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Engine confusion

M

mrtmaag

Contributing Member
"I have found a number stamped

"I have found a number stamped on the top of the engine, it is D5JE-9425-FA. This is a 1986 v-8 engine with a Mercruiser Alpha One outdrive. The exhaust manifold say OMC on them in big letters. I am so confused about what this engine is. I need to buy spark plugs and other parts for it, but I don't know what the heck it is. Also, I am getting ready to winterize it, Do you need to use antifreeze, or can you just drain the block, manifolds and remove the lower water pump hose and be okay. It is my first I/O boat. Thanks for any help."
 
The oem part number you found

The oem part number you found is for a 1975 ford intake manifold so it`s definitely not a 305 or 350 chev. Also ford v8`s were 302 or 351 small blocks used from about 1972 to 1978. So either the year of the boat is in question or it`s had some pretty major conversion if it is a 86 model boat. It also seems unusual to have a boat with mercruiser i/o and omc heads.
 
"There is a tag on the carbera

"There is a tag on the carberator that says motorcraft on it, but the distributer says mercruiser on it. Maybe I do have a Ford engine, but the boat is definitely a 1986 Galaxy that is no longer manufactured. Any ideas on how to identify if it is a ford and what size it is?"
 
"I looked at some Ford 302 and

"I looked at some Ford 302 and 351 blocks online and they look the same as this one, how to I determine it is a 302 or 351. Where would I get a manual for this type of engine?"
 
"The intake manifold for a 302

"The intake manifold for a 302 and 351 are different. If you take that oem number D5JE-9425- FA to a ford dealer, he may be able to tell you which one it is. Both motors have a 4 inch bore. The 302 has a 3 in stroke where the 351 has a 3.5 in stroke. Externally they look very similar but I believe the intake manifolds are different because the 351 uses slightly larger heads.
In your position, I would measure the width of the intake manifold between the heads at the front of the engine and then go to a ford dealer or parts store and ask to see the intake gasket set for both. That should decide it for you."
 
Easy way to tell if its a ford

Easy way to tell if its a ford. On fords the distributor is on the front of the engine and chevy's it's on the back. If it is a ford then someone took out the origial and installed a ford motor in it. 351 and 302 manifolds are the same. I don't remember OMC using a motorcraft carb.You may have a car engine in your boat. You can take a magnet to the water pump and the timing cover behind the w/p. They should both be cast iron not aluminum. If they are aluminum expect to change them soon if you are in a salt water environment.
 
"Thank you so much for the hel

"Thank you so much for the help, the water pump is cast iron, so I am hopeful for the right engine, although it will never see salt water. Sometimes you never know for sure what you are getting when you buy a used boat, especially your first one. It does run really well so that is a plus."
 
"Troy,

An easy way to

"Troy,

An easy way to tell if you have a 302 or 351 is to pull the distributor. The 351 distributer pump rod hole is a 5/16 allen size. Yes you can fit the 5/16 allen wrench in the 351 distributor but not the 302."
 
"Troy
I once replaced a cam o

"Troy
I once replaced a cam on a 302, parts guy ordered the right cam, came boxed stating it was for a 302. Put it in fit perfectly. Started it up ran sorta. Fired on some but not all 8. Lot of thinking went into figuring out that the new 302 cam was in fact a boxed wrong 351 cam. Got new 302 cam layed them side by side same lenght cam profile, but 2 valves did not open the same from 302 to 351, so I suggest looking at the firing order of the engine, they are different. If you see a cast in firing order say on the intake manifold take it to parts guy should be able to tell you which you are looking at."
 
"There were multiple firing or

"There were multiple firing orders for 302 Ford engines over the years, so it's possible you DID have a 302 cam, but for the wrong 302.

Agreed, Ford experts?

Jeff"
 
"According to the selco manual

"According to the selco manual, ford 302 and 351 v8`s were used from 72-78 only in mercruiser applications and they all shared the same firing order of 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8. Automotive applications could be a different story."
 
One thing that still seems odd

One thing that still seems odd is the fact Troy has a 1986 year boat with a Alpha one leg and a ford engine.
He stated that his manifolds were OMC and I see that OMC used ford engines right up into the 90`s. Is it possible that this boat was originally an omc outdrive and was changed to a mercruiser leg or is this even possible?
 
"If the Seloc manual is saying

"If the Seloc manual is saying that Mercruiser is the only company that used Ford motors, it's not even close to the truth. Indmar used them until '04 and PCM stopped using them fairly recently when they ran out. Ford stopped producing motors for marine use in about '97. Obviously, if the manifolds show OMC, there is some parts compatibility.

The spark plugs are angled forward and backward on a Ford motor while they only angle upward on a GM. Also, the block drain plugs are centered, just above the oil pan on a GM and they're staggered on a Ford. This puts one close to the motor's front and the other one farther back.

Post some photos of the motor- it shouldn't be too hard to ID it from those.

Thsi boat has definitely been cobbled together- Merc outdrive, OMC manifolds, MotorCraft carb- who knows what was OEM and what was replaced?"
 
"Reread my post this am ands r

"Reread my post this am ands realize where Jim thought I said mercruiser only. It was supposed to be read as 72-78 only,,,
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"It is definitely a Ford 302 o

"It is definitely a Ford 302 or 351 as the distributer is on the front of the engine. The block drain plugs are staggered and I found Ford on the intake manifold under some grime. I will get a picture posted. It has been painted though. The outdrive is a mercruiser alpha one drive. It looks original enough and runs great, but I am just still trying to determine if it is a 302 or 351. It faintly says 235 horsepower on the valve cover, but because of paint, that is all I can read. The OMC risers, I believe were standard for some Ford engines. I think this is a 70's engine but in this 86 boat, but who knows for sure. Thank you for all the help so far."
 
