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Locked up Mercruiser and stuck Alpha One

G

gone_postal

Regular Contributor
"Dad has an older Sea Ray w/ a

"Dad has an older Sea Ray w/ a rebuilt Alpha One (gen I) - this was done back in 04. About 2yrs ago during offseason my dad went out to start it as a periodic maintenance and the motor wouldn't turn over - it's a 10yr old Mercruiser 5.7. He instantly pulled plugs, lubed, etc and still can't get it to turn over (even by hand). Money had been tight, so it has sat since.

I finally talked him into working on it (have a boat of my own now and have learned to love working on them - thank you Johnson forum). After some research, I'm leaning towards seized Gimbal bearing. I'm trying to remove the stern drive, but for the life of me can't!! Gear in fwd, 6 bolts removed, but it's stuck! I've dropped it a few inches and it doesn't budge.

Any suggestions?
Does my idea of seized Gimbal even seem plausible?"
 
""removed, but it's st

""removed, but it's stuck! I've dropped it a few inches and it doesn't budge."
drops back not down?????
may sieze to the input shaft but thats all,
what was the condition of the drive oil?"
 
"Further to Bt Doctur, it soun

"Further to Bt Doctur, it sounds like you're trying to remove the lower end of the leg, not the entire leg, to expose the gimbal bearing.If that's correct, I'm surprised that it's dropped a couple of inches and then stopped. If the input shaft was frozen to the upper splines, they usually will not drop down at all.
With the plugs removed from the engine, you should be able to turn the crankshaft at the engine damper with a socket and pressure bar. It should not be that tight. I suspect that you've got a seized engine.
Do remove the entire leg, (trim cylinders first)and try again. You'll need an alignment tool to reinstall the leg."
 
"To clarify -

Cannot turn

"To clarify -

Cannot turn over motor at damper pulley even with plugs removed. I'm under the impression that if gimbal bearing is seized, then motor won't turn over - even if in neutral?!? My dad was pretty meticulous at randomly starting the motor when not in use, so I'd be pretty surprised if the motor seized.

As for removal - yes, I'm trying to remove the "leg" I guess it's called - the part of stern drive that goes down and the prop is attached to. It's held on by 6 bolts and the steering rams attach to it. I'm hoping I can inspect gimbal, bellows, etc. once it's off.

All bolts removed, rams, etc. If I pick up the "leg" a few inches and drop it - so it falls under its own weight - it still won't bust free. There is some corrosion on the lower two bolts, but I doubt it'd be enough to hold this in place. I've read that if gimbal is indeed frozen then the "leg" won't seperate (I guess b/c spline is frozen in place). Is this true? Is it possible to remove the top cover on the "leg" and somehow disconnect that spline/pinion? (whatever it's called)"
 
"That a bit clearer now.
re-i

"That a bit clearer now.
re-install the rams, MAKE SURE IT`S IN FOWARD,use some form of shim stock between the outdrive cap and transom housing,SLOWLY raise the trim ,it should start coming out, lower trim all the way, install more shim material, raise trim, and so on untill is off. If the gimbal is stuck to the shaft it will come out at the same time."
 
"Bt Doctur -
Well, sounded l

"Bt Doctur -
Well, sounded like a great idea. We reconnected rams and I wedged a 2x4 in there while my dad trimmed (held board in there longways, so the 4" part). Anyway, it was cracking and flexing the board and we could hear the trim motor was under great strain, but the drive still isn't budging!! We triple checked that it's in forward (and not just throttled in neutral), but still no go. We stopped b/c we don't want to risk breaking anything. I guess we're just going to have to really beat the crap outta this thing, but like I said - we're scared to break something - these drives aren't cheap.

This drive has a slot on each side of the gasket area - I've read that "newer" ones have this for prying. What do they expect you to use? It's not very deep and my largest screwdriver was practically useless - couldn't really dig in to pry.

Would it help to heat up the area around the gasket w/ a torch?? Is that safe for the drive?"
 
"This is just my opinion......

"This is just my opinion..............

been there done that so take it for what it is worth..............

Get either 2 wooden wedges or plastic wedges for both sides and beat them inward till it starts to move. Kinda like a wood mal for splitting wood,
a very sharp angle and dont use pine use OAK! or a good plastic like delrin or similar.

Do not use pry bars at this point as you will cause too much damage.

And please dont ask me how I know lets just say I have had a few tough ones over the years..

And yes replace the gimbal, bellows and grease the living sh!t out of all metal/mechanical parts when reassembeling. This is either due to water comming from inside the boat or from a hole in the bellows or a lack of service of the drive shaft ( GREASE)"
 
"If that fails and you are for

"If that fails and you are forced to stop in order not to damage anything then the motor has to come out and beat the shaft thru that way...............dont ask,,,,,,,,,,"
 
"I'm not sure where I read

"I'm not sure where I read this, but I think on this forum. Someone said that if you pop the cap off of the outdrive (4 bolts), it's possible to release the drive shaft by disassembling the pinions from that location. Bt and others will know far more about this than me, but is that an option??"
 
