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Engine holder problem anyone else

"I run a DF 70 so had to take

"I run a DF 70 so had to take a look. I had some
salt build up.When I scraped it all away it didn't show any damage. Sprayed some metal
protection and will keep an eye on it.I talked to Brown's Point and they had not seen any problems about it.Called another Suzuki parts
repair shop, said had seen a couple over the
years.Talked to one more Suzuki dealer that
sells a lot of 70's Again same thing haden't
had one.Just have to keep an eye on it I guess
and pray."
 
"Rick, what you thought was sa

"Rick, what you thought was salt was really aluminum oxide, i.e. corrosion. Salt is so soluable in water it will dissolve and wash away in the slightest amount of water. There is no such thing as salt build up inside of an engine, although the snake oil salesmen would like to sell you something to eliminate it.

I have just replaced my worn out 23 year old Evinrude 140 with a DF 140. The Rude was used only in saltwater and was flushed on a hose after every use, and allowed to drain while vertical. I wore the rings out but corrosion was never a problem. I will do the same with the Suzuki. Some surface corrosion of the water passages is not a problem, but corrosion that eats through stuff, or blocks flow through small passages is a problem. Flush the engine like it is a religion."
 
"Gary,
Your weld job looks go

"Gary,
Your weld job looks good, did you do anything about metal filings falling in the motor?
About how many hours did your engine have on it when you noticed the plug rusting?
About how many hours were in salt water?
The reason I ask is that my engines are also 2005s. They spent the first 4 years (225 hours) in Beaufort, SC, all salt water.
I have had them for a year in the Columbia, SC area, 11 months fresh water, 1 month salt water.
I was not able to remove my plug with an allen wrench on Saturday.
I think I am going to let mine ride this season unless I see the plug rusting."
 
Response from Better Business Bureau. Suzuki will not even respond to them:

American Suzuki Motor Corporation-Outboard
3251 East Imperial Highway
Brea, CA 92821-1100
Contact:
Phone: (714) 996-7040


In the absence of any response from the company this complaint despite our two requests to them, we are closing our file on this complaint.

This unanswered complaint will become part of the information we report to the public on this company for the next three years. Should any government agency request our files on this company, your complaint will also be included.

If you have settled this complaint directly with the company, would you please email us to let us know that, as well as any other comments you might have. Your help in doing this is important to ensure that our report to the public on this company is accurate.

Thank you for using the Better Business Bureau
 
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cev1206, when I drilled out the plug I used a 1" hole saw the plug fit inside the hole saw therefor the metal filings were aluminum very little got in the motor. At 260 hours I noticed plugs rusting all 260 hours in saltwater.
 
We have 2004 Suzuki 140 outboards on a boat that is kept in the water full time in Hawaii. The engines only have 200 hours on them and are well maintained. We recently discovered an exhaust leak in the port side engine. Upon further discovery, we found the engine block and the engine holder exhaust ports to be severely corroded. In one place there is a small hole all the way through the cast aluminum part. I suspect the problem is on both engines. Strange thing is my mechanic says that he has never seen corrosion in the exhaust ports. We would be happy to participate in any action that would force Suzuki to stand behind their product.
 
These df90/115/140, all have the same corrosion problem in the lower block exhaust outlet, engine hanger, oil pan. If they are used in salt water, I have seen failures starting at the hanger in as little as 750 hours. I have seen engines fail in the block at 1500 hours. The block failures cause water to be sucked back into the cylinders, which causes steam and
destruction of the rings, and compression. The plug issue has been adressed in the service
manuals, in the update section in the rear. These engines are fairly easy to work on, the
bad news is they are not rebuidable in the normal sense.
 
Re: "Here is the link to the Bette

jeep150 said:
"Here is the link to the Better Business Bureau to file a complaint. Everyone should fill this out and let them know that Suzuki has sold a defective product and is not recalling it or dealing with it:
http://www.la.bbb.org/ComplaintInformation.aspx"
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link and I just filed a complain against Suzuki.

I have 2002 DF140 (bought it brand new in 2002) and only 1000 hours over 10 yrs period. In 2008 the motor began to show exact symption like many had described in this thread. Problem at idle speed and check engine light. Early this year it blew off the exhaused plug, burned off the electrical wire harness and fouling up the ECU (who in the right mind of design would put important sensor and electrical wires right outside of the exhaused plug). Now I am stuck with decision of 4K cost of fixing the motor (new ECU, wire harness, cylinder housing and labor) or we found a NIB 2004 DF140 for 7K but likely will have same corrsion problem within 3-4 yrs???
 
Re: "Gary,
Your weld job looks go

If you fixed the exhaust plug, corrosion may spread to different places and may cause further damage to the piston and cylinder which is even worst. My mechanic has a welder built another thicker alumnimum plug to cover the corroded area with reinforced bar from iinside the hole. After 20 hours usage, the motor seems to work OK then the hot air/steam and high pressure exahsue broke the reinforce bar and blew the new plug away burning my sensor/wire harness, fouling MAP sensor and ECU.... Talked about disaster that I am having.
 
