in. Have taken out 2 times for trial, with same results.

So, with new fuel pumps and regulators, and good pressure in beginning, turning into a fuel starvation issue to the rail, considering fuel lines...?? Are fuel lines starting out good after sitting a few days, then collapsing after running, and staying there under pressure??

Considering now running a new fuel hose from tank to bypass the old line to troubleshoot. If I have to replace, will prob install new larger racors to bypass my small racors, and pancakes, while I'm at it, like Crusader recommends..

2001 8.2 Crusaders, with j1527/iso7840 fuel line that supposedly is ethanol rated.

Thoughts before I try this?? Thanks-
 
tank vent ok?

try an outboard tank with a long line as a temporary test setup, to replace the built in tank. out also be the pickup at the tank, the fuel line, a valve or fitting in the plumbing or the anti-syphon device....assuming you have changed ALL the filters upstream of the pump
 
BING, BING, BING !!!

if the engine is well behaved with the outboard tank, see if there is crud in the tank that covers the screen at the bottom of the pickup...much more likely than the hoses collapsing. Especially true is this issue impacts both engines and they share a single fuel tank...
 
I had a similar issue on a non-fuel injected engine. Turned out to be the screen in the bottom of the pickup tube in the fuel tank. It was sucking up what looked like dust that you would see under the bed but was in the fuel tank. I had to remove the tank and clean it out and also remove the screen in the pick up tube. I let the fuel filter clean the fuel.
 
fuel pres. should always be there.ouyboard tank is the way to go thats one of the first things we do. if you can disconect fuel line put funnel in end.fill with fuel if it stays valve is good.still might want to replace could be sticking.
 
Back
Top