Purchase opinion

"Hi all new to the board.

I

"Hi all new to the board.

I have been looking recently for a well priced boat and have come across a few I really like the condition of the boat and the layout is what I am looking for but they have an OMC drive in them.

I have since found another one 92 with a 7.4L, my question is should anything OMC be stayed away from or are parts available for this power package including the motor, what is the going concensus?

Thanks
Mat"

"Unless you want to stress ove

"Unless you want to stress over parts replacement and excessive cost, run away quickly and do not look back, just my opinion"

"Sorry to burst your bubble Cu

"Sorry to burst your bubble Curt, but I've had nothing but GOOD luck with mine.I've had the Boat 3 years, and had ZERO problems with my OMC Drive....and it's 40 + years old."

"Scott, I'd have to sugges

"Scott, I'd have to suggest that you have been one of the lucky ones! You also have a Stringer Drive (1967 Chris-Craft Corsair w/ 225 ci Buick)

I too would not purchase one with OMC.... especially one with the 460 "King Cobra" drive.
I'd not consider this unless fitted with the "Cobra", the boat itself was very clean, the price was exceptionally good......., and more importantly if budget would allow for a Volvo Penta SX or DP S conversion should you have trouble down the road.
The K/C is one that I'd definitely steer clear of.

That being said.... some of these OMC boats are among the more difficult to sell. This may be in your favor.... especially right now!

Your call!

."

"Yes, I guess I have been luck

"Yes, I guess I have been lucky. Mine is actually a 66 20 foot Sea V Transdrive. Badged as a Corsair.
I DO need another block, though. Mines not done yet, but " down the road" as you say...lol.Don't even know how many hours are on the Engine.
I've ironed out SO many bugs ....this year, it's new Fuel Pump, and risers boiled and repaired (ice cracked). Next year, I'll blow out the Risers with the Shop Vac, as well as the Block. It worked GREAT."

"I have a 1987 OMC King Cobra

"I have a 1987 OMC King Cobra with the 7.5 (460)
I had a lot of problems early on with the outdrive, the clutch dog was slipping which caused the upper drive to break and 2,700 dollars later it was fixed. I am in the process for the 2nd time in two years replacing my gimbal and universals due to a leak at the bellows. I made the mistake of storing my boat in the water with the drive in the up position, which caused it to leak, never did find a hole in the bellows and now I can't get the drive off to fix it. I still have a few ideas to get it off as soon as I get more time off to work on it. I just hate the difficulty and cost of replacement. I wish it was a Mercury Outdrive. I see them for sale all the time for half the price. I would never again buy an OMC!!"

I suspect the 1992 7.4 would b

I suspect the 1992 7.4 would be a 454 Chev.
1992 would still be OMC KC drive? or might it be a Volvo?
makes a big difference ... got any pics or model numbers?

"Curt, I have a forum cyber fr

"Curt, I have a forum cyber friend who had a 460 KC in a 28 footer!
He asked if he could do the Volvo Penta DP S swap. He was told that a complete change out was necessary as this KC drive is unlike the Cobra.
(a Cobra accepts the SX and DP S drive with the use of a kit)

He then asked about an AQ series conversion, and again, was told that this would not work.

This is where I stepped in!
(I am pretty much AQ series exclusive!)

I walked him through the procedure and helped him find the necessary parts... all of which are available!

A few months later (at his own pace) his boat emerged with a fresh Ford 460 and a Volvo Penta DP C1 drive behind it.
A conversion that he was told could not be done!
The guy's name is Wayne, and he is very pleased with his boat now.

Now, the Volvo Penta Duo Prop has a pattented propeller design that M/C can not yet use.
It puts this drive at an advantage at speeds below 40ish MPH.
The Merc BIII does perform better at speeds above this.... apparently not below!

The AQ series is a far better drive than the newer Volvo Penta drives, IMO.
I'm sure that this is debateable by some!

