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  1. #1

    Default "I have a couple of 327 "G

    "I have a couple of 327 "Grays", both flywheel aft. One is a 188 the other is a 225. Im planning to use the 188, because it is the fresher of the two. My question is: What was done to the 225 to make 37 more horses?"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Davenport, Iowa, United States
    Posts
    7

    Default "<[img]"http://www.marineengin

    "<font color=""0000ff""><font face=""courier new&#44;courier""><font size=""+1"">I would use the 225, only because I am VERY HAPPY with mine. Which brings me to my question: What would you do with the 225, I could use it for backup or parts?</font></font></font>"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Suamico, Wisconsin,
    Posts
    201

    Default "Steve, interesting question b

    "Steve, interesting question but the answer is simply in the torque and rpm differences. Same block, same displacement, same compression ratio, same timing, same fuel, and same carburetors. The difference is the power curve at which max hp is gained. The 225 full load torque &#40;275 lb/ft&#41; is gained at about 43/4400 rpm with the prop load torque &#40;275 lb/ft&#41; maxed at the same rpm. These are reached at a fuel consumption around 40 to 50 gals/hr.
    The 188 full load torque and prop load torque are gained at about 3800 rpm &#40;250 lb/ft&#41; reached around 33 gals/hr.
    That being said, pardon the pun, it&#39;s a horse apiece...
    Use the fresher engine. If you plan on pulling a pyramid of skiers, use the 225 [img][/img]
    Hope this helps.
    Cal"

  4. #4

    Default "Jim, What are you looking f

    "Jim,
    What are you looking for? I know of a few misc Graymarine things around...getting hard to find this stuff...

    The 188 is a &#34;barn-find&#34;, I bought earlier this summer. It had been setting in the corner of a marina for almost 10 years. The PO died and the guy I got it from guessed it has 30 to 50 hrs of use before scapping the boat. Took valve covers off and like brand new inside! So, thats the one I&#39;m using for sure.

    I bought the 225 from a friend and am using it for spare parts and &#34;just-in-case&#34; engine..plus it came two extra just rebuilt Carter YH&#39;s

    Im still wondering if the 225 has a different cam spec, or something to spin the extra 400 r&#39;s?

    thanks for the input!"

  5. #5

    Default "Jim, I just see your in Dav

    "Jim,
    I just see your in Davenport IA!? and Cal is in WI...what part?

    I live in Sterling IL... you guys go to the Muscatine show?"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Suamico, Wisconsin,
    Posts
    201

    Default "Suamico, WI, just 8 miles nor

    "Suamico, WI, just 8 miles north of Green Bay.
    If you find that you need parts for either of your 327&#39;s there is a company in St. Charles, just due east of you that bought out the Graymarine inventory a few years ago. They have all OEM parts. I bought gaskets, water hoses, exhaust manifold keepers etc from them two years ago, all in stock.
    Gray Marine, INC
    310 north 6th street
    St. Charles, IL
    630-584-9141
    Cal"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Suamico, Wisconsin,
    Posts
    201

    Default "Steve, I have the shop manual

    "Steve, I have the shop manual for the engines and there is nothing that explains the difference or reasoning for the hp changes. Cam specs would be my guess also.
    Cal"

  8. #8

    Default "Cal, I have the shop manual

    "Cal,
    I have the shop manual also, and like you , couldnt find anything on the differences other than the RPM&#39;s. Thanks for the info on the Graymarine parts, I knew somebody in IL had bought the inventory, wasnt sure where.

    The 188 has Barr manifolds and I was able to get all the exhaust gaskets thru them.

    I still need to find a couple rebuild kits for fuel pumps, one for the 188 and one for a 1964 Interceptor I6. I have a to talk to a friend that got one for his 68 Century. Might have to call the &#34;Gray&#34; people as well. Does anyone sell rebuilt pumps?
    Steve"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Suamico, Wisconsin,
    Posts
    201

    Default If you belong to the Century b

    If you belong to the Century boat club and get on the forum you might get some valuable contacts for parts.
    Cal

  10. #10

    Default "Cal, Out of 4 boats...no Ce

    "Cal,
    Out of 4 boats...no Century&#39;s.. yet. LOL

    Three are &#39;glass Correct Crafts&#40;64,66,&amp;68&#41; and the Gray is going in a 62 Higgins.

