New long block or Rebuild

"1979 Port side Chrysler 318 p

"1979 Port side Chrysler 318 pulled for winter repair, has a rod knock, wrench time is no issue so that said rapidomarine is offering a long block for 1400. Any feedback on these guys? Jasper offers the same rebuild for 2400. The question is do I go for the rebuild or take the existing motor minus the accessories to the local machine shop and get it rebuilt? One more question on Manifolds, original existing i believe but don't seem to be a problem, replace??"

"$2,400 is WAY too much. &#40

"$2,400 is WAY too much. (Chryslers are cheaper than S B Chevies.) I don't recommend "Joe's Machine Shop" either. I bought a long block from a company that pre-runs it on a dyno--Joe's doesn't do that! The cam was already broken in, and the compression and oil pressure tested. THAT'S what what you want, for the installation is an expensive pain in the *ss and NOT covered by the guarantee.

Got mine from Marine Power Service in New Jerseys and am very pleased:

http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/Engel/Engel.htm

Jeff"

"Jeff,
I am looking at 318 lo

"Jeff,
I am looking at 318 long blocks.
Marine power Service is in NJ, but that marine parts.com shows a fl loation. It appears two different companies.
Am I missing something?"

"Unless you simply love wrench

"Unless you simply love wrenching and/or want to build a 318 to a certain spec, it's tough to beat the value of a long block. If you get it from a reputable remanufacture, it's better than a DIY simply because it'll have a warrantee (and will probably cost about the same as a legit, DIY rebuild at the end of the day).

I bought a 318 long block built by First Mate/Marshall (originally recommended by Dave Kane on this board). It came with a very complete FelPro gasket set which will cost you another couple-hundred if not included with the long block. I’ve since had a tech there email me the build specs……they were very responsive and the specs were pretty impressive. I got mine from www.1800runsnew.com. Their price was good and they were within driving distance of me. However, I think that a lot of the better distributors are probably selling First Mate engines. They may even sell direct.

Lastly, Jeff’s right about the $2,400 being hollywood money for a 318. On the other hand, I’d be careful of something as low as $1,400. I think that $1,800-2k is what you can expect to pay from a reputable builder (with a good warrantee, complete gasket kit, etc). Because of sheer size and volume, the bigger/better builders are going to use more new parts and any parts that are refurbished will probably go through a more high-tech and procedural remanufacture process (vs. some guy in a salvage yard’s machine shop with a sandblaster and a ham sandwich).

Note to Joseph – if you’re replacing both motors, you might want consider the 360 upgrade. There’s barely a cost difference and almost all of the parts interchange. This is probably the most popular “should have done” among small block Chrysler owners who’ve repowered with new 318’s (self included). 318’s are great engines but the 360 has some significant out-of-the-box torque/HP advantages."

"..."if you’re replacing b

"..."if you’re replacing both motors, you might want consider the 360 upgrade. There’s barely a cost difference and almost all of the parts interchange. "

Careful! The flywheel, oil pan (not included in a long block), timing pulley and other parts are different.

The guys I recommended are:

http://www.marinepowerservice.com/

This is a different company from Marine Power (engines).


Jeff"

"The 360's have a number o

"The 360's have a number of differences. because the 360 is a externally balanced engine and the 273, 318 , and 340's are internally balanced. Flywheel, Harmonic balancer, Oilpan, and even the port side motor mount is different ( you can make the motor mount work, but there is a little shimming to do to make it work.

Dave"

"Be careful with Jasper ,Im st

"Be careful with Jasper ,Im still having problems with mine. Although their warenty is great 18 months ."

.."Although their warenty

.."Although their warenty is great 18 months ."

That's not too comforting as you hire a forklift to get the motor out--again!

I strongly recommend a good rebult long block by a reputable supplier rather than a Joe's Machine Shop rebuild. The cost and effort putting the thing in--twice or more--makes it the way to go.

Jeff

Tell me about it! the only goo

Tell me about it! the only good thing is they pay for everything. including the lift out.

Wow! Then that's a really

Wow! Then that's a really good deal.

Jeff

"Yeah…that's pretty impres

"Yeah…that's pretty impressive.