And for these reasons I'd prefer this over the newer:
**Larger foot print against the structural transom core....
**No Gimbal affair
**No engine alignment after initial install
**No Rubber Hub drive coupler..... (Borg Warner spline, all steel drive coupler)
**Better steering geometry with the main suspension fork/pivot tube type system, IMO.
**Easy addition of the Duo Prop lower uint to any 250/270/275/280/290 SP and so on.
**Very easy drive bellows replacement... (no Gimbal Bell to fight)
**No thru prop exhaust!
**Not dependant on exhaust back-flow prevention flapper being at/on the bellows or in Y pipe connecting area.


So, if you have another upcoming KC expense, I'd highly recommend that you cut your losses and do a conversion.
You can sometimes buy a damaged hull with all parts needed for a fraction of new!

The Volvo Penta DP alone is worth the effort.
I know this to be true first hand from my ownership of DP boats.
I went from Single prop drives to Duo Prop drives on my current twin engine 28 ft SND F/B boat.
What a diff!

."

"Rick....don't want to ste

"Rick....don't want to step on your toes as you have plenty of good advice and experience but the OP has really identified one as a 92 7.4 which makes it the 454 not the 460. Let's not scare the heck out of him about the 460. I know for sure that the 460 was only used in 1990 with the KC (cone clutch), that one I would stay clear of for sure due to ignition (Spitfire) problems and manifolds. The 7.4 is easier to deal with and parts are not as big a problem yet and the Volvo conversion is easier to do down the road. I'm not suggesting he go either way only that we provide hime with as much correct info as we can give so he can make a well informed decision."

"Thanks for all the info lots

"Thanks for all the info lots of experiance here. The unit is the 454, I have decided to not go near a 460. I have done some research on this but some of the info seems confusing. Like I have read that the 454 uses the newer clutch like the Bravo but I seem to find conflicting info on this, as well a KC can be just a Cobra if it has thru hull as they badged the Cobra as a King if it had thru hull?
I have not looked at the boat yet as we are in the email stage and I have some more questions about it yet so I do not have any serial numbers yet. I like the Volvo stuff, the conversion seems pricey. SEI has a Cobra conversion package at a nice price but it does not say anything about a KC and it is only good to 300hp as far as I read.

I am just wondering if they can be kept going without conversions and if the aftermarket parts are there? If the 454 still has parts available, seems like the concensus is to stay away. Most of the boats I have looked at seems when I like the boat and it is in nice shape it turns out to have OMC or the years that Merc used a 454 with an Alpha.

Any more info would be appreciated.
Thanks again for the info I am learning some things.

Mat"

"OMC did a great job at confus

"OMC did a great job at confusing the hell out of people when they started throwing the term "King Cobra" around as it could mean many things. I have a pair of 1989 460's and they call it a King Cobra but it's really an oversized dog/clutch drive that was beefed up to go over the 300 hp range. In 1990 they did put the cone clutch drive on the 460 and 454 and then in 91 they dropped the 460. Lots of guys have come across boats 10 to 20 yrs old in great shape and the right price except they are OMC powered. The transom hole for a reg Cobra fits a Mercruiser (Alpha), needs a couple of more holes for the Bravo, so maybe with a little stringer work you can replace the engine/drive package?

So for the faint of heart I would say to stay away from OMC, for those a little more adventurous I would say as you come across a potential one do your homework so you can make the best decision possible....good luck!"

Well I have done my share of b

Well I have done my share of boat work in the past. Converted a 25' jet to merc IO with a donor boat and had to marine ply the transom and do some stringer work. The problem is I was a lot younger and a lot less busy then. By the time you factor in the cost to remove and replace with a bravo drive and trans assembly then the boat would have to be a give away or the deal of a century.

Seems like trying to keep the OMC stuff going is a loosing battle from what I am reading. You would have thought some company would have picked up doing aftermarket parts at a reasonable cost as there seems to be so many around?