    Do you have any bigger pics of you&#39;r Sabre? Thats a pretty rare boat, isnt it?"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Davenport, Iowa, United States
    Posts
    7

    Default "You guys write to fast... Too

    "You guys write to fast... Too many questions... Cal, you and I have chatted before&#40;You are an awesome wealth of information&#41; Steve, Yes I live in Davenport and we did go to Muscatine&#40;Clear Lake and Lake Geneva this year also&#41;Rain washed us out except for Saturdays and it was cold an windy... Lake Geneva was AWESOME SHOW Thank you Blackhawk guys especially Matt Byrne.. I do know about the St. Charles warehouse and have got parts from them. I am looking for a 225 that runs so I can keep the original in running order, if I ever sell the boat. I am anal like that... Don&#39;t want to blow crack anything. The difference is the cam alignment and rpms... I added an electric fuel pump and stayed with lowest psi possible. Otherwise it will flood out the Carters because of the slight angle they sit... I will check mine tomorrow and get details for you&#40;if I can get out in the snow&#41;. I to have back up Carters.. I have a back up part for the whole engine, just no block...Get both manuals for your engines. THEY ARE A WEALTH OF INFORMATION and will save you a ton of time.&#40;I wonder how much time really weighs?&#41;"

  12. #12

    Default "Jim, Might have met you, wi

    "Jim,
    Might have met you, without knowing. My wife and I help Dave M. at the Muscatine show. In fact we&#39;re catching up with them this weekend. He just picked up a couple of 200 Ford engines out in Des Moines for the 64.

    I&#39;m running an electric pump on my 1964 American Skier, with the Interceptor for the time being. Would like to get the original pump rebuilt tho.

    Are you running the 225 in your Resorter? I dont know of any engines or blocks right now, but will keep an eye out. I have another friend that is always looking for them also.

    Im assuming your Graymarine is a flywheel aft setup that spins a RH prop?

    What two manuals do you have? I do have the shop manual and a parts listing manual. Like you say very helpful.

    Catch you later, Steve"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Suamico, Wisconsin,
    Posts
    201

    Default "Steve, The Century Sabre I ha

    "Steve, The Century Sabre I have I bought on Ebay in 2005 and did a complete rep apart and build from the bottom up. I&#39;m not a purest that &#34;restored&#34; to factory, bless them. I bought the boat because of my love for woodies and boating. Somewhere on this Marine Engine forum you can see a complete posting of the rebuild of the 225 in the boat, if you google century sabre it shows up somewhere. I only took the boat to one show and that was in Door County, WI. I&#39;m not a showboat person but I like looking at others. The Sabre is a daily driver that is well used and never skips a beat on the water. I do the regular maint on the engine including the adjustment of the valves, timing etc. After I first started the engine after the rebuild it fired right up and never hicuped since. The dual carbs setup was a small problem with leaking after shutdown at first but then if you look in the manual and do the float adjustment EXACTLY as described right down to the minutia the problem goes away. How many thousand pictures do you want?? silly question to ask a boat fancier.
    Here are two that were taken last July at a small lake in the northern part of lower Michigan, Mullett Lake. You can see the boat is not pampered. We&#39;ve had four skiers at one time and it was as if there was nothing holding it back.
    Cal



    "

  14. #14

    Default "Cal, You sound a lot like m

    "Cal,
    You sound a lot like me! I only go to 2 or 3 boat shows a year. AND... none of them are judged shows. I could care less about trophies. We go to catch up friends we have met over the years. My boats are also users. I&#39;ve had guys ask if I use my 64 American Skier very often..my repsonse is &#34;at least three times a week&#34; , for a long time it was the only boat I had that ran!

    Starting to plan a rebuild of her motor later this winter..."

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Erie, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    44

    Default Guys! You guys were talking

    Guys!