"Kghost -
Um, yeah, removing

"Kghost -
Um, yeah, removing the motor isn't an option - at least not in our eyes. We just don't have access to that equipment - this is a 24' Sea Ray cuddy cabin - I'd need a crane to get that motor out!!

I'm not sure I follow on your wedges though. "For both sides" & "beat them inward"?!? What do you mean exactly? I'm picturing a 2x4 w/ a notch cut out and put that on the front side of the drive and beat that board in hopes of knocking the drive off of its mount. (drive would sit in the notch and you'd be swinging hammer from bow to stern). Am I way off here???

Bob -
I've heard that too. Have factory manual, but it's removal instructions are just basics - not for "complications". Looking at the exploded view though, item #23 is a nut for that drive gear - looks like it actually screws onto the U-Joint Yoke (#34). So, hypothetically, I can unscrew that nut and from the U-joint Yoke back should pull free. Is this correct? Is it possible to access this nut w/ the top cover off?? Picturing the way the gears would mesh in my head seems as if it MIGHT be possible, but working room in there might be a different story."
 
He's saying to get a pair

He's saying to get a pair of logging wedges made of plastic and drive them in on both sides at the same time.
 
"Andrew. That sounds similar t

"Andrew. That sounds similar to what I read, but I haven't been there and done that so I'm not positive.It makes sense from a mechanical standpoint. Try posting a new thread with a heading "Removing Difficult Outdrives". Hopefully the original advisor will respond."
 
"Here is a half a$$ pic of wha

"Here is a half a$$ pic of what I was trying to say with some more verbage.............LOL



289890.jpg
"
 
New to Mercruiser. Are there g

New to Mercruiser. Are there grease service where the shaft goes into gimbal or are there service points where auto trans oil can be introduced? Can the leg be raised to some degree and a small hole made in the highest possible point on the bellow and lubrication applied via plastic hose with the assistance of gravity or blowing into the hose. Try canola oil. This would fill up the bellow with some oil and MAY lubricate the seized shaft. ASSUMED THE BELLOW IS GOOD! My knowledge is presently on Chrysler 300 Stern Drives. Now also owning two Bravo 3 X with 496 HOs'. A brave new world!
 
"Fred -
I personally haven&#

"Fred -
I personally haven't looked inside the engine bay, but my dad mentioned some sort of grease zirk fitting in there - he's under the impression it was for the gimbal.

Now, looking from the outside, yes, I could probably trim the motor all the way up and cut a slit up high in the bellow and use a pump w/ hose to squirt oil in there. Maybe if I'm lucky I can manage to spray a bunch of PB Blaster in there. I'll go out later and check those options out. The bellows are all being replaced anyway when we get this drive out.

Out of curiosity, has anyone heard of Sterndrive Engineering? They make a kit for Alpha one that includes gimbal bearing, hose clamps, 3 bellows, gasket and looks to be some o-rings and it's only $85. Not looking to spend a ton, but not looking for crap either - don't want to redo this anytime soon."
 
"I say buy non oem at your own

"I say buy non oem at your own risk.

The only non oem parts I buy are simple gaskets.

When it comes to specific parts that are unique to merc, I buy merc.

It is a habbit learned from working in the business and not wanting return customers for material or component failures. I have been using ONLY merc parts for almost 20 years, exsclusivly!"
 
"my dad mentioned some sor

"my dad mentioned some sort of grease zirk fitting in there - he's under the impression it was for the gimbal."

It's on the coupler shaft for the engine coupler splines. Gimbal bearing zirk fitting is on the port side at 4:00 O'clock against the transom.
 
""It's on the coupler

""It's on the coupler shaft for the engine coupler splines. Gimbal bearing zirk fitting is on the port side at 4:00 O'clock against the transom."

I'm sure that is what he is talking about then and that he greased it regularly. This is the reason we're shocked of the whole situation. The boat didn't get used a lot, but is on a trailer and he started it regularly. Oh well, it is what it is."
 
"I'm amazed that that driv

"I'm amazed that that drive would be frozen as tightly as it seems.
On my (newer, 1998) 4.3, Alpha 1 gen 2, there is a zirk fitting directly behind the engine just before the shaft exits the transom. I found this quite by accident looking for something else. I make sure to include this fitting in my frequent maintenance. It also has the zirk on the bell housing at 4:00.
BT. How do you remove the engine with the leg firmly attached by a frozen driveshaft? I'd have thought that that would be even more difficult than removing the stern drive. Moving the engine forward should be more difficult than moving the drive backwards.
If there's a good lesson here, it's that we should probably pop the leg every couple of years and just do preventative maintenance so that these things will come apart when we need them to."
 