Re: "I sent a certified letter als

Same problem on my 2003 df90 outboard. The redundant O2 port has corroded, exhaust gases get into the air intake and choke the engine off. The hot exhaust melted through my wiring loom. The mechanic tried to "weld" using filler the first hole but this has not held. I think his mistake was a) not removing the whole steel plug as this means electrolysis still happens and b) not removing paint from aluminium so insufficient key. I have taken it out and wodged a squash ball sized lump of alu putty in the hole and going to test it today. Alternative is to replace the block which is a major strip down and rebuild and I will lose the rest of the summer as well as last summer. I agree this is a design fault and the more people who report it to suzuki the better.
 
Re: "I sent a certified letter als

I'd take it to a machine shop that can do aluminum welding, they should have no problem filling that hole.
 
I have just bought an aluminum plug to replace the steel plug on my 2005 DF140. I have tried to remove the old plug with a buddy using an impact wrench at the same time as I tried to knock it around using a cold chisel. It won't budge. I will drill it out when the weather gets cooler. www.goldplug.com has the plug for about $20 including shipping.
 
Re: "I sent a certified letter als

I have successfully repaired this problem with £10 of aluminium putty, I chipped out the rotten port and scored the area to make a key then pushed in a squash ball size ball of putty into the hole and formed a little mushroom patting it down with wet hands. has cured to an exhaust tight seal and now she runs sweet as a nut - great engine otherwise if not for this catastrophic design fault!!
 
suzuki as a company probably will do everything they can to avoid an arbitration with the bbb because once they agree to it then they are bound by what the arbitrator decides....the best way to force them to agree to it is thru a complaint against one of their dealers....then the dealer will force the company to send in a person to support him in the process...the problem with that working is the fact that it takes time(years probably) for the problem to show up...the only things that really happens is if the company refuses to arbitrate the the bbb has the information and anyone checking with them before buying the product will be given the information..not a hell of a lot of help for the guy out there that already has the problem on only one motor....someone who buys a lot of these motors may force his way thru a dealer and get relief but here again the other owners will probably never hear about it and they will fix his motors only...catch 22....evinrude had a choice years ago to honor a bad motor and go broke or let customers eat the problem and stay in business....they fixed the motors..enough said..
 
NELBUR:

My 03 Johnson 140 looks brand new on outside. I am going to attempt to unscrew and replace with aluminum. Could you provide part number from WWW.GOLDPLUG?? (or LINK)

Thank you,[

MikeQUOTE=nelbur;396199]I have just bought an aluminum plug to replace the steel plug on my 2005 DF140. I have tried to remove the old plug with a buddy using an impact wrench at the same time as I tried to knock it around using a cold chisel. It won't budge. I will drill it out when the weather gets cooler. www.goldplug.com has the plug for about $20 including shipping.[/QUOTE]
 
I don't have the part number handy, but I went to www.goldplug.com and asked them by e-mail for the part number. They were very helpful and shipped quickly. I have not yet been able to remove the old plug. I tried using an impact wrench and tapping it around with a cold chisel at the same time, but it would not budge. I wonder if that "freeze spray" for sticking bolts would work? I might try it, but I will remove it when I have the time to drill it out.
 
Nelbur: Link Greyduk sent looks right huh?

Also did you try heating aluminum casting while cooling plug (or vice versa)..?

Can you access the plug without removal of lower cover?
 
BN, That Ebay link is from Goldplug. I just happened to have it saved on my computer. You can either get it from Ebay or Goldplug. It is the same item.
 
I drilled out the old exhaust plug on my '05 DF 140 today. I had tried every technique I could think of to unscrew the plug without success, so I drilled with a 1/2" bit until the bit bottomed out at the end of the hex hole in the plug. Since twist drills work best when the center portion of the bit runs in a pre-drilled hole, I drilled through the last of the plug with a 1/4" bit, and then went back to the 1/2" bit to finish up. To make sure I didn't drill too deep, I slipped a piece of plastic pipe over the bit, that left only about 1" of the bit sticking out.

Once I had the plug drilled, I used a jig saw hacksaw or metal cutting blade in a Visegrip to cut slots towards the threads in three places. These were less than 1/16" deep. The idea was to weaken the remainder of the plug so I could get it to shrink enough so I could unscrew it. I used a large nail set, and hammered the remainder of the plugs head toward the drilled out center. I buggered the head up pretty good. Fortunately the washer protected the sealing surface on the engine holder. After awhile I was able to use the nail set to knock the plug around and unscrew it. I found the Goldplug aluminum plug to fit perfectly. I brushed out the threads in the engine holder using a cleaning wire brush for a 20 gauge shotgun, and applied a lot of Evenrude/Johnson gasket compound to the threads in the engine holder, and the entire aluminum plug, including both sides of the sealing washer. This is very similar to the gasket compounds sold by Mercury and by Perfect Seal. I normally put this type of sealer on all threads that need an anti-seize, which is just about all bolts on an outboard. It also seems to protect aluminum from corrosion better than anything I have used over the years.