Mat

"If not mistaken, in 92 OMC &#

"If not mistaken, in 92 OMC 'bought' the inboards and drives from Volvo! That should make it an SX drive and all parts available from VP.
Just get a spare part catalogue for the same model from VP, and you should be safe!
The only difference in the drive might be the prop shaft, where at the beginning of the SX OMC used OMC splines and Volvo used VP splines. Just different hubs in the same prop!"

"Is there any way to verify if

"Is there any way to verify if the drive is a VP designed unit through serial numbers or anything? I have also read conflicting reports about that as well, some say 92 some 93.

Mat"

"Volvo bought the OMC inboard

"Volvo bought the OMC inboard factory including the most!
All cone-clutch drives are more or less VP 'designed', but only the old 200-290 are the 'original' VP bulletproof designs.
The only 'pure' OMC cone clutch is the 'hump back' King Cobra that came with the 3.2 Steyer diesel and the 460. (The old 460 King had clutch-dog drives)"

"Bob, Oh no..... you are not s

"Bob, Oh no..... you are not stepping on my toes at all. I'm a big boy and I appreciate that!
Pound per pound, the BBC 454 will outperform the BBF 460 unless extensive cylinder head work is done. Add to this the availability of exhaust manifolds and drive couplers, and you have an expensive scenario. IMO.

I still say that the KC drive is one to steer clear of, regardless of a 454 or 460.

And just to be clear...... an additional advantage of the swap to Volvo is the future adaptation of the Duo Prop lower unit.
I can't say enough good about the DP!

The performance of a 454/460 w/ a single prop drive can easily be accomplished with a SBC 383 and a Volvo Penta Duo Prop drive..... and you've shaved almost 240 pounds from the stern!
Add to this:
**No ESA ever again!
**Cone Clutch gear engagement!
**No parts availability issues!
It would appear to be a win win, IMO!

So Matt, whether BBC 454 or BBF 460, ya still have a KC drive!
That is an issue along with BBF parts!

And to answer your question on OMC parts..... the parts for the Cobra are still readily available as "after-market"..... it's the King that is the problem.

Again, I'm not suggesting RUN, but I am suggesting that you consider all of this!
And consider the cost of an upgrade should you have issues!
I frequent a forum where this very topic has cropped up many many times.
And constant ESA issues that the average Joe just can't figure out!
Stuart Hastings comes to mind!


Mat, in 1993 Volvo Penta owned and operated the company. The "Cobra" name did appear on the first few models, if memory serves me.
The KC was not continued.

Morten, while the post '92 Cobra did show the influence of V/P..... the drive parts do not interchange to my knowledge! (V/P lower will not bolt on to a Cobra upper, for example)
And don't forget the successor to the 290.... the SP C and DP C, etc.
These are still part of the AQ series family, and the best ones yet, IMO.

Again, Mat..... if you can pick up one of these for change on the dollar, and if budget allows for future issues, I see no foul!
Just don't throw money at the OMC drives. Go to the Volvo Penta and end the issues.
You do not necessarily need to purchase new.... there are lots of good used V/P drives from damaged boats out there.

Oh, and my best advice yet;
Boats are never investments, Mat...... they are always expenses. We just use it up in the form of enjoyment.
I am very upside down in my restored 28 foot SDN F/B boat (new engines/new DP drives, etc).... and I do not mind at all! It serves me well, it will run with the best of them.... and I'll use it up!

."

"Morten, while the post '9

"Morten, while the post '92 Cobra did show the influence of V/P..... the drive parts do not interchange to my knowledge! (V/P lower will not bolt on to a Cobra upper, for example)
If you are talking 280/90 DP lower, no.
To me it is more of a priority issue. If speed above 30+ knots, I would not go for a VP-DP (280/290) drive. However if prop torque and economy in the below 30 knots segment is the top priority, I doubt you find anything better and more reliable than the 'old' VP drives.
But things breaks down according to Murphy's law when you most need it, so it may even be which brands your local mechanic deals that finally decides!"