    You guys were talking about the difference in Hp of the Gray 188 and the 225 the cam is the same part number for all the gray V8&#39;s 135 through 238
    std rotation 70517 opposite rotation 70518 group code 1.7000 service parts list GM--2072C. I live in Erie Michigan 6 mi from Toledo OH work at Jeep and worked at Harrison Marina for 20 yrs part time. as a mechanic started in the mid sixties. I have a Gray 238 with a 4 bbl carb looking to trade for a side draft setup If you go to Ebay and type in Gray marine there is another 238 for sale you probably could pickup for 250.00 complete. NW of Detroit about 60 miles.
    give me a ring back. I hope this was of some help
    Fred Durbin

  16. #16

    Default "Thanks for the info Fred... d

    "Thanks for the info Fred... duhhh, I never thought about checking the cam numbers!? But, we&#39;re back to square one. ;-&#41; What makes the 37hp difference between the two? If all parts are the same, why cant I just spin my 188 at 4400 and call it a 225? What makes the rpm different...&#40;something else in the engine, prop pitch, boat size, etc&#41;?

    BTW, I assume you want a twin sidedraft? You have the intake and 4bbl?"

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Erie, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    44

    Default "Steve! the spec's on the

    "Steve!
    the spec&#39;s on the Gray 188 are as folows 4000 rpm, 4&#34; bore x 3-1/4&#34; stroke comp. ratio 9.5:1 @ 0 degrees TDC timing premium fuel.the 225 same specs @ 4400 rpm the 215 hp same specs @ 4200 rpm the 238 has an AFB 4bbl carb and 5 degrees btc the v8 178hp is a 250 cid rated @4400 rpm at 15 degrees BTC 2 sd carbs. getting the top RPM depends on the boat weight hull configuration hull material, and most of all the prop size I started out with a gray v8-ch flywheel fwd in my 1963 25&#39; Lyman running a 1-1/4&#34; sst shaft with a Federal NIBRAL super cup 3 blade prop 14&#34; dia x 11&#34; pitch the boat would run 33 mph at 4000 rpm @ 0 degrees TDC. I kept. trying to get more out of the eng rpm wise and finally moved the ignition timing to 5 degrees BTC and got 4200 no problem and finally to 12.5 degrees BTC for 4400 but only gained 3 more MPH. but I was able to get what I wanted without changing the prop size but my boat was a semi displacement hull and only meant to run so fast, and 36 mph was all there was. Later I changed the motor over to a General motors 350 cid eng new vet long block had a 10.0 compression ratio 375 hp fuelie solid lifter cam by Crane it was what they called the 30-30 cam valve lash .030 intake and .030 exhaust. with a 346 degree duration intake and exhaust. The motor was dyno tested at 350 hp at 5000 rpm. I dumped the new motor in the boat and was in for a shock of my life. All that HP and torque I couldn&#39;t swing a bigger pitch prop and only gained 2 more mph. all the money I sunk in the motor didn&#39;t really gain me anything. except better reliablity. with a new eng. So I didn&#39;t try to get any more speed out of the old woody. But she sure did sound good idling at the dock had 3&#34; copper exhaust pipes with flex hose for vibration purposes. The cam in the eng make the boat rock sideways when idling. had a lot of good comments on the eng and boat. The boat was
    called the eyecatcher. My daughter named the boat. I now own a 1972 glass 24&#39; Lyman with a Chris-Craft GM small block 307-Q @ 200 HP and turns 38 MPH with 3 guys in the boat. We use it for fishing and run to Put-in-Bay for a couple of beers. I hope I was able to help you out.
    Fred"

  18. #18

    Default "Fred, Even tho your boat i

    "Fred,
    Even tho your boat is a 25 footer, Seems hard to believe you couldnt pull a bigger wheel with the &#34;bigger&#34; Chevy!?

    Dont know exactly what to expect of the 188 in the Higgins hull. Its a 17 footer, and is pretty light. I only ran the 135 once, and it wouldnt go on plane...think I had a tranny issue. It was running a 12&#34; prop on a 7/8&#34; shaft, but dont remember the pitch. I am planning to change the shaft to a 1&#34; so I can &#34;play&#34; with some of my extra props to see what works best.

    BTW, is the takeout motor what you&#39;r using in the AC?"

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