I think any skilled DIYer could do this, but a new DIYer might run into trouble, because you are removing a steel plug from a soft aluminum, and there is some danger that you could bung up the seal area or the threads in the aluminum engine holder. The following pictures might help show what I did.
Exhaust Plug Repair 004 (Small).jpgExhaust Plug Repair 005 (Small).jpgExhaust Plug Repair (Small).jpg
 
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I was thinking maybe getting a nut welded on to the steel plug and then using a long bar to unscrew it.... Hoping the weld will be long enough to hold while turning the plug....
 
UPDATE 2014

If your reading this chances are its to late and you have problems. Good info below and please if you see others with Suzuki DFs at the launch ramp tell them about this so they dont learn.....the hard way

As more people are buying Zukes ( Suzuki) this thread will continue to be a good resource.
I have 2 115DFs on my 2006 inflatable.

If you have the steel plug you NEED TO REMOVE IT. Cause if you dont, regardless fresh or salt water, it will cause failure. I had seen mine rusty looking on one motor and thought someday I should fix that. To late. Many times when the corrosion eats thru the aluminum it ends up BURNING UP the wire harness/computer above the plug because hot exhaust is not torching everything under the cowling as your cruising along the water. ( Plug is located right below the ECM computer on the left/port side of engine. $$$ 2000 just for that etc etc

Hope this info helps.

I found a awesome thread LINK BELOW that explains symptoms and a weld repair with photos. Check it out below. I did the weld repair at a welding shop in Laguna Hills Ca called Nine Iron Design and so far, so good. On my second engine I used a magnet and sure enough the other plug is also steel. But did not change it in time, few days after one motor plug let go, the other now has lots of water in the motor oil. Possible engine holder failure. There are 3 steel plugs on the left side of engine.

. Two are in the engine crank case with oil behind them (not a factor) , the ONE YOU WANT TO REPLACE is the one above the water flush below the ECM computer on left side ( see link below great pictures), it is a steel plug and behind that plug is exhaust and water. This plug MUST come out. DONT FORCE IT.
You will either strip it or break the case. I would not even try taking it out, heat the Alum first, or you could strip the allen hole What I did was use a SMALL TORCH that I bought to heat shrink wrap from auto parts store and heat the area around the plug).

Very small torch worked awesome. Heat the aluminum, it will expand. Dont burn wires or anything, just have the blue flame tip in circles around the plug heating the aluminum ( dont waste time heating plug, heat the alum in circles directly around the plug.)The alum will expand and should release the plug as you turn it. Then attempt to remove the plug SLOWLY turn it should break free. DONT FORCE IT. DONT USE BIG TORCH.

Once I got the alum hot enough it worked. But then it started to get hard to turn again DONT FORCE IT. I heated the alum again and the plug came the rest of the way out CLEAN. (keep your dog or kids way the plug will be scolding hot, i dropped it in a thing of water totally suck to drop it on the ground and burn your dogs nose, your foot or what ever. Careful)

The steel plug was totaly corroded on the inside. This motor has WATER IN THE OIL and all indicators is that the engine holder has corroded. Plug looked fine on the outside no corrosion, paint looked brand new over the plug, but totally corroded inside. There is a guy on ebay who makes alum plugs with alum washer ( DO NOT USE STEEL WASHER) the site is http://goldplug.com/suzuki-df/2014/suzuki-df-motor-owners-find-our-fix-here/ $18 including shipping. I bought it from him thru Ebay. GET IT DONE. There is internal corrosion going on that will destroy your motor. I SALT AWAY flushed my motors after EVERY USE and still this happened. If you think for some reason your motor wont have this problem, think again. And when it does it will totally suck.

Here is the awesome repair link, i had the same symptoms mentioned in this article, running rough, check engine light on. Pull cowling off motor runs fine. Then I saw the corrosion with exhaust and salt water blowing into the engine compartment. Good thing I did not ignore this, the exhaust gets so hot it melts the computer that is right above the steel plug. BIG BUCKS. I agree Suzuki should realize this defect but these threads date back to 2002 I wont hold my breath. These have been super good quit dependable motors. This is the weak link. Fix it before it fixes you.

read this awesome article

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/395845-suzuki-df140-engine-holder-corrosion-fix.html

gold plug site ( i wish I would of found him sooner)

http://goldplug.com/suzuki-df/2014/suzuki-df-motor-owners-find-our-fix-here/

Aloha
DolphinDog
www.theDolphinBoat.com
 
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