I’d imagine that some of those companies put a heavy burden of proof on the customer and/or do everything they can to skirt warrantee responsibilities by calling into question the assembler/installer, any parts were transferred from an old motor, etc., etc.

It’s a lousy process you’re going through…..but at least it seems as though they’re making good on their errors."

"Yes this the second time I ha

"Yes this the second time I have had to pull this motor the first time they sent it out with the lobe on the cam for the fuel pump rod was not polished and it ate a 1/4" off of it so this filled the motor full of steel and they said send it back, and on this motor also has steel freeze plugs in the back of the heads, not good either. like I said though the only thing keeping me from loosing my mind is they pay for lifts, oil, gaskets, all parts,"

"So the long block is on the w

"So the long block is on the way, does any one knwo what is teh best weight oil to use. The shop is telling me straight 40."

"I don’t know why anyone recom

"I don’t know why anyone recommends straight weights anymore. Multi-viscosity oil is the way to go.

For the first fill and all-important cam break in, I’d suggest a high-zinc oil like Valvoline VR1. Typically, any brand’s “race oil” will be a high-zinc product. They have to label it this way because the new API standards require “on road” oils to have much lower levels of zinc than in years past. In any event, zinc’s properties help prevent flat tappet cam wear. Even if you don’t stick with it after-the-fact, use it for cam break in.

I used 20/50 VR1 for the cam break in and, after that, went to 10/40 Royal Purple (a bit overkill price-wise…..but very good oil)."

"good to know on the oil, anot

"good to know on the oil, another issues im struggleing with is the manifolds and elbows, it seems that they are orignal from 79', a bit rusty but not viable leakage or blockage, manifolds are expesive but elbows are only about 120. Do i go for replacements? i already basically replaced everthing but when do you say enough is enough?"

"If I had a good answer to the

"If I had a good answer to the "enough is enough" question, I probably wouldn't own a boat!

Tough call on the manifolds and elbows. I guess it all comes down to how close to rust-out/failure you think they might be. You don't want to risk ingestion of water with your brand new motor.

Although it’s neurotic thinking and strictly opinion……should you ever have to make a warrantee claim on that motor, the more receipts you have for brand new components, the less you allow the manufacture to call into question the condition of reused parts, etc."

"A good alternative to oils th

"A good alternative to oils that don't have zinc which is most of today's oil's especially any with the 'star burst' on the back is diesel oil like 15W-40 and it's cheap. Motorcraft, Shell Rotella, Chevron are available every where.

I'm not a big fan of full synthetics in things that aren't designed for them and that accounts for most of our stuff. Drives, engines, tranny's. There not a magic bullet."

"Tony, just FYI I used straigh

"Tony, just FYI I used straight 30 weight in my new 440's and that was recomended by a number resources as well as Jasper recommened that as well. As for the risers I'm going through the same thing and I replaced one side and the temp is a big difference with the new risers, I can touch the risers on the new ones at full temp and on the old ones I cant touch the riseres . I also put them in acid at first but the acid took so much metal away so I replaced them."

"With engines that were built

"With engines that were built 30-40 years ago, it's often easiest for people (rebuilders included) to simply refer to the manufacturer's original lubricant specs. To some, the owners manual is still the bible.

Multi-viscosity and synthetic oils are advancements. Ironically, conventional oils have become so "modernized" (lower zinc, detergents, etc.), that older/flat tappet engines are probably better-protected with high-performance synthetics than they are with the conventionals that people swear they require.

If an older engine has always been fed straight weight conventional oil, there's no strong argument to be made for a late-life change. However, for a new engine like Tony's, rebuilt in 2009 with many brand new components, there's nothing taboo about using modern lubricants."

"Tony, did you buy it from Rap

"Tony, did you buy it from Rapidomarine? I need one this spring and you can't beat the price. Please keep me posted on how you think Rapidomarine is."

"Jim,
I did go through rapido

"Jim,
I did go through rapido, after doing much searching there was no one beating the price, a few were close and no core charge. I saw another post that said the product was good and they had tons of references. I shoudl recieve the long block thursday and then reassemble this weekend. Wish me luck, going to attempt to fire it up in the garage before i have the marina drop it in the boat. Any tips to look out for?"

