Joeor anyone more problems 71 Johnson 60HP

" Took my boat out to the lake

" Took my boat out to the lake for the first time today. When I put it in the water, the engine revs just fine, but the prop will not turn in either forward or reverse. The engine does not stall or bag down, it is as if something is not engaging in the lower unit.

When the motor is not in the water, the prop shaft seems to turn just fine.

Any suggestions on where to start checking on this problem?? "

" James..... out of the water,

" James..... out of the water, does the lower unit shift into both forward and reverse ie... does the prop turn in both directions? If so, I would suspect that the propeller hub is slipping. The prop consist of a bronze hub which is vulcanized to the aluminum or steel prop. When the vulcanize (rubber) fails, the hub turns but due to the water resistance, the prop does not. Try another prop to see if that cures your problem. (Joe - 30+ years with OMC) "

" Yes, the prop does turn in b

" Yes, the prop does turn in both directions when it is out of the water.

One more question. I grabbed the prop and turned it by hand while it was attached to the motor. When i turned it, there was quite a bit of resistance, and the whole saft ended up turning. The outer propeller did not slip on the hub. I do not know if there is enough resistance from the engine compression to simulate the resistance from the water. Short of getting a new propellor, is there any way to test for sure that the vulcanizing is the problem?
Sorry to be a pain, but I would hate to invest in a new propeller without being sure that is the problem.

Thanks for all the help. "

" James.... You're not a p

" James.... You're not a pain, you're a guy with a problem and that's what we're here for. Your engine, when it's not running, is in forward gear due to a spring loaded clutch shifter dog. When you grabbed the prop to turn it, the resistance you felt at first was the water pump impeller being turned, possibly even being forced to turn backwards, then of course you were moving the pistons and encountering compression. Many props that slip while running will not slip with the test you did as there would not be enough resistance met unless the prop was completely shot. A good test for finding a slipping prop is to put a 2x4 between the prop and the cavitation plate (the plate just above the prop). That'll jam the prop as it attempts to turn. Remove the spark plugs for safety. Now, with a breaker bar and socket (or some suitable wrench) on the flywheel nut, turn the engine in the same direction as when it's running (clockwise when looking directly down at the flywheel nut. If you can turn the engine over a few revolutions while that prop's jammed, then obviously the prop hub is slipping.... you may have to exert quite a bit of pressure on that wrench. Hope this helps you out. (Joe - 30+ years with OMC) "

" Joe thanks for the advice. I

" Joe thanks for the advice. Instead of trying to test it myself, I took the prop down to a local prop repair service, and they tested it and said that it is not a spun hub, and that it is probably a problem with the lower unit. Do you have any other suggestions that it might be? "

" James..... That is a strange

" James..... That is a strange one. If the unit shifts into forward and reverse, turning the prop strong in both directions, there is no reason that I can think of, right off hand, why it would not shift likewise in the water. You say that when you turned the prop by hand, you felt resistance..... when turning the prop, did the flywheel turn? If not, I'd suspect stripped driveshaft splines although that's a rarity anymore. If the flywheel does turn, then the splines should be fine. At this point, I don't know what to tell you my friend. Sure wish I had that engine sitting in front of me. Unless you've left some clue out, I cannot visualize why the problem exists. Although your prop's been tested by a pro, do the test I mentioned with the 2x4. The results of that test may reveal a hidden problem. Let me know what happens.

Joe "

" Joe, THe flywheel does turn

" Joe, THe flywheel does turn when I turn the prop by hand.
Also, one more thing, when I first took the boat out on the water, at first it seemed like it would shift breifly into gear at real low rpms, but would start slipping if i tried to rev it up at all. then after the first few minute, it would not shift into gear at any RPMs. I don't know if this helps, and I did not mention it sooner, because it seemed like it would fit in with the hub problem you mentioned. "

" OK just did the 2x4 test.

" OK just did the 2x4 test. When I crank on the flywheel, the prop starts to turn, but as soon as it hits the board, the whole prop shaft stops turning. When I turn less then a full revolution of the flywheel pressure of the prop agaist the wood backs off, as if somthing inside slips, then moves until it engages again, slips, and so on and so on....

I was able to grab the prop by hand while turning the flywheel, and it does not take very much pressure to stop the prop and shaft from turning.

Any thoughts?? "

" When turning the flywheel, a

" When turning the flywheel, and you encounter that slipping effect, watch the prop nut on the shaft. If that nut continues to turn with the prop being secured/jammed in place with the 2x4, the hub in the prop is slipping. If the nut & prop do not move, I would suspect that something is missing within the lower unit (a thrust washer or something of that nature) which is allowing excessive clearance between the lobes of the shifter and the lobes of the gears. When that slipping takes place, does it feel like a metal mechanism of some kind is letting go, jumping past something for a brief instant, then immediately grabbing again? If so, I would lean towards the senerio above.... something missing or a wrong item installed. A real mystery. Has this lower unit been apart recently?

Joe "

" James,

I have been follow

" James,

I have been following along with you and Joe and hope I might be able to make some meaningful suggestions that could help you identify the problem.

Your description of the slipping which you noticed indicates that the clutch dog is either not fully engaged or that it is so badly worn that it won't remain in the forward or reverse gears.

I agree with Joe in that there is a good chance that you have a broken or misassembled component in the gearcase.

One thing I would advise you to do before you pull the lower unit is to insure that the shift cable is actually moving the linkage through the full range of motion. Disconnect the shift cable and shift the lower unit by moving the shift arm with a pair of pliers as you turn the flywheel slowly in a clockwise direction. It is easier if you remove the spark plugs when you try this. See if you can notice any difference with the slipping which you have described, or if there is any binding which makes it difficult to move the shift arm. I had to rebuild a lower unit last year because a worn cable eventually led to a damaged clutch dog.

Good luck.

Tony "

" James,

Forget my last mes

" James,

Forget my last message. I just realised that you don't have a mechanical shift lower unit.

Have you checked to see if the wires which activate the solonoids are functioning properly?

Tony "

" Tony, Yes the engine shifts

" Tony, Yes the engine shifts just fine into both directions as long as there is not resistance present. As soon as resistance is applied to the prop, the whole things stops turning.(Including the prop shaft that comes out of the lower unit.)

It sounds like it is about time to get a book and decided if I want to attempt to pull it apart, or if I want to take it to the shop.

I bought the engine used and have no idea what has or has not been done to it in the past. "

" James,

You mentioned that

" James,

You mentioned that it does not take very much resistance to stop the prop and shaft from turning. I don't think that the clutch dog is fully engaging for some reason. If it were, it would require a bit of force to cause it to slip out.

If you checked the lower unit fluid, did you notice anything unusual about it?

You could probably take the gearcase apart if you have a reasonable tool collection, but you may have to purchase some fairly expensive items to do the job properly. A puller for withdrawing the bearing carrier may or may not be nesessary. A serious ring plier for the internal retaining rings is a must. Aside from these, you can get by with fairly standard tools and a little improvisation.

Of course, you would need an engine manual and lots of patience.

Tony "