"Andrew you mentioned " tr

"Andrew you mentioned " trim the motor all the way up" I assume you are referring to the stern drive leg. If you can do that there must be some travel in the shaft! You may have pulled the gimbal bearing out??? We removed the two Bravo 3 X drives from the gimbals . Six bolts and the speedo and gear change cable on each leg. The shafts just slid out. From what i can see there are two points where the seized shaft would be held. First is the splined section. Mine were greased at that position. The second is where the solid shaft is positioned running through the gimbal bearing. If this is seized ,water would have entered the bellow. Try filling the bellow with oil. Canola or auto trans oil. You will soon know the quality of the existing drive boot. Then let it sit. You are going on to the end of summer. PS I have a seized gimbal bearing moisture or water. A stern drive leg should be removed annually. I bought a CD on Merc on eBay. $0.99 plus postage to Australia. It did not have info on my TRSs' [ got four of them ]. But had full info on all other legs and motors. The more you do, the greater your knowledge."
 
"Fred - Yes, can trim the driv

"Fred - Yes, can trim the drive all the way up. Didn't really think about shaft travel, but sterns are new to me - I have an outboard - and cars.

Okay, so assuming we have "some" travel - we're talking about what? Tenths of an inch? Is it possible we're just moving the bearing? If so, I'd think if it's loose, it should still come out w/ the assembly.

It just seems that we can't break the "seal". The gasket can't possibly be that strong. There is corrosion on the lower two bolts, but once again, I don't see that holding up to this kind of force. I've sprayed PB Blaster on all 6 bolts for last 2 days running in hopes of breaking up anything that might be jamming us up. Downside is it has poured last 2 days when I get home from work, so I haven't had chance to get back out to it. Cutting the bellow open and adding some sort of fluid is next."
 
I am not an expert. The travel

I am not an expert. The travel you have would be the difference between the top of the boot and the extended bottom of the boot. The travel would be between zero and that resulting measurement. The 6 bolts you refer to are the ones that bolt the leg on to the gimbal. They are horizontal approx to [ lets say the propeller shaft]. I thought you had removed and repositioned them allready? If you have the leg tilted to its maximum DO NOT USE THE HYDRO TO LOWER IT DOWN. NB. NB. NB IF THE BEARING IS ON THE SHAFT AND HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ITS GIMBAL HOUSING IT WOULD BE GOOD LUCK TO RE POSITION IT. NB. NB. YOU COULD OR WILL BUST YOUR GIMBAL IF YOU LOWER THE LEG. In my opinion. Concentrate on those six bolts. With out those six bolts removed the leg stays attached as it is manufactured to do.
 
"Fred -
Six nuts are removed

"Fred -
Six nuts are removed - the bolts are not. I'm under the assumption that the bolts are part of the gimbal housing - w/ the nuts off all that is visible is threads. It does appear that the threads "dig" into the bottom of the leg's holes though. I'd suspect the exact opposite - that gravity would pull the leg down and it's the top of the holes the threads would be sunk into, but there is a clear gap there. When I spray PB Blaster into the top 4, it seeps out of the gasket area - great sign!! No such luck on the bottom two - corrosion is too thick. Just gonna have to keep at it I guess.

Now, as for this whole bearing issue and locked motor. Last summer my dad paid a guy to come out and look at it and he said gimbal bearing. He never actually removed the foot though - I'm starting to think he wasn't able to and diagnosed it thinking that it is frozen (which would make sense - foot is stuck and motor doesn't turn).

Well last night I slit the bellow and reached in there w/ my finger and it's full of grease. I can feel the U-joint end of the spline, but that's as far as I can get. Now I'm starting to second guess the original diagnosis. Is it possible to still be frozen if the bellow was good and it's greased? It's irrelevant now - leg definitely has to come off now that I slit the bellow, but I don't think previous suggestions of tranny fluid, etc will help?!?"
 
Post a photo of what you have

Post a photo of what you have done. Are you attempting to remove every thing the leg and gimbal by undoing from inside the boat??? A stern drive leg should be removed anually for servicing. There are owners who replace the boots annually. What six nuts?? For less than $5.00 US dollars that CD will assist you. THE LEAST COSTLY PART OF BOAT OWNERSHIP ARE THE TYRES.
 
"Hmm ...A chain,A tree , make

"Hmm ...A chain,A tree , make sure the boat is on the trailer tight ,Shift into drive Floor it !!

Sorry couldent resist ....Good Luck"
 
""THE LEAST COSTLY PART OF

""THE LEAST COSTLY PART OF BOAT OWNERSHIP ARE THE TYRES."

Manure! Last April I replaced 5 old tires w/new 14" Carlisle trailer tires for $550.
rofl.gif
"
 
"Rich K, that's not a bad

"Rich K, that's not a bad suggestion. I did that exact same thing several years ago, and it worked. I don't think my drive was frozen as bad as this one, but somethings gotta give. . ."
 
"Guy that is a good price, you

"Guy that is a good price, you will get good mileage out of them . Out here a new set of merc bravo duo props are $2400.00 Aust. A lot different than your stomping ground. I look forward to Andrew posting a photo and sighting a repair manual. Fred"
 
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