"It could very well be a '

"It could very well be a '70s Ford CAR motor but the marine applications have never been totally up-to-date. If it shows 235 HP, it's most likely a 351 since that was a pretty common HP number. The HO 351 generally put out 275 HP.

FYI-

" IGNITION FIRING ORDER ON HO ENGINES

Ignition Firing Order On
Ford 5.0L HO (High Output) Engines

There seems to be much confusion about the firing order on Ford 5.0L HO (High Output) engines.

Contrary to the plain 5.0L engine, the HO (High Output) version uses the same firing order as the 5.8L engine. This is probably the case because early 5.0L HO engines used a 5.8L marine camshaft.

The firing order for the standard 5.0L is: 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. The firing order for the HO engine is: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. The rotor inside the distributor rotates counterclockwise on both engines (see illustration).

Using the plain 5.0L firing order on the HO engine does work, however the engines will have low vacuum and very poor idle. At higher rpm it appears to smooth out, but is very low on horse power, not at all what the customer will expect from this potent power plant."
(from www.rebuiltautoengines.com/ford-articles.html)"
 
OMC made the 235 in 1977 and i

OMC made the 235 in 1977 and it used a ford 351. The engine is basically the same as a merc 233. I have one of each and they are the same except the 233 has studs to the coupler and the omc has bolts oh and thay have dif carbs. Ill look tonight and see what carb the 233 comes with.

It sounds like someone has done a great deal of tinkering with your 1986 boat.

I am thinking that the boat has a 77 omc 235 with an 888 merc (made from about 1974 to 1978?) (I don’t think merc made a transom assembly for the small block ford during the mid eighties) drive and the pre alpha drive was replaced with an alpha drive. But why.

To me it would make since because I have all of these parts and more sitting in my basement right now.

I have been told that you can tell the dif between the 302 and the 351 by the size of the head bolts. but the heads between the 302 and the 351 are interchangeable so ?
 
You got my curiosity Poopiepan

You got my curiosity Poopiepantz what is the size of a 302 oil pump drive hex? I thought that the dist and oil pump was interchangeable.

I just talked with the guy that told me about the head bolt thing and they must be removed to see the dif. And I am told that there is no non-destructive way to tell the dif. However I think that the intake on the 351 is wider.? I will take a measurement of mine tonight.
 
Hello Greenly.

I believe th

Hello Greenly.

I believe the 302 is 1/4 inch hex. The shaft is definately a thinner diameter than the 351. Definately not interchangeble. The 351 intake is wider as is the deck height. I must have missed the Head bolt discussion. What was that about?
 
"[url=""]http://www.classiccar

"http://www.classiccar.com/articles/Ford_Small_Block_History_page2.asp

Now if knowledgeable marine people say there is no difference between the intake manifolds , heads, etc from 302 to 351 but automotive applications claim there is a difference(me included), then one might draw the conclusion that one or the other is a different motor. Now , you can`t get 351 cu inches out of a 302 without increased deck height but you could change crank and rods to shorten stroke from 3.5 inches to 3 so you could de-stroke a 351 to a 302.If a marine 302 were a de-stroked 351, it would sure clear up a lot of questions.
I for one hope this thread uncovers some info for Troy because it has sure peaked my curiosity."
 
"I measured the intake at the

"I measured the intake at the front and it is about 10 and 3/4 inch wide. There are some tab like parts of the casting and that is were I checked it. Let me know what specific measurement you want and I will check. The casting number for the intake that you mentioned is the same as mine (78 omc 240 and merc 233) both 351s. I would bet that you have a 351.

As far as manuals, The seloc books that I have treat the merc and omc 302 and 351 the same (1977 omc 235 has timing at 10 btc and 78 omc 240 it is 6 btc). The small block ford rebuild book I have only talks about small block fords not 351 or 302.

WOW after this I am going to fabricate a new data plates for my engines."
 
"I just measured the intake ma

"I just measured the intake manifold, it is also about 10 and 3/4" wide. I am going to try the distributer test and I will let you know what I find"
 
"Hey Poopiepantz, I tried pull

"Hey Poopiepantz, I tried pulling the distributer but everything looked much bigger than 5/16. What exact part should I pull. I tried unbolting the entire distributer and it was a large hole with a big gear at the end. I pulled the distributer cap off and pulled the distibuter rotor off and nothing under there. I must be confused. I really appreciate the help. I am suspecting this is a High Output 302 rated at 235 hp"
 
"The intake manifold is defini

"The intake manifold is definitely wider on a 351. It has about 1/2 inch higher deck height. TGhe heads interchange, though.


Jeff"
 
Poopiepantz is talking about t

Poopiepantz is talking about the hex shaft that drives the oil pump. If you have the distributor out look down into the hole that it can out of. The shaft goes into the lower end of the distributor. The shaft itself should have a keeper on it so it shouldn’t come out but you can measure the hole in the distributor shaft. Make sure you get the shaft back into the distributor or no oil pressure.

Did you check the timing before you pulled the dist.? or how will you know what to set the timing at?
 
"Another thought that I had wa

"Another thought that I had was if the boat came with a merc 470 or 170 setup. Since the 470 is a ford maybe it would be interchangeable with a 351 (same bell and alignment but new gear ratio).

If so, I'm going to start looking for a boat with a trashed 470 engine."
 
One more last thought!! If yo

One more last thought!! If you can see the faint 235 on the rocker cover maybe it was painted without being stripped. OMC puts their data plate (sticker) on the inboard side of the rocker cover. Maybe it is there but has paint on it.
 
I pulled the distributer and a

I pulled the distributer and a 5/16" allen wrench fits perfectly into it. It must be a 351 then. Thank you for the help.
 
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