Logo
FULL SITE MENU

351 Motor hootinb and hollerinb

W

wet_wonder

Contributing Member
"I just changed out the distri

"I just changed out the distributor, put in a Pertronix II electronic ignition, changed plugs and wires.

On turning over, getting a lot of backfires, popping, smoke backing up out of flame arrestor. This goes on for a bunch of turns of the keybut eventually the motor starts running and sounds actually really good at idle in neutral.

When I took it on the water, I couldn't get above 1,200 rpms. If I pushed on the accelerator, the rpms wouldn't increase and I'd start getting a lot of popping and backfiring and sounds like it was ready to stall.

I followed the manual for firing order, Mercruiser Windsor counter rotation, starts 1-8 something going clockwise. And then, running at 1,000 rpms, I hit it with the timing light and have it adjusted to 10 degrees.

Does this sound like firing order is off? Or timing, or both, or something else? Before I redid the ignition, the boat wasn't having these types of symptoms, so it's most likely related to the changes I made to the ignition.

Thanks, Dave"
 
SELOC manual lists firing orde

SELOC manual lists firing order for the MCM223 V-8 351 CID as: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
 
"Guy, I'm getting confuse

"Guy, I'm getting confused on the firing order.

The intake manifold on this motor displays 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, just like you said. This order matches the manual specs for a left-hand rotation Ford V-8.

But this motor is right-hand, and I know for certain because I just replaced the distributor and it required a right-hand gear. The manual shows, for RIGHTHAND rotation, 1-8-4-5-6-2-7-3.

So I'm confused. How am I reading this wrong?"
 
""...Mercruiser Windsor co

""...Mercruiser Windsor counter rotation, starts 1-8 something going clockwise."

Check that again; I thought standard rotation engine distributor firing order was clockwise???"
 
"The wiki site there says that

"The wiki site there says that distributor rotation is counter clockwise. Here is the page from the online manual I downloaded from iboats.com that has firing order. Ford V-8's are CC. I have the Ford Mercruiser 233"r" (right-hand). Can you tell from this page?

It seems like right-hand starts with the 1-8 according to the manual, but on my manifold it shows the order for left-hand, 1-3. Which do you think should be correct.

288704.jpg
Firing Order
 
"Well, either you have the wro

"Well, either you have the wrong manifold or you are using the wrong firing order. Since both engines' dist. turn CCW does it matter which dist. gear you have?

SOME OF YOU FORD FELLAS jump in here; I'm just a theory man on engines."
 
"If you look at the front of t

"If you look at the front of the motor, water pump end, and the crank turns clockwise, the motor is standard rotation (left hand) and the firing order is 13726548. Distributor rotation is counter clockwise.
If the motor is right hand, the reverse is true. (Except the distributer which always turns CCW on Fords)

Motors are deemed Right or Left handed looking back at the flywheel or the output shaft."
 
"Thanks Chris, I'll double

"Thanks Chris, I'll double check tomorrow.

Guy, I see your point about distrib gear and CC rotation for either LH or RH, but I know they produce opposite direction distributor gears for the 351W, so I don't know. Thanks for helping with the rotation."
 
"I don't understand it, bu

"I don't understand it, but in looking at the motor from the prop, over the flywheel to the pully, the front of the motor is turning clockwise, making it left-hand. Yet the model stamp on the motor is "233r," which according to what I've found, the "r" means right-hand. So I don't know. I redid the firing order as 13726548 and tried the ignition a few times and still got a back fire though the spark arrestor. Tomorrow I'll try jiggling the timing via the distributor -

Could a timing adjustment be the answer this time around?"
 
"If what you say is correct, t

"If what you say is correct, the motor is left hand rotation.
It is very, very unusual to have a right hand rotation in a single engine installation."
 
"Sounds like you did everythin

"Sounds like you did everything right as far as the install, did you get the right Pertronix Kit? I think it's the distributor brand that determines which kit on the Ford V8.