"Morten, I am talking about th

"Morten, I am talking about the Cobra lower unit being replaced with a Volvo Penta SX or DP S lower unit, for example.
To my knowledge, these will not interchange. The SX and DP S requires upper unit gear changing... I.E., cone clutch!

And no.... I must also consider that the SP C and DP C, DP E, etc. series are also part of this AQ series drives.
These offer the large driven gear bearings, no reverse latch system and the heavy suspension fork. All lower units do interchange through this model, BTW. (250 thru the C and E, etc)

Agreed that location may/should be a factor. I looked to see where Mat is, but to no avail!
But also consider how user friendly these drives are to work on! They are among the easiest of any to work on!

."

Looks as the 7.4 first came in

Looks as the 7.4 first came in 'Volvo' version (SX)but OMC name in 96.
Any older had the old 'hump-back' OMC king Cobra drive.

"Sorry about that, my location

"Sorry about that, my location is ontario Canada, great lakes. Lots of boats and parts around here. I have worked on boats in the past quite a bit, just been out of the boat thing for a while now. Even worked on the old OMC electric shift stuff, never touched a VP though or a Cobra. The more I read the worse it seems to get.

I was looking for something I could put a little work into as I use to enjoy it but was trying to stay away from conversions hence the question about OMC parts and such.

I may go look at a bank repo that needs some work at least it is Merc, too bad it has old Zebra mussels left on all over it, probably ruined the gel.

Mat"

"Well I did get confirmation t

"Well I did get confirmation that the drive package is the 92 454 KC drive. The price was attractive but I doubt attractive enough to warrant a drive conversion if it can even be done with the KC. Not really looking for an investment all my prior boats have been holes in the water you pour money into, just not looking to pour more money in than is needed.

Thanks for all the info.
Mat"

"Mat, you don't want a Mer

"Mat, you don't want a Merc Alpha drive either! These have dog clutch shifting and a S/A system very similar to the Cobra drive!
You'll want to get away from this old school technology!

BTW, the V/P conversion for a Cobra is easy.

Also, as long as we're talking here.... the Volvo drives do not usually develop issue as often as the others, therefore the used parts market is generally soft comparatively.... with exception to the Duo Prop items (these dang near sell themselves)

I have a friend in the used marine parts biz.
He owns a salvage yard.
His bread-n-butter comes in the form of new/used OMC and M/C parts sales respectively.
That speaks loudly.... and we are in Volvo Penta country where I am!

."

"I figured at least with an Al

"I figured at least with an Alpha parts should be easy to come by. This seems to be M/C country here as there are plenty around mind you I know VP is a very good drive. When my mother bought her boat new I told her to purchase VP.

So for argument sake say I have a complete lapse in judgement and buy this thing, what is an approx cost to convert a KC (I assume the 92 454 is a cone clutch KC) over to VP if (or should I say when) the drive goes to the point that repair is not cost effective?

Mat"

"This is one place that will w

"This is one place that will work with you to convert a Cobra to VP

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/cobraconversion.htm"

"As a omc stringer owner, i wo

"As a omc stringer owner, i would say don't do it.

This is my own opinion, why look for a headache when owning a boat is a expensive proposition to begin with.

My recommendation for a first boat is 19-21 footer with a 5.7. And that is really too large for a first boat.

A 17 footer with a 3.0 cheap on gas, merc drive, newest one you can afford. If you boat in saltwater.

Fresh water lake used my first, that i still have never kissed saltwater is a 15' open bow trihull, arrow glass couger 1976 with a evinrude 70 hp outboard 35 mph on the water.

My kids still love that boat used only 1-2 weeks a year, pulling the tube and fishing.

Good luck !"

"At this point I am going to s

"At this point I am going to stay away.

Mind you this would be far from my first boat, I have been on boats most of my life and did most my own work. Have not owned one in 10 years but had many before that. Going to keep looking at this point see if can find something better suited as I do not want a headache either.

Thanks for all the help.
I have learned some things.
Mat"