"Tony,
Make sure you pre oil

"Tony,
Make sure you pre oil it and insure you have oil to both L&R valve rocker shafts and arms.
install a oil pressure guage/do a compression check. & record numbers for future ref.
Please let us know your progress.
Joe"

"Tony – the 318 build-out is p

"Tony – the 318 build-out is pretty straightforward.

Sorry if I’m hitting points that you’re already well aware of but…..a couple of things that come to mind.

If you don’t already have them, the only unique tools you’ll need are A) a steering wheel puller to remove the harmonic balancer from the old motor and B) a priming rod for your drill (for the pre-oiling that Joe mentioned). Remember to add silicone to the gaskets around the intake manifold water passages. It also doesn’t hurt to put some Loctite Ultra Black on the timing chain cover gasket surface as well as the surfaces where the front and rear oil pan gaskets seal to the timing chain cover and block, respectively. Speaking of front and rear oil pan gaskets, there are two kinds……one has rubber studs/plugs running the entire width of the gasket (maybe six total). The other has only two plugs…..one on either end of the gasket. Just make sure the ones included in the long block kit match up to your old pan. The pan will have matching holes for said plugs. Your ’79 will probably be the two-plug jobs.

If using studs to mount the exhaust manifolds, you may want to order some new ones. They can be a bear to remove from the old heads. Otherwise, if using bolts, just make sure you get the appropriate length for your manifolds + stud holes. Add silicone to the two end studs/bolts on both heads…..as they run into water passages.

If you’re going to fire it in the garage, it should only be long enough to know it runs. Otherwise, you should be prepared to run it for the length of the cam break in (20-30 minutes) and have a full set of external monitors (RPM’s, temp, oil pressure, etc.). That half-hour is the most nerve-racking part of the process. Once you make it through that, dial in the timing, change the oil and you’re done.

Again, sorry if I’m outlining things you’ve already got covered.

Keep us posted on progress and post/email if you need any help in the process."

"this was all great info, firs

"this was all great info, first time I have done a compleate rebild of this magnatude. Im going to have to do some reaserch on the pre oiling. If i can get it to the point where it will safely run im going to try to do it for the full 30 mins, my marina is a dam rip off and doesnt like to let you work on the boat in there yard. the staff techs get offened i guess lol"

"Where this is your first pass

"Where this is your first pass at this, I highly recommend the book “How to Rebuild: Small Block Mopar” (link below). It covers a lot more than you’ll need for a long block conversion but its dirt cheap insurance for any and all uncertainties you could encounter. Amazon or your local B&N could probably have it for you by the weekend.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Mopar-Engines/dp/0895861283"

"for the oil, coolant, and oth

"for the oil, coolant, and other misc sensors, are there any difference in just going to the local auto parts shop and getting them to match or do they have to be marine parts? Same question of pulleys, mine are pretty well rusted along with the hrominc balancer, what do you guys think about getting them bead blasted?? with it throw off the balancer ? what about pulleys?"

"Exhaust temp sensors, etc. wi

"Exhaust temp sensors, etc. will/should be marine specific. You can get away with auto versions of things like oil pressure senders, for example. For anything that you're trying to match at an auto parts store, I'd start at a place like NAPA. Not only do the carry marine parts, but they often have employees who actually know something about engines and are willing to do some legwork to find you a part.

I bead-blasted a lot of my old parts (incl. harmonic balancer, drive pulley, oil pan, flywheel, etc.). After a fresh coat of paint, they'll look brand new. You won't throw off the balancer by blasting it....you're just removing rust and paint."

"For temp switches, I use &#34

"For temp switches, I use "fan switches" sold by Jeggs or Summit Racing (on line). I put 200 'F switches in the motor and 160 'F ones in the manifolds. These are heavy duty automotive items with nice connectors.

Jeff"

"so i had the pulleys and bala

"so i had the pulleys and balancer blasted, the pulleys are all pitted (as expected) the question is that the inner rim where the belt sits is also pitted were was once smooth from the belt, question is will that cause a problem holding the belt and not slip?"

It might work even better!

It might work even better!

Jeff