Is everything original in the boat? Or could the block have been used for a rebuilt motor with standard rotation. Lotta cracked blocks out there and need for donation motors. Unless you know the history of the boat anything is possible."
 
"[b]I don't understand it,

"I don't understand it, but in looking at the motor from the prop, over the flywheel to the pully, the front of the motor is turning clockwise, ....I think clockwise from the rear makes it right handed. Maybe you should try your description, again, just so we all get on the same page. Preferably using the standard, as Chris mentioned early...looking at the flywheel, it spins (C)CW..."
 
"Today I met with a boat mecha

"Today I met with a boat mechanic friend who has a slip near me. We went through everything, first finding that it is a left-hand standard rotation. Then we pulled the plug from cylinder 1 and confirmed from compression that the rotor was pointing correctly, and then confirmed that the firing ordering 13756248 was setup correctly.

So that left two possibilities as to why it isn't starting.

First is that the coil is getting 12 volts, and he suggested that there should be a ballast resistor taking it down to 7 volts. So I have that coming in tomorrow.

Second - I called Pertronix and they said that when the symptom is failure to start, it often means that the distributor isn't grounded well enough to provide grounding for the Ignitor II ignition plate. They said that points are more tolerant to an iffy ground, and that I should pull the distributor holding bracket and clean it up and then voltmeter verify that it is a good ground.

So I'm going to try both tomorrow and have a pretty good feeling that it will work by the end of the day."
 
"Well, with Pertronix, its&#39

"Well, with Pertronix, its' best to have 12V at the coil, that's how I run mine. but I could be wrongged"
 
"The engine rotation is always

"The engine rotation is always determined from the front of the engine (waterpump side)
Read the coil for the ballast resister needed or already build in the coil it says "12v" on the coil.
Do not forget!!
The shift interrupter switch on the shift lingage is a "Normaly open type" so, when you shift out of gear the switch grounds the (old)breaker point - wire to ground, short cutting the breaker points so the engine stalls.
Now, with the electronic (point less) ignition you need a constant ground but need to interrupt the ignition + wire to make the engine to stall while shifting out of gear.
You will have to re-route the ignition + wire through an "Normaly closed" interruptor switch to the ignition coil + terminal."
 
"In the above I messed up... E

"In the above I messed up... Engine rotation is determined from the fly-wheel. Ford has counter-clockwise turning ignition rotor that meshed up my thinking during writing?!, I guess I got old
The rest should be correct though hahaha."
 
"Looking from the flywheel for

"Looking from the flywheel forward, the pully on the alternator is turning clockwise. The intake manifold has the firing order printed for standard rotation 13726548.

DESPITE ALL THIS, I finally got results when I used the right hand counter roation order 18456273. I don't understand it, but that's the correct order.

TO ADD TO THAT, I had to set the timing way in advance according to the timing markings to get it to run correctly. It's about 60 degrees BTDC now at idle according to the marks. So something there is wrong per the marks.

The result of installing the electronic ignition is that the motor is much more responsive to the accelerator. When you hit the gas it bangs.

The reason I replaced the ignition system is because the boat wasn't getting up to the spec'd rpm at WOT. I found that the spring weights were broken, the gear on the distributor was a little torn. So I replaced the entire distributor, upgraded to elec ignition and a flamethrower coil, changed out the plugs and wires.

Yet, after redoing the ignition system, and even with the bang acceleration from the elec ignition, I'm still having the same problem of not getting up to spec'd rpms. Compression is good.

Any ideas on that?"
 
Something is off - it shouldn&

Something is off - it shouldn't run at 60 BTDC...

Suggest verifying the timing marks are accurate. Use a positive stop and verify TDC (balancer = 0 degrees on the marks.

I'd also verify the cam gear hasn't slipped throwing the valve timing off. (Same end result as the timing chain stretching and jumping the sprocket on a standard rotation setup).
 
Back
Top